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Your thought's on the late tech trees and civs diversity? (Long)

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 DarthTenor
11-08-2001, 3:02 AM
#1
of course after looking at the tech trees I'm curious how people see the civs being balanced. Well All I can say is that this game seems really well balanced. There is quite a bit of deversity amongst the civs, but it really doesn't take effect until tech 3 and 4. Aside from some specific civ bonuses,(Gunguns underground building, Trade fed no prefab shelters) The civs all seem to play very similary from tech1 and tech 2.


I believe LucasArts didn't want to have civs to be so deversified like AOK in the early ages. WHere AOK had early civs with an economic bonuses such as Chinese ad mongols and civs that are better in the late ages .(turks koreans) Lucas arts has decided not to follow their footsteps. * at least that's what I've read in some interview* All the civs seem to have a good chance to attack early for those who like to rush. I really don't think that there will be a dominating civ in the early ages like they did in AOK.

It is true that the trade federation has that no prefab shelter/house bonus much like the huns do. What they do lack however is the the gathering rate of carbon (20% I believe). That will slow them down a bit so they wont be the "Best rushing Civ" like the chinese (Before the last patch) was when everyone played them and no other civ. (That was the most most frustrating thing to most gamers like myself before the patch)

The best part of the game certainly evolves around the later tech trees in Tech 3&4. That's where it really deversivies enough to warant what civ is truelly a powerhouse. The unique techs really bring out that diversity. And still the civs seem really capabale of standing up to one another. That is what will make this game so much more fun. The playing styles will actually be very different. At least IMHO.

my thoughts on each civ. (Not in any specifc strength order)

The Rebels;
Have good air and jedi complemented by good
troopers. Although they only have one unique tech Tougher armor. The added 20 hit points that it gives all the toopers will really round out their air force. They aren't strong in mechs and do have the heavy assault mech but they don't have all the mech armour upgrades that other civs do. Their air and jedi could very well round out the weakness. their Snow speeder fills it out nicely since it has a bonus against mechs of all sorts.

Emprire
Good troopers/mechs and jedi. What else does the empire need. They have certainly the best mechs and seeing their Heavy assualt mechs (At-AT) makes us look back at the classic movie from which they are depicted. They certainly have all the armour upgrades for them. They lack the air force but are purely land based assualt minded. their jedi shoud help with the ground assault as well as their unque unit the dark trooper. just be prepared for anti-air support form some of the other civs that are heavy in air supperiority.

Gungans
Good with mechs and sea ships. What else should the gungans be good at? i'm not sure. they lack air and jedi. their troopers are actually strong enuogh to support their unique creatures. since they are also strong in the mech department their primary attack seems to be land based as well as sea based. Though their true advantage in the sea really doesn't become apparent till the final tech levels. Great no more galley rushes by one dominat civ. (persians vikings) Compliment their unique mobile generator with their strong mechs and troopers.

Naboo
Surely taking of advantage of the new feature in SWBG. Air superiority. I remember everyone complaining about the air being weak. not with these bad boys. Faster ships (upgraded) Shields certainly will keep these ships alive a little longer. They are really tough in jedi and lack the trooper support that most other civs have. That may be compensated by a unique tech that allows the military to be produced cheaper and faster. (I think) their unique unit will help them against the civs strong in the mech department as it is a mounted unit that is really effective against mechs.


Trade
some people may think this is the hun civ of GB. It does sound like they could be a strong "rushing" civ. but i think their -20% gathering rate really keeps the civs even. This is yet another civ that is heavily dependant on a ground offensive. Their unique
unit will be hard to stop complimenting their mechs very well. they lack air and jedi. Hard to see these guys as a well rounded like the others. i'm not sure what other strength they have. They don't have strong troopers either. will still be competetive with their unque techs. ithink they revolve on cheaper research and buildin structures or something.


Wookies.
Very similar to the rebels with air and troop power but with slight variations. They a e completely troop and air oriented. Their bonuses really sound like they are very interesting to play. Regeneration adds the ability for troopers to heal themeselves and add +30 hit points to their troops thus being the best infantry civ. However they don'y have jedi like the rebels do. Their Berserker unit will fill that roll nicely. they are strong in air like the rebels but have weak mechs. Their seige/artillery seems to be the best in the game. complements the lack of strong assault mechs. They can attack from a range farther than other civs.

