I'm not sure about the spelling of Cyphadeous (sai-fa-dee-us?)
Who is this mysterious Jedi Master which supposedly made the original order of Jango Fett clones 10 years ago? I sorta got lost in the whole explanation, why was everyone so indifferent about why and who made this army in the first place?
i believe they were referring to sidious, who is darth sidious, who is chancellor palpatine in episode II. they refer to him as dead, but i believe that the jedi council was just making that up to hide something darker.
I don't think they were indifferent. It's just that they were busy conducting an investigation, and the fact that this jedi master supposedly ordered this clone army posthumously was another piece of the puzzle they were trying to solve.
I wouldn't worry about it too much, even I kinda lost the plot with it in episode:1- although I always knew Sideous=Palpatine. It did get explained to me, but I forgot how it worked out. You can tell he ain't up to no good anyway ;) Just look at the comment he makes to Ani about being the best Jedi he's ever seen
I think sifadyas is a different person because the jedi would be able to realize palpatine and sifadyas were the same.
Cyfadius is a different person. Simply used as a cover up name to create the clone army and then he was killed so they couldn't find much amiss.
10 years ago was ep1. Palpatine/Sidious must have ordered the clones after the events of ep1.
Didn't Jango say he was working for Tyrannus?
i was under the impression Syphadius was either another "made-up" name from palpatine, or that it was suppoused to be Sidious and the Caminos coupldnt pronounce it for ****.
I figure heck, the plot really doesnt make sense, so why bother too much with the particulars. I felt the same way with Episode 1.
If you remember obi wan said that syphadius was dead longer than 10 years ago
Wasn't it mentioned that he was on the Jedi Council somewhere? So he couldn't very well be just some made up name then.
Maybe he was a Jedi Master that got seduced by the dark side and is now palpatine, but then the other council member would recognize him.
Another theory is that palpatine was using him, this mystery character, the same way he is using Dooku. Then palpatine simply gets rid of him once he's done, leaving no evidance to trace a link to himself and ruin his plans. What do you guys think?
Obiwan actually gave two dates in the movie, one was over ten years, and the other was a bit less than ten (from memory).
Anyway here goes:
Palpatine = Darth Sideous, Sypherdeous
Count Dooku = Darth Tyrannus
The reason that the Jedi don't know that Palpatine is evil/whats going on, is that the dark side is clouding the jedi's vision. An entire scene is devoted to this, when they discuss whether they should tell the senate that the jedi aren't effective anymore. They choose not to because at the moment, it's only the sith lord that knows they are weak, and others may take advantage of it.
Quite a lot is explained throughout the movie, but you just have to listen for it.
Yeah I noticed that scene and as far as why the council wouldn'T recognize a former member is maybe why they put emphasis on a character who was a changling. Now I'm really reaching here of course but thats the only thing i could think of as to why they wouldn't recognize him.
His name is spelt Sifo Dias, I believe, I know it was two separate names. It DOES sound an awful lot like Sidious, which is quite likely.
So basically the explanation is that Palpatine = Sidious = Sifa Dias = Jedi that was thought to be killed 10 years ago ?
This doesn't make sense!
My head hurts!
Where do they think Palpatine came from then - unless Sifa Dias and Palpatine were never in the same place at the same time?
This works once Sifa Dias is supposedly killed - but while he is meant to be alive - it doesn't quite work..
I'm happy with Palpatine = Sidious. But this whole Sifa Dias thing is driving me nuts.
This is all far too confusing.
Palpatine=clone of Darth Sideoous. There. The End. My hear hurts. Stupid plot holes that don't make sense.
OK- seriously, if I remember correctly that someone said to me once when I didn't get the whole Palpatine/Sideous thing coz I was so losted over it, Palpatine is a smoke screen or some crap, he's not real, a haloucination (blah@my crappy spelling) or something or other. I don't know whether that's true or not, that's why I'm still confused. They're the same person but not :confused:
I give up- it makes a funky story. However, if Sifadous (the good jedi?) is Palpatine and Sifedous was thought to be killed 10years ago, wouldn't people have noticed when Palpatine rocks up a few years later and looks exactly the same as Sifadous? I mean I don't think they have plastic surgeons in the galaxy far, far away... do they????
