some baby foods are fresh and wholesome, but many are simply the means for manufacturers to get rid of things they couldn't sell any other way. in the past it would have been harder to do this because people could tell if something terrible was added in. it would just sort of float around and you could look in and run screaming. but there's an excellent way to mask it all now. insert a long polymer at the factory, one that swells when water is added, so much and so burstingly, that it stretches over the various added substances making them impossible to distinguish from the food. as an extra bonus, the wondrously swelling polymer allows you to add in so much zero-cost water that it is often the main ingredient in baby foods. one slight problem is that the polymer that does this swelling and making tastes, to be honest, like wallpaper paste. to cover up the taste, tomato pureeis often used as it is easily obtained, at conveniently low cost, from tomatos that are too decrepit or just too bruised to be sold seperately. the bright coloring also helps with the second problem, which is that the paste itself comes out a revolting gray when it's first mixed with the water. to bulk it up, boiled and skimmed pigs' feet extract is often used, though in a pinch the scooped inner pith of discarded fruit can be added, too. chalk is often added next. it tastes about as you'd expect (though it beats the wallpaper paste), but it is white enough to mask any opf the gray gloop that shows through the tomato coloring. vacuumed straight from a schoolroom eraser it would be too dusty to swallow. but with the polymers of the wallpaper paste, it mixes so smoothly with the water that is the main ingredient that it can be swallowed without a problem. baby rice especially is color-masked this way, and it can be up to one-third straight, scooped-up white chalk. the paste and water slurry now looks better, but it's still not a selling point to say on the label that chalk dust, pigs' feet, water, and paste are the main ingredients. something more obviously enticing needs to be added to sell the product. often that's meat taken from the animals we recognize as usual sources. but it's rarely taken from the parts of the animal we're used to. cattle for example are largely fermentation chambers on legs and so have hundreds of pounds of mucus-lined digestive tubing inside. they need this to hold their gallons of bacteria and plant fibers in place until they are excreted. such mucosal tubing would also be hard to sell if it were labeled, but baby food has often been exempt from any requirement to label the exact part of the animal the meat has come from. bowels accordingly are one of the more common meat sources used in baby food. they are frequently put in great compression units with other hard-to-sell fragments--brains, testicles, and nostrils are especially common--and they're all blended, squeezed, and cut into tiny cubes for mixing. if enough fat has been stripped off, the result can be labeled as "lean" meat. sugar needs to be added to cover its taste. kids wouldn't mind straight granulated sugar, but parents are fussy. manufacturers, accordingly, often process fruit juices to yield a product that's chemically identical to ordinary sugar but can usually be heaped in without the dreaded s-word ever appearing on the list. the mix is almost done, but it lacks the right texture. the bowels, nostrils, etcetera, that came out of the compression units don't ooze with the connective fats that more normal meats would. frothy chunks of animal fat get slopped in, to help along with vegetable fats as needed. a few herbs, an attractive label, some iron shavings to add mineral content, and there you are. usually that's it. but there are also some jars labeled as having extra ingredients which make them "suitable for the hungrier child." Sometimes it's processed cotton shavings or other cellulose pulp that goes in, other times it's just dollops of the dextrin glue used on the back of stamps. both sound odd, but they're substances which swell extremely quickly once you mix them with water. put the full water, chalk, bowels, pigs' feet, paste, sugar, fat and stamp glue and cotton pulp mixture into a baby's mouth, and you can trust that he'll be left quite full.
...
