I got back from my trip.
http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/smile.gif)
I spent nearly two weeks of my time in a place called Combermere, Ontario. I honestly think it may be the most Christian place on this planet. It is a community of Christians who swear their lives to God (they even swear celibacy) and basically live on a commune. They make or grow nearly everything they need, and simply live, as well as training people for their other complexes in various cities and countries.
Their overall name is Madonna House, and they have houses all over the place that deal with various needs (training more people, taking care of the poor, etc.)
If you can ever find some time to go up there as a guest (they don't charge anything or put time limits, they just request you to be willing to work) it will be something you will never regret. You've mentioned you want to get as close to first-century Christianity as you can. Well this is it. The Holy Spirit exudes from the place in ways I've never experienced. BTW, I've known of its existence most of my life (my great aunt is one of the directors and my parents have both spent time there). Its incredible.
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"To believe anything at all is to believe it true. To believe something true is to believe that whatever is incompatible with it must be false. And to believe somebody else's belief false is implicitly intolerant. Therefore, if intolerance is an evil, belief itself-in anything-is an evil. So the only way we can get rid of intolerance is to prohibit belief. Which, of course, would be very intolerant indeed."
-Ted Byfield
sounds cool, Conor. But i have a thing against these Catholic or Christian "communes". I honestly don't think God meant for us to be holed up together like that, apart from the rest of the world. We weren't meant to hide our light under a bushel barrel, we were meant to spread it with the world.
Did you guys watch that show on ABC last night called, Searching for Jesus? I found it very interesting. They interviewed several scholars who generally agree that much of the gospels were fabricated, and that most Christians misinterpret the meaning of what they read in the Bible. They even suggested that Judas wasn't a real person, but was created by the gospel-writers to demonize the Jews (Judas means Jew in Jewish).
Further, they say that it wasn't the Jewish preists who convinced Pontus Pilat to crucify Jesus, but it was Pontus himself. But all accounts, the Roman governor was a real bastard. And officially, Jesus was charged with treason as his crime, and put to death for it. He may not have even gotten any trial at all. Apparently Pontus wanted the Passover holiday to go smoothly, and when Jesus came to town and started making trouble in the temple and preaching to the crowds, Pontus got nervous and threatened to massacre many people. Apparently the Jewish preists convinced him to hold off, and they would retrieve Jesus for him. He apparently agreed.
The odd thing is that Jesus was apparently not very well known in his day. Even during his last days in Jerusalem, not many people know who he was. And during his crucifixtion, these scholars submit that not many people were there to witness it other than his mother because his followers all ran off. Also, during crucifixtions, apparently the Romans would leave the body out on the cross for the crows to eat in order to send a stronger message to would-be trouble makers. Something to think about.
Lastly, they have a fascinating theory about his resurrection. These scholars say that it's hard to continue your movement when your leader is crucified, so his followers had to come up with some way to continue on. Typically people would either just stop, or find a new Messiah to follow. Apparently there were quite a few Mesianic movements back then. Anyway, during this time period there were these pagan-like cults that they called the Mystery Religions, which had concepts of resurrection, so these religious scholars theorize that Jesus's followers used the exact same tales used by the Mystery religions and simply superimposed Jesus's name in the story.
All these scholars generally had a very high opinion of Jesus though, and they talked about the things he did, such as championing the poor, etc.
It was a totally captivating story, hosted by Peter Jennings. I wish I could get the whole thing on tape, because I think I only watched about 2/3 of it. Anyone else see it?
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VagabondNomad on the Zone...
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players...
Check it out:
http://abcnews.go.com/onair/jesus/)
This too:
http://www.beliefnet.com/frameset.asp?pageLoc=/story/29/story_2964_1.html&boardID=3658)
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VagabondNomad on the Zone...
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players...
[This message has been edited by Vagabond (edited June 27, 2000).]
Conor--
Welcome back--sounds like a great place for a sabbatical (which I sorely need but can't afford to take).
Someday...
I've been absent around here lately because I've been posting in a Trek forum where I'm getting some very aggressive assaults on my God and science ideas (which is exactly what I want). I need to put the concept to the test before it sees print, and the discussion had sort of trailed off around here, so...
But I consider this forum my home, and still feel kind of weird over there.