It seems as though they will play very differently from each other. Then Again I really haven't played the game yet. (Aside from the demo of course) Really looking forward to see what this game will have to offer when it hits the shelves come monday. (I hope I hope i hope)

interesting what you guys think about the diversity among civs. Mind you of course if everyone wants to get to the later techs. Everyone seems to want to rush all the time.
 Admiral Thrawn
11-08-2001, 7:15 AM
#2
Better than most reviews!
 chrisw_30
11-08-2001, 3:48 PM
#3
Good info...
 porkins14
11-08-2001, 4:34 PM
#4
Awesome job darth, thank you. i would like to add some input and questions i think are important:

Empire: I am disappointed in dark troopers, and i think many are blinded to their weakness by their loyalty to star wars. Once strike mechs are uprgraded (only including tech 3, Demo), they are far and away better then dark troopers if you look at the stats. D Troopers are cheaper but i dont think people will be lacking carbon in late stages of the game. I guess dark troopers are nice because of detection, and it remains to be seen how important this is. I just think they are far and away the weakest special unit (if you look at stats and dont be biased!)

Rebels: I like the rebs but once again my questions come with the unique unit. I guess air upgrades dont count towards snowspeeders because they are a fortress unit? This will make them pretty ineffective I feel.

Naboo: Awesome air and jedi. My personal favorite civ. i think the shielded unique is tight, and very underrated. I have a feeling people wont use air as much as ground so they will be inexperienced vs good air players. Throw in good water too and this civ is awesome.

Trade Fed: Lack of prefabs is a farse and wont make any difference. however they do have a sweet unique research. The tech 4 ore extract thing, which makes them mine ore 50 % faster. Lots of towers and fortresses.

Gungans: Another really underrated civ. Best mechs in my opinion with the special creature armor. Their seige will be great also with unique upgrades. It will be interesting to see how effective mobile shield gens are. If they are as effective as they sound, I think this might be the dominate race in the game. The special seige upgrade will make their anti air mech stronger which will nullify their weak air. This civ looks really good.
 GL_Raptor
11-08-2001, 5:24 PM
#5
An excellent post, and nice follow up too porkins.

Trade Fed: From what I have read, one of the unique techs (or just civ bonus) will allow the trade feds to trade 1:1 at the market. No one has been talking about this bonus which makes me think that eather 1: I got it wrong or 2: it is underrated. Trading 1:1 will allow a trade fed player to just mine or chop or farm or whatever, using what is most abundant or fastest to aquire, and then trade for whatever he or she wants. Now it takes a little more work but it is still a very very nice bonus.

Empire: Again, from what I hear the imps have a tech similer to the trade feds, allowing 1:1 trading at the market. THe at-at is gonna be great too. I wasn't happy with the dark trooper for a couple reasons. It doesn't do well in the demo but hopfully it will be beefed up in the fulll game. Also, I wasn't happy with it as a choice at all. I have heard some great suggestions on this forum for what might have been a better unit. I'm just not sure if the imps needed yet another mech unit when mechs already dominate their civ. We will see how it does in the full game though.

Rebels: I have been dissappointed with the snowspeeder in tech3 anyways. I'm sure it will be upgraded in tech 4 to be much better though. Jedi will be nice :)

Wookies: Probably the race I will try to master first. I love ranged combat. My favorite civ in aok was the britons because of their sweet archer range. Sounds like the wookies will be the best civ at ranged trooper combat, and regeneration will be very very nice.

Gungans: Two words. Portable Shield. Enough said :)

Naboo: not a clue. Alot of people are excited about the Naboo and their bonuses but I am looking forward more to the wookies and the gungans.

Just my 2 cents :) Mostly I want to know if the 1 to 1 trading is correct
 Dvlos
11-08-2001, 7:29 PM
#6
As for the Rebels:

Everyone is downing on them for their unique unit. But they are so hardy in alot of areas, they don't seem extremely weak in any particular areas. They do get mechs, and mech destroyers, and to combat the empire (and gungans) overwhelming strength in Mechs, they get the snowspeeder which has a bonus against mechs. This is why I love GB, it appeals not only to the child in me-the love for Star Wars, but the strategist in me. I feel that people will have their various armies/unit groups so hotkeyed because they are so balanced... no more 50 archers with 10 priest armies like in AoK. Rebels get cloaked Jedi, and very strong in the air, only the Naboo are stronger by one or two techs. They have hardy troops, and are proficient food gatherers making them able to crank out ships and troops quickly. They may not have one glaring super power, but much like the Rebels from the movies they have a little of everything. I think they will be the hardest to play, and in the hands of a master, the hardest to defeat.

Gungans: They are strong in the sea, I know if its a heavy water map, pick these guys. Their Fambaa shield Gen is great, and hteir heavy assault mech is kick ass, but they are so lacking in alot of areas, I personally feel they will be the best "compliment" race. They will go good with any civ in the hands of a good team oriented player online. They will probably also be the funnest of all the civ single player missions.

Wookies: At first glance they may be overpowered, except they are weak in Jedi. I think the best civs to counter Wookies are TF and Rebels.

Empire: What everyone else has said, except that the Dark Troopers are a very handy unit, especially in their Phase 2 state in level 4. Carbon may be a problem in later maps and mechs are expensive, I can easily make an army of 40 dark troopers where I would struggle to make an army of 40 at-ps' and the mechs have a minimum range.