and now a liquid which contains embalming fluid, varnish solvent, vinegar, and nail polish remover...and a certain amount of real orange juice, too. the problem is entirely due to that last ingredient. orange trees are so good at soaking up groundwater and transferring it to their little dangling fruits, that it costs a lot to ship an entire orange to market. it makes much more sense to squeezed to oranges near the place where they're harvested, and transport only the lighter-weight concentrate. when a local canner recieves the shipment, it's accompanied by a manifest stating that, say, 12,000 gallons of water have been extracted. this is where the problems begin. an honest person would say yes, i must put back the 12,000 gallons and not have a single drop more. the reason i can't add any more is that if i did, what i've recieved would go further, and be divided into more cans and jars, and that would give us excess profits, and that would be unjust. since not all canners are this saintly, extra water is often added--a few thousand gallons, often thinning it down by about 15 percent. but chemistry is an unforgiving science, especially when keen-eyed government inspectors are on your back. the water that's added back in can't be just any water. natural water has a different isotope mix from what accumulates inside a fruit tree--inspectors can easily detect that--so the canner or bottler has to order what's called "pulpwash." this is what you get by taking piles of tattered orangesthat have already been thoroughly crushed and heaving them into waiting baths. orange fragments scraped up from the surrounding cement floors can also be added. the mix is left to soak, the rind and pith will partially decay, and so a little more substance can be squeezed out later. that's the pulpwash. it's not really juice, but when shipped to the final canning plant it is added to the orange-colored cold soup. certain popular brands contain up to one-third of this recycled pulpwash, even when they're labeled as "pure" or "freshly-squeezed" orange juice. pulpwash on its own tastes terrible, so sugar has to be added, then some acids and a little acetone (the active chemical in nail polish remover) to give it some tang. when you do that though the acids start reacting with each other, so there has to be some vinegar to slow down that process, but you don't want to slow it down too much, so some ethyl acetate (varnish solvent) goes in. to keep it all from breaking apart, some of the embalming fluid formaldehyde--or a chemical near cousin--gets added as a final salvaging touch: the chemical is ideal at forming tight linking groups between protiens, be it dissolved bits of cadavers, or the more palatable pulpwash. rail freight moguls who owned excess refridgerator cars from the chicago stockyards began the fashion of delivering fresh fruit from warmer climes by advertising this concoction as orange concentrate.
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free tibet!
http://www.starwars.com/snapshot/1999/20/img/merchant_sm.jpg)
[This message has been edited by lightbulba (edited December 31, 1999).]
So.......how about those New York Yankees?
jk
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Very Interesting Lightbulba. I never knew all that stuff.
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I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life...
a century ago no family felt the need for vitamins, as food was thought of as one big undifferentiated thing, and all that counted was how much you got. the utopia ended with casmir funk, the polish chemist who, with others, first recognized the importance of certain trace substances. he modestly resisted the suggestion of calling them funkians, and instead selected the label of vital-amines, or vitamins for short. had funk been less modest, kids would be encouraged to drink up their funkian c, or take extra funkian capsules to be sure.
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free tibet!
http://www.starwars.com/snapshot/1999/20/img/merchant_sm.jpg)
[This message has been edited by lightbulba (edited December 31, 1999).]
lightbulba--
i got so hungry reading your post that I rushed right out and bought a case of baby food and a couple cartons of reconstituted orange juice. *slurp! slurp!*
you're right, it tastes just as wonderful as you describe! *slurp! slurp!*
are you in the baby food business--or the advertising business?
[This message has been edited by Starship Trooper (edited December 31, 1999).]
Yeah what bout those Yanks?
http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif) Lets go Yankees
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"Being Jedi isn't an easy task"
This topic is more interesting than Arse-Jedi Anal wartґs
mr. trooper, you've had enough champagne.
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free tibet!
http://www.starwars.com/snapshot/1999/20/img/merchant_sm.jpg)
[This message has been edited by lightbulba (edited January 01, 2000).]
lightbulba, you're post has remarkable similarities to the book "The Jungle". Are you the Upton Sinclair of the baby food and orange juice industry?
am i?
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[This message has been edited by lightbulba (edited January 01, 2000).]
If you're serious AT ALL, then I'm getting pretty suspicious of the food industry. Naturally, I was already suspicious (has anybody seen the book Bugs In The Peanut Butter?), but now I'm downright paranoid. Thank you for showing me the light. Unlike other people, I like knowing things I would be better off not knowing. Thank you again for this disgusting insight.
Just a thought,
Tyrael99
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The Arch-Angel Tyrael(99)
If I died, would people call me "enigmatic"?
anyone care to learn about hamburgers?
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[This message has been edited by lightbulba (edited January 03, 2000).]
Well... since you brought it up...
Yes, please.