Ah yes, the SifoDyas Condundrum (wow, that almost sounds collegiate!)...
It is a tad bit confusing in both the book and the movie. The way I saw it, SifoDyas = Sidious = Palpatine, but as others had pointed out, this would make little sense given the fact that Palpatine works so closely with the Jedi Council. Surely one of them would have known that Palpatine was actually the supposedly dead Jedi.
I think a lot of this could have been avoided by having a bit of dialogue between Mace and Yoda or Mace, Yoda and Obi-Wan about SifoDyas being a fictious name. However, instead of doing that, they all admitted that SifoDyas was, in fact, a former Jedi, which makes the whole durn thing confuzzling.
IMO, if they had said that SifoDyas was someone who had never been a Jedi and was impersonating one to the Kaminans, it would have left the Sidious/Palpatine issue in tact and they would have still had an ironclad reason why Kamino had been removed from the archives because Dooku left the order around the same time as SifoDyas's 'death'.
The only OTHER possible explination is that Dooku went to Kamino on order from Sidious and presented himself as Master SifoDyas. That could possibly stay consistant with the time frame, but, again, gets lost because Obi-Wan, Mace and Yoda appear to confirm that SifoDyas was, in fact, a former Jedi...
Ack.. my head is spinning now.
aieljafar is absolutely right, screw it
pffffft
how obvious is it?
dooku killed sifo dias 10 years ago (which is when he left the jedi order) asone of his first missions for palpatine
he ripped off his jedi ID or whatever and then went to the kaminoans under the name of sifo dias (the guy he killed) and ordered the clone army as per palpatines instructions and paid for them using palpatines funds (which, being a dark lord of the sith and with his connections with the trade federation and stuff , would be considerable)
the kaminoans are so far away from the centralized republic that they might have heard of a jedi master called sifo dias but not of his (back then) recent death
the look mace and yoda give each other when they hear the name makes me think they knew about him getting killed under suspicious circumstances
-patch
...and Dooku, before he left the Jedi, erased reference to Kamino from the Jedi Archives. The system vanishes from all records (apart from, no doubt, the Trade Federation) and for 10 years the Clone Army is built waiting for the day that Palpatine needs them...
Guys...
What if Palpatine is not Darth Sidious...
the clones were odered 10 years before ep2. and that momet palpatine became chancellor (sp?) he ordered the clones under the name of a dead jedi..... that is all... no more and no less.
something still puzzles me tho.... Jango was hired to stand for the clones 10 years before that...... he was hired by Darth tyranus.... a.k.a. count dooku..... BUT.... there can only be 2 sith at a time... darth sidious... has always been there,... but 10 years before that... Darth Maul was there too.... how can Jango be hired by Dooku then??? casue that would mean there were 2 sith.... what do you think..
Originally posted by Topdan
Guys...
What if Palpatine is not Darth Sidious...
Then you want us to reject everything that was shown in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.
Emperor Palpatine was a Dark Lord of the Sith - the Sith Master, Vader as his successful apprentice. This is apparent by the relationship shown between the two - Vader calling the Emperor his 'Master', and the Emperor opening a can of whoop-ass on Luke.
Further, this is also asking to forget about Sidious in Episode 1, assuring that the Senate would do nothing about the issue on Naboo (who else could make this claim but someone preparing to be the head of the Senate?) and Dooku's limited lines in AotC where he states that the Senate is under the control of the Dark Lords of the Sith. Dooku goes so far as to talk about Darth Sidious being aligned with the Trade Federation's Viceroy during the happenings that made up TPM.
So, logic only concludes that Palpatine must be Sidious. Darth Maul was his apprentice; Dooku was his servant and Anakin becomes his most successful apprentice - and he is later referred to as Emperor Palpatine. I think that by now there should be no doubt, at all, that Palpatine=Sidious.