Vagabond--
I only saw a half hour of the special, but I taped the whole thing and plan to see it all soon. I would not base my worldview on anything Peter Jennings (or his selected sources) would say, but I do want to hear what he has to say.
--wiz
Hey man, maybe you could make a copy for and send it to me. I'd pay for the materials and shipping, of course :^)
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VagabondNomad on the Zone...
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players...
Hmm, I think they have it on tape here (the library I'm at right now). I saw part of it on tv.
Yes, a critical scholar's view of the historical Jesus. Very interesting. I've seen other tapes in the series.
If you saw John Dominic Crossan (the white haired Irish guy with the glasses), he came to speak at my university in the last year.
Kurgan
Ike,
I honestly don't think God meant for us to be holed up together like that, apart from the rest of the world. We weren't meant to hide our light under a bushel barrel, we were meant to spread it with the world. That's been a problem theologians have wrestled with since at least the middle ages...
Do we live simply, as some early Christians did, together, sharing what we have and remaining apart from a corrupting world, or do we go out into it, to suffer with it, and share what we have with the world?
I have heard great arguments for both. I would say that however you feel called to serve, and however you can serve God best, you should pursue.
I have no problem with the commune idea, as long as nobody gets any crazy ideas like mass suicide or mass drug abuse (as some unfortunate groups were led to by corrupt leaders).
Recall, Jesus said many would come saying "Lord, Lord" and not be from God. Many false prophets will come. By their fruits will you know them...
Kurgan
[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited June 27, 2000).]
Sounds like a really cool place to visit, Vagabond, ill have to check it out sometime.
Wizz, could you post a link to that trek-site's board, id like to give it a look or two, i foyu dont mind posting it.
Thanx,GOD bless,
-Calypso
Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!!!
Dude, you got me confused with Conor. I'm one of the least like people on this board to go to a religious retreat...not that there's anything wrong with that...
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VagabondNomad on the Zone...
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players...
Vagabond--
I'm not set up to make a copy of the tape, sorry. But I bet one could be ordered via the ABC website.
Calypso--
Here's the link to the current God thread at trekbbs.com:
http://trekbbs.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000200.html)
--wiz
Ike--
Hey, man, long time no...
Re:
But i have a thing against these Catholic or Christian "communes". I honestly don't think God meant for us to be holed up together like that, apart from the rest of the world. We weren't meant to hide our light under a bushel barrel, we were meant to spread it with the world.
I agree with you in principle, of course.
The way Conor described this fellowship, however, sounds pretty healthy and outgoing:
...as well as training people for their other complexes in various cities and countries.
Their overall name is Madonna House, and they have houses all over the place that deal with various needs (training more people, taking care of the poor, etc.)
I don't get the impression that these people hide their light.
I want to underscore that I agree with you that Christians are to be in the world, though not of it.
--wiz
good point, wiz. I don't remember seeing that when I read it. selective reading, i guess.
but i do know of "communes" that are just people living apart from the rest of the world, and I don't think that they do all of that. I don't like the idea of that at all.
Agreed.
--wiz
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"He is not a hnau," said the hrossa.
"What is a hnau?" asked Ransom.
"You are hnau. I am hnau. The seroni are hnau. The pfifltriggi are hnau."
--C.S. LEWIS, Out of the Silent Planet
wiz, ya I bet so too. I'm not going to pay them $20 for something they broadcasted for free on television.
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VagabondNomad on the Zone...
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players...
I feel their biggest purpose is for the guests. Lots of guests go through the place (often under the most unusual and unexpected circumstances). One girl didn't give a fig about God, heard about this place, and she managed to open herself up to the Spirit there and is now a devoted Christian.
It's changing lives, including some that would sometimes be considered beyond changing. I met people there (both guests and members) from Chile, Brazil, Russia, Grenada and a number of other countries. I definitely want to go again, given any chance. I don't think I've encountered so much joy before.
http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/smile.gif)
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"To believe anything at all is to believe it true. To believe something true is to believe that whatever is incompatible with it must be false. And to believe somebody else's belief false is implicitly intolerant. Therefore, if intolerance is an evil, belief itself-in anything-is an evil. So the only way we can get rid of intolerance is to prohibit belief. Which, of course, would be very intolerant indeed."
-Ted Byfield
I'm going to have to agree with Wizz on the commune thing.
BTW, Wizz, thanx for the link, 'pretiate it.
GOD bless,
-Calypso