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the extraordinarily expensive restaraunt across town is likely to sell exquisite chateaubriand or other high-priced cuts, right? these are produced from the sort of hulking beef cattle that farmers are justifiably proud of: fleshed up on a high-protien diet of refined grains. but these grain-fed cattle also develop a layer of thick hanging fat below their chests-it's the chunk of soft tissue, hanging like a chest-front jowl that you can see on many prime steers. it would be a terrible waste to thro that huge fat chunk away. the meat from a typical fast-food restaraunt did not come from any such grain-pumped cattle. that would be too expensive. instead, it's largely supplied by scrawny, often underweight cattle, that are usually left to forage for whatever scrub they can find. (at one time it was often tropical lands--local peasants forced away--that were used for grazing, though responsible retailers have since disallowed that practice.) unfortunately the meat from those cattle suffers from the minor problem of being nearly impossible to chew. it's too stringy. only when it's squeezed together with the otherwise unusable yellow fat taken from the chests of healthy big cattle does it become soft enough to eat. to make it work you do need to get around the fact that most people wouldn't like knowing their burgers are loaded up with leftover fat wads. but that's easy. the laws have been adjusted so that a hamburger can be labeled as "lean," even when it's notably high in total fat. just to make it worse, fast-food burgers usually need to be bulked up with other bits of the originating cattle, because you can't make a truly filling burger with just stringy muscle and excess fat. skin, pancreas, head muscles, gristle, and diaphragms can be included in unlimited amounts. with certain less attractive fragments--rectums, testicles, lungs, and spinal cords--proprieties are observed. only "lesser amounts" of these can be included in a burger labeled as 100 percent lean. whatever goes into it, a burger is immensely wasteful of water. it takes 200 liters of water to produce one pound of potatoes and about twice that to produce one pound of wheat. but it takes 45,000 liters of water to produce a pound of hamburger meat. almost all is used for growing the feed, with only a small amount needed for the cattle to drink.
go ahead, ask me why i'm a vegetarian.
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[This message has been edited by lightbulba (edited January 03, 2000).]
So lightbulba, why are you a vegetarian?
and now that you've all seen the nonsense i put up to get this thread back on top...
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[This message has been edited by lightbulba (edited February 12, 2000).]
I got a strange picture in my head, a beatnik with a big mug of coffee and a burning cig at the poetry mic.
Just don't ask me what my bong is made of!
Smoke only non-animal products! (no beef stick joints!)
Ban animal testing of hemp products!
; L~
"the grass is always greener"
When I do fast food I almost always get chicken.
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Not that everything you said bothered me that much. I eat hot dogs regularly.
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"There cannot be any 'story' without a fall - all stories are ultimately about the fall - at least not for human minds as we know them and have them."
-J.R.R. Tolkien
Agreed.
Eating healthy may prolong life, but I wouldn't wantto live without junk food.
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(It occurs to me that if the old saying "you are what you eat" was true, a lot of people would be fast, cheap, and easy
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"The Beasts know much that we do not." -Ancient Jedi proverb
hey, litebubba--
i bot sum fresh ornjes today an' tryed to make ornje joos with 'em
the joos didn't taste too good, not like the stuff that comes outta the cartons frum the stor
so i did like you said the ornje joos companies do
i didn't know where to get any pulpwash, but i did try mixing some of that good stuff in with the ornje joos to make it taste better
i put in sum acetone (from my sisters nail polish remover) and sum vinegar and that tasted better but not quite rite
then i added sum ethyl acetate and that was pretty good but still not as good as the joos i get at the stor
then i added some formaldehyde and oh baby that was it
thanks for the advice
eat my dust, tae-bo! new bubba bath is right for the standard american consumer! why waste time spending energy you could use bathing in baby derisive snack ointment? don't be ashamed of your immobility; be self-confident, with bubba bath. it incorporates all of the nutrients and minerals you love; hearty chunks of bauxite and californium in every bite! *wheeze* also try new lite bubba.
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[This message has been edited by lightbulba (edited April 28, 2001).]
litebubba
yule do anything to keep this thred on top, woncha?
yes.
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[This message has been edited by lightbulba (edited April 28, 2001).]