Dooku obviously became Sidious' apprentice after the demise of Darth Maul, his first tasks being, I suspect :
1. to eliminate Sipha Dias
2. to enlist Jango Fett for the DNA supply
3. to order the Clone Army
4. to erase all record of Kamino in the archives
5. to leave the Jedi Order and commence moves towards separatism in disgruntled systems
well prolly happened right after Ep I cus Dooku left the council right after Qui Gon died aka Maul dying too....
heh ur explanation is the best so far....but it doesn't seem nearly as clear in the movie...not intuitive at all....
the whole Jango/Dooku thing confuses me too...Jango Helps build the clone army...then leaves and helps build the droid army? but then the armies fight each other? why? Dooku is explaining to his allies about overthrowing the republic..but he help build the clone army to defend the republic? That whole duality thing is way hard to follow in the movie...another one of my gripes with it....
Originally posted by Baal Fett
well prolly happened right after Ep I cus Dooku left the council right after Qui Gon died aka Maul dying too....
heh ur explanation is the best so far....but it doesn't seem nearly as clear in the movie...not intuitive at all....
the whole Jango/Dooku thing confuses me too...Jango Helps build the clone army...then leaves and helps build the droid army? but then the armies fight each other? why? Dooku is explaining to his allies about overthrowing the republic..but he help build the clone army to defend the republic? That whole duality thing is way hard to follow in the movie...another one of my gripes with it.... beacause that way.. palpatine gets in a legal way the fulkl power to do what he likes....in the senate and with the republic
The whole point of building the droid army is to present a threat to the Republic, so as to allow Palpatine to be given emergency powers. He then utilises the Clone Army that has secretly been built to put down the insurgents, thereby eliminating those that have been bankrolling his plans. He will appear as the heroic Chancellor who saved the Republic when bureaucracy was killing it. It will seem only right that he is asked to maintain his powers for the good of the Republic, by which time it will be too late....
it wasnt just jango playing both sides it was dooku. Jango was just following dooku around
The Empire has always been compared with Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 40s. This movies brings the comparison between the two even closer - Hitler came to power by sending his Stormtroopers(!!!) to create chaos in Germany, convincing the parliament to give him Emergency Powers(!!!!!) that effectively made him a dictator.
It can be clearly seen that Sidious is one evil bloke with huge plans. He causes the separitists to create a droid army for use against the Republic, then uses that as a way to convince the senate to give him emergency powers. Then he uses the clone army that he ordered 10 years before under a false name, masquerading (or Dooku masquerading, it doesn't matter) as a dead Jedi. He obviously has huge plans for Episode 3
His name is spelled Sifo-Dyas.
I am almost 100% sure that that is Palpatine.
Originally posted by Perniciosus
Ah yes, the SifoDyas Condundrum (wow, that almost sounds collegiate!)...
It is a tad bit confusing in both the book and the movie. The way I saw it, SifoDyas = Sidious = Palpatine, but as others had pointed out, this would make little sense given the fact that Palpatine works so closely with the Jedi Council. Surely one of them would have known that Palpatine was actually the supposedly dead Jedi.
I think a lot of this could have been avoided by having a bit of dialogue between Mace and Yoda or Mace, Yoda and Obi-Wan about SifoDyas being a fictious name. However, instead of doing that, they all admitted that SifoDyas was, in fact, a former Jedi, which makes the whole durn thing confuzzling.
IMO, if they had said that SifoDyas was someone who had never been a Jedi and was impersonating one to the Kaminans, it would have left the Sidious/Palpatine issue in tact and they would have still had an ironclad reason why Kamino had been removed from the archives because Dooku left the order around the same time as SifoDyas's 'death'.
The only OTHER possible explination is that Dooku went to Kamino on order from Sidious and presented himself as Master SifoDyas. That could possibly stay consistant with the time frame, but, again, gets lost because Obi-Wan, Mace and Yoda appear to confirm that SifoDyas was, in fact, a former Jedi...
Ack.. my head is spinning now.
By the way, Sifo-Dyas was a Jedi Master, serving on the Jedi council, being a "leading member."
I agree with you that Sifo-Dyas is Palpatine and Sidious simply because that is the obvious explanation. The dialogue between Mace and Yoda basically gives slack to all kinds of explanations, because they cannot see anything happening with the Force. Also, the argument that the Council would have noticed that Palpatine had the Force shadow of Sifo-Dyas is flawed (as are similar theories paralleling that one). They obviously didn't see his rise to power as Emperor, and could not tell he had force power at ALL.
*I have to switch computers I will finish this post in a few minutes.*
Originally posted by thrEEpaGe
His name is spelled Sifo-Dyas.
I am almost 100% sure that that is Palpatine.
How does that work... The console thinks he's dead, but they work closely with Palpatine. There's a rather large whole in the logic that states palp=Sifo-Dyas.
I mean, if Sifo-Dyas was a full fledged Jedi, then why don't any of the current Jedi refer to Palpatine as Sifo-Dyas? They would have to know it's the same person. And Sifo-Dyas died aroudn 10 years ago according to Ep2, or about the time of Ep1. Palpatine was a senator prior to this, and I don't think a Jedi could be a senator and member of the Jedi Console.
Oh and my own personal theory about where Dokuu came from.
Granted there can only be 2 sith at a time... But I wouldn't be surprised if the Master has serveral people lined up to take the apprentice's place if needed. People that are on the verge of being turned to the dark side, but not quite there yet. Dokuu could of been one of those people.
Follow along and see if this makes sense.
Sidious basicly rased Maul from the time he was a baby, making him into a powerfull sith warrior. Durning Ep1 Maul kills Qui-Gon, and then is killed by Obi-Wan.
Sidious now needs a new lacky/apprentice and needs one quick, things are starting to happen and he doesn't have 20 years to rase a new sith warrior from childhood. So instead he pushes Dokuu over the edge and turns him to the darkside. Dokuu was a full fledged Jedi Master, so he wouldn't need much training by Sidious to be a powerful sith warrior.
It is Sifo-Dyas, straight from the script.
I believe there was a real Jedi master named Sifo-Dyas, but after he died Sidious used his name to place an order for the clone army. Maybe Sidious even killed him in order to use his name.
Another reason for playing both sides is that yes you get the republics clone army, but the commerce guild,trade federation and clans, are developing a planetery weapon as you seen the deathstar which the republic would create, but loyal sciencetist to the sepratist would develop the weapon to destroy the republic.
So that and the clones gives the most powerful position the Sith.
Sifa dius or however you spell it has to have existed, for if he died, how could you not be able to tell he was palpatine. Dooku is playing both sides because of what I explained in my previous post under the title of "about qui gon in episode 2 ..." Go read that post and u will understand the whole scenario with Dooku and Qui Gon and the whole shabang
This is all a little confusing for me too but here's my take:
Palpatine, Sidious, and Sifo-Dyas are all connected but maybe not the same people.
The council knows something about Sifo-Dyas that they're not saying. The silence and look between Yoda and Windu was very telling.
But, Why wasn't Sifo-Dyas on the council for EP1?
But, then Sifo-Dyas can't directly BE Sidious if Sifo-Dyas WAS on the council because Sidious looks exactly like Palpatine so they would have recognized him.
But, the names Sifo-Dyas and Sidious are too close for them to be separate people.
And then there's Sidious \ Palpatine who I think are separate people. There's no way the Dark-Side could have clouded the Jedi's THAT much that the most powerful force users in the Galaxy (Yoda, Windu, Anakin) could not feel a disturbance. The Dark-Side could probably cloud it enough that they can't see WHAT is happening or other details, but they MUST be able to feel a disturbance at the least. With this in mind, I think one of them is a clone of the other.
But, somehow Palpatine develops force powers VERY late in life.
Like I said it's all pretty confusing and at this point there's holes in everybodies theories.
Originally posted by DarthNoodles
But, the names Sifo-Dyas and Sidious are too close for them to be separate people.
But, somehow Palpatine develops force powers VERY late in life.
Ummm how many people in the US have the last name of Smith? Basing your arugment purely on how much their names sound alike is kinda flimsy.
And I think there's way to much pointing to the fact that Palpatine and Sidious are the same person to be debated. Why would Sidious setup someone else as Emperor, and what happend to him? How did Vader become the apprentice of Palpatine, if Palpatine isn't a sith master before Anakin turns to the dark side?
No the idea they're not the same person puts way to many holes into the whole story.
Its pretty obvious to me whats happening in the story, Sidious is playing both sides against each other (separatists and Republic) to get them to go to war with each other (clone war). This war will give him (palpatine) emergency powers while at the same time weakening the republic. With the republic in disarray from the clone wars he will consolidate his power and make himself emperor. I don't think he ever wanted the separatists to succeed, but it was part of his plan to gain power.
ANd of course he gets the deathstar plans from the sepratist.
This is a possible idea that came to my mind as I was reading these posts.
Sifo Dias could have been a name Darth Maul used to order the clones for Darth Sideous. It makes more sense when you think that they say he died 10 years ago and TPM was 10 years before this one and darth maul dies at the end.
The only thing that contradicts this is that the jedi said they knew a Sifo Dias and if i remember right they had no idea who darth maul was when they saw him.. but there are ways for it to still work out regardless of this fact.
Thought i would contribute my idea even though it might not nescisarly be a strong one, it is still one to consider.
I believe that Sifa-Dyas was killed by either Dooku or Sidious, so that his name could be used to order the creation of the clone army. I also believe that Dooku is trying to play both sides as well, so that he can get rid of Sidious and maybe take his place or something. Why else would he tell Obi Wan about a dark lord of the sith controlling the Senate. He knows that Obi Wan could possibly refuse his proposal to join him, and then Obi Wan would tell the Jedi Council what Dooku has said. And of course Obi Wan does tell the Council, because at the end of the movie, when Mace Windu and Yoda are talking, they both agree that they should keep a close eye on the Senate. So, if Dooku is trying to get rid of Sidious, then that's all the more reason for Sidious to get Anakin to kill Dooku in Episode 3 and take his place, which I believe will happen.
Sifo-Dyas= Darth Maul ????
darth maul died 10 years ago, which is the same time Sifo-Dyas died
Yes, he get the death star plans from the separatists on geonosis. However, i have heard many people ask "how come it took them so long to build the 1st ds if the 2nd was built in a couple of years?" I think the answer is pretty simple. Those were just plans for the station, it hadn't started being built then! It is possible to have plans for something without building it. Its obvious palpatine comes over these plans later (possibly episode 3) and as emperor orders it to be built.
Originally posted by DarthNoodles
And then there's Sidious \ Palpatine who I think are separate people. There's no way the Dark-Side could have clouded the Jedi's THAT much that the most powerful force users in the Galaxy (Yoda, Windu, Anakin) could not feel a disturbance. The Dark-Side could probably cloud it enough that they can't see WHAT is happening or other details, but they MUST be able to feel a disturbance at the least. With this in mind, I think one of them is a clone of the other.
But, somehow Palpatine develops force powers VERY late in life.
Like I said it's all pretty confusing and at this point there's holes in everybodies theories.
Man do you not know a SINGLE thing about the differences between the light and dark side? The dark side cannot be sensed, they cloud the minds of jedi, and jedi cannot see into the future when they are clouded like the Jedi council has been ever since Sidious showed up, so yes, SIDIOUS AND PALPATINE HAVE TO BE THE SAME GUY GENIUS!
ok, they said that sifodeus was dead, but remember in the original trilogy they also said luke's father was dead. Instead, he had just turned to the dark side...maybe same thing here? I seem to like the explaination that he's not dead...
Just...uhh I went to see the movie two times, and as we got subtitles I could see the spelling of the name
It's Sifa Dyas
Just so everyone knows ;)
Sypherdeous was probalbly just 1 of the lost twenty and probably just got killed after he ordered the clone army
Palpantine ordered the troops on Sefi Dios's name after epsiode 1, but if he was ever a real Jedi he probably died beofre Episode 1 even started.
they are the same person
the music #'s are the smae for the both of them
and their accent is the same
AND IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY THEY BOTH HAVE THE SAME BUT CHIN
did anyone else notice papatne was rather pale in this movie