Naboo: See Rebels, except their troopers are very weak. To make up for it they have this nice Royal Crusader unique unit to balance them out. Again, this could also be their weakness, since its easier to make 5 barracks (typically) than 5 fortresses with shield gens (if you want your fortresses to last).
 darthfergie
11-08-2001, 8:28 PM
#7
Man...you guys weren't kidding *looks at thread...takes ten minutes scroling from top to bottom* this is long

BTW, Good reviews...hopefully you guys can post even more once you have had a chance to play the civs:)
 GIR
11-08-2001, 8:41 PM
#8
Hello. Here's my stats on the issue.

Rebels: I am very excited about their air units because of their tech level 4 upgrades and their jedi. They get a farm bonus so they can churn out troops faster. There's really only one thing that every civilzation except the gungans are lacking and i'm only gonna say this once: A NAVY. Has anyone ever seen a rebel navy?
I'm also dissapointed in the Rebs because of their mech upgrades. They're good but not what i expected. And i don't know why everyone is ranking on the Snow speeders! It's a mech killer! Great counter to the Imps. I will be playing the rebs but not too frequently.

Imps: Very dissapointed in their air units. I was surprised that they had a bad air force. I mean the Imperial Air Force is one of the best iv'e seen. Also they should get an air unit price cut because if you've read after a battle a pilot gets a new TIE fresh from the factory. I'm also dissapointed in the TD'S. I'm surprised they weren't good. Now, time to stop ranking on the imps and get to their good points. Their mechs look awesome and from what i've read.. they are! Especially AT-AT's. No minimum range when upgraded but that's their only unique upgrade. Their troopers are good but their mechs are better. Now the Dark Troopers are good but should have been made better, and the Sith are fine.

Gungans: To all the Gungan haters out there remember that Jar-Jar doesn't represent the Gungans. They are a very advanced culture and are as capable as the others. The best thing i like about the gungans is their navy, I also like their mechs. Although it doesn't take an idiot to strap a huge gun to an animals back and ride it i still find it creative. I still have gotta rank on the Gungan's air units and their jedi. the gungans do NOT and I repeat DO NOT have a good air force. I don't know why but it seems like that their like the imps without good jedi. The Gungans only get Jedi Knights not masters and only get one force upgrade. The Gungan's creature training gives thm a mech bonus and 10+ hp which in my arena is very helpful. They also get another unique tech which all of a sudden i can't remember but it lets you churn out naval units faster than any other civ. The Gungan's unique unit only improves even more upon the mechs by giving them sheilds. Yes it's a fambaa, and yes it's big.

Naboo: This is the civ i am going to master first and foremost because of their air superiority. The Naboo own the skies with N-1's and bombers. They get all air upgrades in tech 4 and will pave the way. Unfortunately here's the bad part... they have very weak troops and mechs. What do you expect from just a security force to protect the queen and police the streets? They don't have an army... that's why they got the gungans to do it for them. Although it was part of a well orchestrated plan. They get no mech upgrades whatsoever and don't get an assult mech.
However their Jedi and their unique unit make up for this. The jedi for the Naboo get all force upgrades except for one or two and they get masters. The unique unit is the Royal Crusader which has a nasty attack and some high hp. It has good armor and when you upgrade it to an elite it even gets sheilds! March your crusaders and kick some arse.

Ill put some more on a later post when i have my heart into it.
:D
 DarthTenor
11-09-2001, 12:44 PM
#9
Thanks to all that like the info. Again those were my initial thoughts on the info that was given.


contimued;

rebels. Now I know that air units at least in the demo, have been kacking because of the power of the anti-air units ans towers. Surely the upgrades that are aquired in the tech 4 really will give an edge to those that have shield modifications. I think hit and run tactics will be more prevelant since they probably regenarate like the shield generators. Having said that they it will be really neat to see what it has to offer. I alos think that the speeder is also effective. And being weak and usless? Far from it. The speeder is THE MECH killer. much needed since their mech destroyers are lacking in armour strenght and I dint think they even have the advanced mech destroyer. A much need unit.


Empire:
GIR, I don't think they should have a good air force. IMHO. They are oriented with good mechs, troops, and jedi. Adding the Air supperiority woul'd make them the most powerful civ. The dark trooper I think may be under rated. They are not as expensive as strike mechs and really can rip apart troopers. could be very useful in taking out pesky bounty hunters while accopnying jedi. Good strong ground forces and a killer Assault mech they should be fine.

Gungans.
Yep interesting civ. should be very good as an all out offensive civ. Their sea bonus should also be interesting since it doesn't really take effect till you research their unique TECH. I think i'll enjoy playing this civ.

Naboo
Again air units could possibly be underated at least at the present "DEMO" state. They should be really fun to play.


Wookies.

AH yes going to be my favorites. troopers are cool. Enmasse they are surprising. Adding the besrerker strong air and artillery they are potent affensive force.

Trade.
The lowly trade federation might under rated so far. Agian I'm not sure what they have to offer as well. they are strong in sea units too. i'm interesting to see what they might have to offer.
 PhantomMenace
11-09-2001, 8:25 PM
#10
Ok this is THE hardcore review of the tech tree's and who will be the best and weak civs of the game. I agree with the guy who started the thread that all the civs looks balanced and toe to toe in the early civs (1 &2). THis is good cuz like he said, the chinese where the premeire rushers and if you let the teutons get to Imperial age you were screwed! The balance lasts long enough for everyone to get their foot in a door and a fighting chance, then in the late civs, tech 3 & 4 is when the differences come to light and we will really see whether air with shields is worht a d*** or not! So here is my review of the civs. THe leather and whips, chains and jumpercables hardcore review!

Rebel Alliance-
I am biased to all the units who are strong in air because from what i've seen air isn't that effect unless the other guy is a chowder head. yeah you can harrass them with it at first but once they got even mediocre air defense system, you might as well put the fighter pilots on a smoke break and to me, you greatest strenght shouldnt be something that can be derailed so easily so i have to say the rebels are weak and dissapointing. Looks like they put all their points into air and jedi in the spirit of luke skywalker which would be great if this game was Rogue Squadron, but it is not. Its a predominately ground battle and thus the Rebels are shafted. THey will have fearsome Jedi who will be able to pull all kinds of crap, but i say dont try to play ranged attack with the jedi. Fight fire with fire and put your own Jedi or heavy mounted melee fighters on em. Sad but true i give the rebels a disappointing 2 of 5 to match thier disappointing unique unit.

Galactic Empire-
Now here's a civ for kicking some butt. Forget the fact that their air doesnt have sheilds, pay more attention to ALL the awesmoe Mechs they have from the powerhouse AT-AT's to their unique unit which is a little bitty two-legged mech really. Their heavy weapons seem powerful enough to get the job done and give adequate support to their unrelenting wave of troops and mech that will shake the earth of the enemy base. The Empire has all the stuff they need in all the right places. Troops and mech is power, air is finess, and fighting with finess is much harder and requires much more skill, which will be quite difficult once the blasters start frying stuff. It looks as if the Empire was crafted in the image of the powerful Darth VAder. I give em a 5 of 5.

Roayl Naboo
The N-1 starfighter was a cool ship so they decided to make the Naboo real good at air. Once agian i will have to be shown the power of air. I know its invulnerable if you dont have air defense but gosh people air defense units really arent that hard to get ahold of. They cost about just as much as any other unit so wake up and build a couple. THe Royal crusader will be a breath of fresh air once you see the guy comin at you with like 12 jedi to do the old "conversion wave" that people went nuts with in Age of Kings. They dont get the last mech but looks like they are at least adequate in troops and heavy weapons so the Naboo doesnt look like a bad civ to play. I give em a 4 out of 5.

Gungan-
In the name of Gomer Pyle, "Surprise, Surprise, Surprise!!!"(i believe it was him..hehe). Like that guy in gamespot said, dont mistake the entire Gungan race to be just like Jar Jar. THe Gugans are serious! They are strong in all the stuff that helps you take down a base, which is really the entire goal of the game right. They got good mechs to start with then get some good bonuses to make em even better. They are the masters of the darkhorse element of this game; navy. However in maps without water they will be left without their major advantage. But the gungans get a cool little do dad to make up for that. It is the best unique unit in the game, the Fambaa shield generator. Just think of what the Arbiters let you do in Starcraft and you will know what i'm talking about ;-). I read somewhere that one of the designers said a good tip was "convert the Fambaa shield generators"...weeeee!!! I say go get YOUR jedi and convert it back..hehe. Ok they are weak in air but stong in heavy weapons like mobile air defense so there ya go. A cool civ that i am really looking forward to playing and so glad that lucasarts put their army in a game. 5 of 5.

Wookies-
Chewbacca was big and could rip a stromtroopers arms off! It only makes sense that they have powerful and relentless infantry unit. Only thing i woulda liked was if they woulda added a secondary attack where the wookies acutally did rip somethign arms off if it was at close range. THey did something weird with wookies.. They gave them strong troops and strong air with seems like a weird combination to me. My guess is to that they have strenght in the early game in case somebody wnats to rush. Rushin a wookie base i assume will be like sending 8 zerglings against 3 zealots...hehe..bye bye zerglings. Then with strong air they will hav a solid force in the late game when shields start poppin up and things start gettin converted left and right. I guess the question is..what do they do in the mid game??? Wookies seem weird, i'll have play em..their strenght in air gets covered up by their powerful infantry. 3 of 5.

Trade Federation-
"Where are those Droidekas!!!!???" is the message your enemies will be shouting once you get your destroying droids to rollin around and razing their base! The Trade Fed looks like a great civ to play alone and with all their trade bonuses looks like a good civ to partner up with too. With not having to build houses, they will be the Rush Rush Bliztkreig civ of the game. Asides from that the trade federation has a awesome graphical interface and unit/building design which is good eye candy at the least. Another good thing about the Trade Federation besides those neat AAT's and MTT's which should even out with those AT-AT's and AT-ST's is their unique unit which is the second coolest unique unit in the game. THe destroyer droid is fast and powerful. Gettin reflections of the Woad Raider here. IN short, yes they got every carbon harvesting gig in the book, but hey they're the trade federation...trade something for more carbon! 4 of 5.
 DarthTenor
11-10-2001, 3:58 AM
#11
Gosh I was hoping for more replies. ;)

Now Phantom I don't know why your dissin the rebels so much. they look more than qualified to stand up to any foe. Respectfully I understand your point abou the air. We're aren't sure what effect the shields will have on air.

Now I have the strategy guide and they do say that the rebels have a tough road to because of their uncertainty in any aspect of their forces. They do however have very strong jedi and troopers to compensate for their weaknesses. The fact that they have masters who can cloak doesn't interest you? I know that the opposition has the bounty hunters to detect them. Take the bounty hunters out and you have you're self a tough army of jedi's to stop. imagine having a large group if AT-AT heading down and attacking. Take some cloaked jedi masters convert those AT-AT's and you wont have nothing to attack with. There is alot of variety here with the rebels. They will probably be one of the harder civs to master come gametime as well as the wookies. I thinkYou underestimate the power of troopers. EnMasse they are a powerful group. With the rebels +20 hit points they should stand up to some agressive mech civs. Countering those mech oriented civs shouldn't be a problem with speeders near by. They are supposed to have a huge bonus against mechs of any type.


now something interesting that the PRIMA strategy guys mentioned. Is that the anti-air may be tomed down a bit. Of course this may have been printed long before the demo came out.

they also mentioned civs rank based on ease of use. It was;

Empire
Gungans
Rebels
Naboo
Trade
Wookies

Granted we have still yet to learn what each civ has in store for us but I wouldn't understimate their chances.
 PhantomMenace
11-10-2001, 7:15 AM
#12
I see your point..i guess i was a bit harsh on the rebels and it does seem like their Jedi will be a big factor for them, but that Airspeeder is just too big a let down to get over for me. I stand corrected on the following things...

-Forget letting the Tuetons get to Imperial age, if you play against the Tuetons period you are screwed.

-I now give the rebels a 3 of 5..hehe.

-It wouldnt make much sense to give Wookies a secondary attack to rip off people's arms cuz everyone knows the obvious counter to that would be to have your soldiers tuck their arms into their vests and fire from the hip...but then if the wookie went for the head...well..you'd be on your own on that one.

-Here is the revised score:

Gungans 5
Empire 5
Trade Federation 4
Royal Naboo 4
Wookies 3
Rebel Alliance 3
 Admiral Thrawn
11-10-2001, 9:40 AM
#13
Wookiees will be the death of you!
 Paladin
11-10-2001, 5:46 PM
#14
That sums the civs up nicely.:)
 xwing guy
11-10-2001, 6:03 PM
#15
I don't know why people think Rebel mechs are so weak. I've used them against Imp mechs and they're not as bad as people say. But once everyone gets up to TL4 then it'll be different because the rebels will have to deal with AT-ATs and other civs assualt mechs. Also, don't ever underestimate your enemy because it could very well be your destruction.
 DarthTenor
11-10-2001, 10:21 PM
#16
Xwing guy. They Do have all the mechs but theya re lacking in their shielding and other important upgrades to denote "good" mechs. Tha't the thing the true divesity in the civs is the final tech level. Aside of the unique unit in tech 3 they are really effective until then. Can't wait. and I hear already that there are some poeple who have it. Dag nab it I have to wait ti pick it up on tuesday. Should of preordered it.
 isthisfor_real
11-10-2001, 10:53 PM
#17
The Empire

Mechs
Upgrade to heavy mechs is 5% less not although its not much it helps because Im sure that those upgrades will be pricey and Im betting upgrade to heavy AT-AT will be around 1000 nova and thats 50 nova off which isnt great. The Emps have the best mechs with all the units and all the armor and damage upgrades in the War Center. Also upgrade that allows no minimum range.

Sea
Their sea is missing only advance cruisers.

Air
Efficient Manufactoring in the 4th age keep them from being the worst and its very appropiate for the imps because how the Ties are cheap and fast and it makes all aircraft cost 25% less.

Jedi
Depends on your taste on what you want your Jedi to do is how they would be ranked if you ranked them but they are missing Jedi stealth

Fortress
Dark Troopers are useful because they have no direct counter like strike mechs do, are 20 carbon cheaper than strike mechs,and they seem faster.

Heavy Weapons
They have all the units and are missing the tech reinforced frame which gives them 10% more hp.

Barracks
Missing 3rd mounted trooper and an grenader explosive tech but has all armor and damage upgrades at war center.

Extra bonuses
Probot
Altered Bargains-4th level unique tech allows trade 1:1
Air cost 5% more and build 5% longer-not a bonus

What all this means
With the mech upgrades that increase the amount hp of mechs makes their heavy assualt mech a walking damage absorber and with no minimum range Jedi's or other melee units will not be able to bring it down without taking any damage. Altered bargains will help you pay for the AT-AT and their upgrades by trading a resource you have an abundance of for nova. They have upgraded Sith Masters that can convert your oppenents buildings and jedi although they will not be able to sneak attack anyone because they cannot go stealth. With probots if nothing else you can keep one one as a cheap detector unit or do a second age rush with them. Their hvy weapons are good until the 4th age where you can get cannons therefore missing reinforced frame does not hurt them and probely wouldn't have anyway. If you need strike mechs darktroopers can take the place of strike mechs and free up your mech factory while you build AT-AT's or be used in a "drop a fortress" and pump out them out and hurt the oppenents economy. Wont be able to heavy bombard anyone from sea but they can protect their cruiseirs better than some who have heavy cruiseirs. They wont be able to do much from the air but it remains to be seen if anyone will be able too.


The Gungans

Barracks

Extra range with unique tech which gives them +2 but because they are missing a tech which gives them +1 overall its just a +1 bonus on everything except mounted units. They dont have droid assistants which is a cheap useful tech in age 4 that makes troops created 20% faster also missing a grenader tech

Mechs

I read some people saying in other threads that they were second best in mechs but the emps and trade fed beat em because the gungans are missing adv redesign which gives all mechs +50 hp and lets mech destroyers do extra damage to assault mechs for 750 food and 450 nova. While gungan creature armor gives 10% hitpoints for 700 food 350 carbon. Though cheaper creature armor is not as effective as adv redesign. In the best case creature armor gives 30 hp to a heavy assault mech(300hp) and nothing else while adv redesign gives 50 to everything thing and makes mech destroyers better against assault mechs.

Sea

They have it all here even the two techs at the war center plus their own unique tech and all their boats are stealth.


Jedi

No masters and 2 4th age techs one that allows all units +50% conversion resistance

Fortress

The Fambaa can give them the best everything though you will have to find a way to keep them from being converted.

Heavy Weapons

Unique tech allow pummels more effective against walls,AA more effective against air,and artillery more effective against buildings.
All units and their upgrades.

Air

At least they have some

Extra bonuses
Can build prehab shelters underwater
Air build 5% longer and cost 5% more

What all this means

The most glaring thing about them is their mechs and famba sheilds. To me though unless the famba is a real powerhouse I cant gungans as one of the best to me there just seems something missing. Their troopers will always get first hit on your troopers with the extra range. The houses underwater can free up your workers if your on a water map and if your base ever gets destroyed it will be easier on you for you to relocate by having to build houses all over again on the flip side if other boats can spot it and you have no way of defending them you will have to build those all over. They will be effective at taking down bases with great seige and a moving sheild. Maybe good mechs with good troops under a fambaa = great. That is probally the key.

Ill do more later if you guys like this and if you dont then I will still do more later j/k
 DarthTenor
11-11-2001, 1:19 AM
#18
Yeah real continue your thoughts.


I like your idea of having the fortress build dark troopers instead of stike mechs. Althought hey don't have the same speed as they do they as you said free the mech factory to build those mind blowing AT-AT's


The gungans look real interesting to play. surprising that they are strong in troops as well. keep their troopers in the the ragius of a Faamba generator and they will be very tough to take down. I think they lack the last armour upgrade for their troops.
They look real fun to play.
 PhantomMenace
11-11-2001, 1:23 AM
#19
All yo gotta do is read my review and all the answers will be laid before you.
 isthisfor_real
11-11-2001, 1:58 PM
#20
I checked all the upgrades before I posted and the gungans warriors do have last armor upgrade. Also writing up the rebs I thought up a way the emp AT-AT can take out others assualt mechs without taking much damage. When they get no minimum range just get in the other assualt mech minimum range and take it out. I think that will be pretty good if the other person isnt paying attention.

Rebels

Barracks

They have all units and upgrades even those at the War Center. Also they have a unique tech that gives all barrack units +20 hp that didnt seem like much to me but then I did the math a repeater trooper has 45hp with the upgrade they now have 65hp that is around a 40% increase. The tech only cost 100F in the 4th age making it an instant upgrade.

Mechs

The get the heavy assault mech but its not going to withstand the empires giving up around 150 hp to it and some war center upgrades. Also they are missing the hvy strike mech.

Sea

They are missing adv cruisers and adv frigates making it hard to attack with sea but they do have hvy destroyers giving them some defence with sea.

Jedi

As I said before it depends on what you want out of your Jedi, making them hard to rank but I think they have the 3rd best Jedi because they cant turn other Jedi while the imps and naboo can.

Fortress

Air speeders will be good if the person is mech happy but also the best way to take assault mechs just might be mech destroyers these could be a lot more effective.

Hvy Weapons

Are serviceble until age 4 where all they get is the upgrade to the AA-hvyweapon but it is ok because in age 4 everyone gets cannons.

Air

Air gets upgraded in age 4 but lets not forget AA also gets upgraded in tech 4(Towers and hvy weapons) but they get all upgrades.

Other bonuses

5% more food from farms

What this all means

Enmass upgraded air should be able to get by a couple of AA turrets and wreak havoc until the appropiate amount of AA is created to dispatch them. Also in tech 4 you can use cannons, gaurded by air on the turrets making their army come at the cannons then the air can pick them off a lot of this depends how strong the ships are and the army. Their troops are really good and with the Jedi they have a good ground force. The farm bonus will come into effect between the 3rd age and 4th and you will start getting an abundance of food. Airspeeders go good with troops because the speeders can take out the mechs and let the troops go to work.

Naboo

Barracks

Missing last armor upgrades and many barracks upgrades they basically dont improve any in age 4

Mechs

Missing last armor upgrades, Heavy Assult Mech, many upgrades and Hvy Mech Destroyer which leaves them without a way to destroy Assualt Mechs unless their unqiue unit is good at it.

Sea

Same as gungans only they dont have the unique tech.

Jedi

Missing +3 turning range but I like them with the imps as the best Jedi in the game.

Fortress

Best bounty hunters in the game. Their unique tech battle armor gives all fortress units 25% more hp and comes in at age 3. A normal bounty hunter 175hp this tech will give them around 217hp. It also helps their unique unit and gives them the best cannons in the game. Their unique unit also gets sheilds with their unique tech in age 4. Their fortresses should always be very busy.

Heavy Weapons

Same boat as rebels only difference is they get a upgrade at research center that the rebels dont.

Air

Also same as rebels only they have a unique tech making their ships 10% faster

Other bonuses
+10% Nova collection
Taxation-unique tech all militaty units are 10% less

What all this means

The +10% will help pay for their army because everything they have that is good cost nova. They will be predictible its hard to believe they will field an army without jedi or air. Their royal crusaders might be able to take out assault mechs because of the mechs minimum range but against AT-AT they wont hold any ground unless their jedi can convert them. Being able to convert other Jedi or kill them with their better bounty hunters makes them real in this area. If you use aircraft and jedi's as convertesr(buildings, units) there armies can take a lot of micromanging but lets not forget they can suprise and bother you with a good sea.(only missing gungan unique tech)


This is kind of a preparation warning here that deals with jedi's. Now when you upgrade your padawans to knights your existing padawans become knights but I think when you get masters your existing knights do not become masters because a padawan and knight cost 100F 200N and a master cost 100F 350N
 Knights_Q2
11-11-2001, 3:22 PM
#21
My turn to civ civ overviews

Ill do it by tech level.

Empire

t1-The empire, I must say, is the worst t1 civ. No one really has any speed bonuses, but the empire's troopers have less attack than all the other t1 roopers, so a strong t1 rush is not possible.

t2-Nothing special here, they got everything fullyupgraded now, but no strong points.

t3-early t3 is still kinda dull for them. Still no bonuses, more expensive air etc. However, later t3 they get better, Dark troopers kick @$$ and so do massed mechs which when t4 roles around are cheaply Fully upgraded.

t4-this is when they truely shine. Arguably the best mechs in the game with cheap upgrades, great assault mechs, etc. Their troopers are not too shabby either with most upgrades and the dark trooper. They got solid sith too, but be sure to bring lots of anit air for those sheilded fighters.

Overview-Terrible early game civ that relies on shear t4 power

Gungans

t1-on a water map, these guys rock in t1(underwater houses:)) but nothing special on land.

t2-again, on water these guys shine(cloaked ships) but nothing special on the land.

t3-great mechs come into play, they got bad air but mechs, siege and troopers all are good.

t4-Like the empire, this civ shines here. Awsome mechs and troopers, Portable sheilds and extra powerfull siege. Nice.

Overview-Another t4 powerhouse, but this one has a navy.