I think that way back in the olden days(you know when you had to walk 30 miles to school up-hill both ways, through 10 feet of snow without shoes) that the people didn't live very long because they didn't get enough pig's feet or chalk dust or rats tails or wall paper paste. why do you think that the witches and worlocs always lived so long. This is also probably the reason that they were all wrinkled up, and probably the reason that the worlocs were always bald. could it be that we have traded are looks for long life. if we were to go back to eating a traditional breakfast without all the add-ins we could live a more fulfilling life, and actually be able to stand looking at their wives. the divorce rate would be cut. people would look better. Food would taste better. and all we would have to do is get rid of all of those rat tails.
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Ooh Wah Fah Pah
Kneblowac Mi Kims Lyska
from Uutont Fжr Uulion the Cookie(no rat tails, Californian sheep herder extract, Toenail clippings, Acetone, Nail Polish, Petrolium extract, texans, caterpillers, golf clubs, old extract from a fermented bit of feces, canadian scientists, or camels, only 100% raisins(see above), cookie dough, chocolate chips(see above), and maple syrup) Maker, Jedi Knight
[This message has been edited by Uutont Fжr Uulion (edited June 8, 1931(you know the olden days)).]
[This message has been edited by Uutont Fжr Uulion (edited April 28, 2001).]
BULBOUS!!!
Long time no see, where'v'ya been?
Originally posted by Uutont Fжr Uulion:
. . . they didn't get enough pig's feet or chalk dust or rats tails or wall paper paste. why do you think that the witches and worlocs always lived so long. This is also probably the reason that they were all wrinkled up, and probably the reason that the worlocs were always bald.
Where to begin?
First, it's spelled "warlock," and it's rude anyway because the word "warlock" means "liar" (and that's the polite translation). The PC term is "male witches."
Second, witches aren't all wrinkled up, in fact some of the hottest babes I know are practicing wiccans. Witches don't eat pig's feet, or chalk dust, or rats tails, or wall paper paste, they eat eat regular food. Many of them are vegetarians, in fact.
Just for that:
*turns Uutont Fжr Uulion into a newt*
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"The Beasts know much that we do not." -Ancient Jedi proverb
[This message has been edited by BeastMaster (edited April 29, 2001).]
Of course when you say Witch, I assume you mean like a neo-pagan, a practitioner of "the craft" a Wiccan.
I know at least one person who is a believer in that faith, but she seems pretty normal.
Of course I wouldn't look to any movies for accurate information on modern-day witches.
; )
Of course men and women can belong to this religion, but somehow I doubt they eat baby food. Although frozen concentrate orange juice is probably okay.
Kurgan
I was refering to the dark-ages burn at the peat type of witches and I didn't mean to insult anybody. *gets down on his knees* I humbly beg you guys to forgive me for watching "Willow" two to many times, not to mention "Robin Hood: Prince of Theives."
I am sorry for insulting everybody, but I don't know any wiccans. I had a friend who was going that way, but he mysteriously disapeared the day school started. I had talked to him the day before and the next day he was gone. I found out he moved to Florida. I would like to apologize for having this somewhat unrealistic view of witches, but somewhere I remember them having cauldrons where they mixed rat tails and pigs feet with blood of a frog, and a bit of alligator fur to make them live longer. I also seem to remember them having wrinkled up faces and long hawk like pointed noses. Therefore because of my great ignorance and modern fallacy I would most humbly like to apologize and ask for your forgiveness of my most unselfless insurrections and misunderstandings of my knowledge
"Teach me and I will hold my tongue; and cause me to understand wherein I have erred"
Job:6;24
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Ooh Wah Fah Pah
Kneblowac Mi Kims Lyska
from Uutont Fжr Uulion the Cookie Maker, Jedi Knight
/throws water on anyone nearby
Anyone melt?
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Master of Demons, Defender of Underworlds
*Bites lip*
Ummm... no, nobody melted heheehee.
*hides his arms which are now only nubs and runs out of the room*
*splutter*
It's currently 25<sup>0</sup> where I am, with 21% humidity, so. . .
*produces a super-soaker*
RETALIATE!!!
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"The Beasts know much that we do not." -Ancient Jedi proverb
It is already 80 degrees here, os fire away!
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Master of Demons, Defender of Underworlds
Actually frozen concentrate orange juice IS baby food in some cases.
She also told me that if you want any serious information about Wiccans, avoid movies like "the Craft."
The reason for a lot of the witch burning hysteria was apparently because of plagues, bad weather, etc was blamed on a group of people that they considererd strange.
Of course I guess you wouldn't too many problems with executing someone if you honestly thought they were drinking baby blood, making human sacrifices, worshipping the Devil and putting curses on you behind your back. In my readings on the "burning times" there is a lot of misinformation, but in reality, I think the number of people who died is closer to between 20,000 and 100,000 at most.
Also intersting is that apparently a lot of those who worked with the authorities to turn in "witches" were supposedly practitioners of "white magic" (ie: midwives, healers, other witches, etc).
In their minds, they were probably doing their society a favor, by showing they were "good witches" and rooting out "bad witches" (after all, magick, as they call it, can be practiced in order to benefit others, or to hurt others for personal gain; they do not believe in absolute good and absolute evil).
While it is true there are some people who believe their own religion is the only true religion, and thus anything that is different must be "satanically inspired" ("your gods are my demons"). Even some Christian denominations call each other nasty names because they assume because it's different it must be absolutely WRONG.
Yet there is evidence that the witch persecutions were not based merley on this, as they seem to have coexisted (christians, jews, wiccans) for various periods, and not all of the times were they persecuted.
Also it seems it was usually people accused of black magick (that is, magick used to harm someone), whether truthfully or falsely (the point is that even if they really didn't have any powers, they could still be performing rituals they BELIEVED would harm other people on purpose, etc) were the ones persecuted mainly.
Nowadays, people who call themselves "wiccans" or "witches" tend to fall into two main categories:
"Goddess" wiccans, who tend to worship one all-powerful Goddess (instead of "God").
and more traditional
"pagan" wiccans (this is the person I knew) who worship multiple deities, both male and female (gods and goddesses). They may also talk about it as "aspects of deity" but they really believe that there are many gods, it's not a New Age monism or Unitarian symbolic kind of thing or something.
Wiccans tend to focus on 'worship' of nature, rituals, the body, etc.
Modern wiccans can be men or women, and some groups only allow women, and some allow both men and women. There are also individuals that are kind of practicing on their own instead of in groups.
They apparently don't believe in any life after death, except perhaps reincarnation (you're born again as another person). They also have no written scriptures (historically anyway). They don't believe in absolute good and absolute evil (no devil and no hell). They tend to just believe that you can access sacred power, and you can use it to help people, or you can use it to hurt people (and you do what is best for the ones you love, etc). The famous Wiccan rede is a sort of golden rule:
"An it harm none, do as thou wilt"
(do whatever you want, as long as you don't hurt others)
I'm not sure exactly where it comes from, but it would be interesting to find out. The golden rule is a common thread that appears running throughout many religions.
Obviously, practitioners of "black magick" would be in violation of the Wiccan rede, and thus most Wiccans would consider them to be abberations. Though they would not be "evil" just bad (those who misuse their powers).
I'm no expert on paganism either, and I would guess wiccanism as practiced today isn't the same as it was practiced in the middle ages, but it's definately a religion, and it's definately around, though misunderstood by some. And of course not every wiccan practices the same way... or understands their faith identically either.
Kurgan
[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited May 03, 2001).]
Oh, and I have read sources that claim (I think 'religious intolerance' site even claimed this) that "gothic witches" (ie: the ones who cast evil spells on people, etc) never existed, and was just a conspiracy invented by the Catholic Church to persecute those they didn't like.
First of all, the Catholic Church is a worldwide faith, and it would have encountered other forms of Wicca than those practiced in Europe. Persecution of witches during the burning times was in many different places. In some places, many were executed. In others, none were executed. In some places mostly men were killed, others it was mostly women, in others it was equal. And Protestants killed witches too. Heck, even some witches helped kill other witches!
The problem with this "Catholic conspiracy" theory, is that even today, in the world there exist practioners of what we would call "black magick." That is, people who earnestly believe, that certain rituals, spells, etc can be used to attack their enemies or influence events in their favor (often with negative consequences).
Practitioners of witchcraft in Africa, for example, are very old, and likely pre-Christian as well.