Rebels

t1-Good at early farming, might as well try a t1 rush as you have a slight advantage.

t2-Still just the farm thing but that is not bad. Good jedi rush, scout rush, or troop rush.

t3-As with all civs, things get good here. Great air(anyone who thinks air is not usefull ain't very good). Their mechs are fine, good troopers still got that farm bonus.

t4-sheilded air, great troopers, and great jedi makes a well rounded army. And of course, the food just keeps comin in with that farm bonus.

Overview- More well rouded than the empire, but less powerfull in t4.

Naboo

t1-better nova ming lets you gear up for that jedi rush

t2-The jedi rushing kings, that nova bonus really will hlep. If you don't jedi rush, the other rushes are not bad or you can go fst t3.

t3-Another great air civ. You can also still use those great Jedi. Use the troopers and mechs while you can, cause in t4, they suck.

t4-Sheilded air makes a good addition to an army but its the fortress units that really shine. Fully upgraded royal crusaders with 250 hp, sheilds, no conversion, and great speed, plus bounties with more hp, and every unit cheaper by 10%

Overview-Most unique civ, great in all ages if you play things right, terrible if you don't.

Trade federation

t1-No houses is nice, but don't expect to see the new huns, 20% slower carbon gathering is going to stop that rush fast.

t2-Again, you won't be seeing a super rushing civ, unless it's mounties or something because of that carno disadvantage.

t3-Another good mech civ, but this one is hurting from lack of carbon, they got the best t3 air(more hp, no cost'production disadvantage) which is good because that costs no carbon.

t4-Luckily, destroyers only cost 50 carbon giving them a great unit to rely on. Bring lots of mounties because you sure to find grenadiers and mech destroyers wating for you.

Overview-Really not the rushing civ they are expected to be, this carbon starved civ will need to use either lots of carbon workers or lots of mounties too compete.

Wookiees

t1-People say this will be a great trooper rush civ, why? They don't get healing troops till t4. Nothing special.

t2-Again, same old t2, can rush fine or can go t3 fine.

t3-Another good air civ. It's not a bad idea to start using troopers(if u have not already) Because they get Really good in t4(siege and air too)

t4-You got best troop center line out there, great(shielded)air, and the best sieege. Not to mention that berserker with it's jedi like stats for much less of a cosst

Overview-Kinda a briton/viking kind of civ, specializing in weak but cheap troopers. That's not a bad thing, and they also got a great unique unit and great air.:atat: :atat: :jarjar: :biggs: :amidala: :bdroid2: :ewok:
 xwing guy
11-11-2001, 5:34 PM
#22
Overview-Kinda a briton/viking kind of civ, specializing in weak but cheap troopers. That's not a bad thing, and they also got a great unique unit and great air.
I disagree with you there, I think the wookiees have strong troopers, but I may be wrong.
 Knights_Q2
11-11-2001, 10:12 PM
#23
Um, the wookies have the games best troopers. Troopers are cheap and weak but the wookies specialize in them. Since troopers are like a combination of the archer and infantry unit, I compared them to both the vikings and the britons who have good archers and infantry.
 DarthTenor
11-11-2001, 11:25 PM
#24
Nice overview there knights but I still don't believe there will be a dominant civ int the first tech level. Why? well the civs are too similar. I believe every civ can do some kind of rush. They won't have the same effect as they did in AOK. Sure the rebels have their farm bonus, the feds have their no house bonus, and the naboo have their nova bonus. But it balances out in the long run.

If you see ou are going to play a naboo player expect a jedi rush. I would say you're right about the naboo though Knight. Everyone is already saying that the jedi rush is one when they reach tech 2. The naboo's bonus might have to be changed to be like the wookies bonus. They dont get their carbon bonus until tech 3 & 4. Might I say I'm glad they don't get the early carbon bonus. Can you see strike mechs coming by the dozen if that was so.


maybe they loverooked the possibility that the jedi rush is hard to stop. now grant it a nice group of troops could end the jedi rush. Make sure you have some early. It would be so advantageous if his jedi's were to be stopped by a group of troopers. They lose alot of nova. Could be risky if the defender is prepared for the jedi rush.


Hey why am I talking about the Jedi rush. This is a post WHICH I STARTED about civ's uniqueness. Might I say I think that the real truth to see who is the best civ will be noted in the final tech level.
 Knights_Q2
11-12-2001, 9:22 AM
#25
That farm bonus for the rebels won't do much, I just wanted to find some civ with an advantage in t1 even if it was a pretty weak advantage.

As for the naboo, In some ways, I think it would bebetter for them to get it(their bonus) like the wookiees. However, on the other hand, that makes things less unique so sometimes I want the wookies to get theirs early like naboo(it's only 5% anyway) But I'm not sure, I have not played the game(please game, be at the store today) so I don't know how well it balences out.
 Maul403
11-12-2001, 5:12 PM
#26
cool
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