In anthropology there is the distinction between "sorcery" which involves the manipulation of physical objects (herbology, poisons, chemicals, divination, alchemy, etc.) and "witchcraft" (spiritual powers, soul combat, etc). In both cases, these are often seen as simple manipulation of spiritual power. Some use it for personal gain and some use it to help others. So it is usally not clear cut, which is "evil" and which is "good." But there is often a suspicion of those who have secret powers.. because in theory, they could be using them to hurt you, or if you piss them off, etc.
Sorcerers may be witches, and non-witches may be sorcerers, etc. It's all very interesting. And of course the modern religion known as "Wicca" as practiced in general in the west is very different from the witchcraft practiced in say Africa (and varies from country to country).
But for somebody to claim that "bad" witches never existed, or were invented by Christians, is pretty untrue.
Of course there are a few beliefs about witches in the West that were likely not true (ie: they worship the devil.. since Wiccans have no devil in their cosmology.. you'd have to assert that the gods and goddesses they worship are actually demons in disguise.. and how would you prove this?).
There were nasty rumors about Christians too in the early days. In this documentary I saw, and some sources I read, A Roman tomb showed some graffitti that a crude drawing depicted Jesus on the cross, but with the head of a donkey, and the inscription "(Name) worships his god."
Also there is a letter of some Greek or Roman guy complaining how Christians at their masses are gathering to eat live children covered in dough (the eucharist??) and having orgies (the masses were often called "love feasts" I guess if you take it literally....).
So that kind of thing is dishonest, but rumors fly fast.
Anyway, no offense taken, I just thought it would be fun to talk about and add my buck fifty. ; )
And if you want me to cite my sources for this data, I'd be happy to.
Kurgan
[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited May 03, 2001).]
As noted in another thread, I'm taking a course on witchcraft and the occult, in September. It should be useful as I include real magical traditions in my fantasy writings whenever possible. Of course, modern Wicca is a much-modified version of several ancient pagan/tribal faiths, so it's certainly possible that most modern Wiccans don't know the origin of their tradition. . .
Bunch of wannablessedbes. These days every girl with a henna tattoo and a spice rack thinks she's a sister to the Dark Ones.
You do have to love the logic of the witch-hunter mentality: throw a prisoner in the lake. If she drowns, she's innocent, if she survives, we'll burn her at the stake.
<small>Stupid humans.</small>
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I believe Willow Rosenburg said it best:
Damned witch-hunters, with their less-satanic-than-thou attitudes.
Of course, left out of all the accounts of Witch-burnings were the cases where the Inqisitor found an actual magic-user and was turned into a toad.
http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif)
Survival of the fittest, witch-style.
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"The Beasts know much that we do not." -Ancient Jedi proverb
That magick stuff reminds me of my friend. He was reading a series of books titled something like "Candle Magick," or some such
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Ooh Wah Fah Pah
Kneblowac Mi Kims Lyska
from Uutont Fжr Uulion the Cookie Maker, Jedi Knight
Yeah, there's is a wide spectrum in Withcraft, and Wicca.
Kurgan
long time, no see? no, it's "have not seen for long time", in which case you should raise your warped ulna to the heavens and request a cherry. but if you meant that you haven't seen me for a long time, that's an altogether different story. i like what's been done to the site, but after my resurgence in the london theatrical circle, this new literature has me white with fear (which is unfortunate, considering my present pale state). honestly, i think i'm going to have to tell you what i'm wearing to squeeze the mittens unto my george foreman grill! revolve, repulsive creature! revolve! calm myself down. my feet are covered with esoteric jive. the rest of my body is covered by a long, flowing bib with a doctored photo of winston churchill ransacking a deserted meniscus! revolve! doing the slop. you might be alleviated, you might be undergoing knee surgery, but either way, you still want to drop the columbus on the 9! feel like a star. by the way, i am currently in sunny california, trying to learn the whereabouts of ikhnaton and trinity2k.
where the hell is my picture?
[ May 28, 2001: Message edited by: lightbulba ]
This thread is unkillable!
Ike can be found at XWA.net, but his beloved Trin seems to have fallen silent.
I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt.