I'd really like to see the Moldy Crow in exquisite detail this time around. Even better, it would be excellent if we were able to wander around inside it, inspecting all the secrets that have thus far been concealed beneath her rusting hull.
Maybe there's a turbo-laser battery we could man and shoot enemies with.
Maybe there are secret smuggling compartments, holding ancient Jedi artifacts.
Maybe there's a Jedi training remote where you can hone your skills.
Even better, it would be cool if going inside the Moldy Crow and sitting at the cockpit was the mechanism to move between several of the missions, where applicable of course. I think that would make the game truly immersive.
Questions? Comments?
[ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: Vagabond ]
Ah the moldy crow, one of the things I most loved about the original DF was seeing the cut scene with the moldy crow flying to the rebels after the first mission. Remember this line "kyle delivers the plans to the rebel alliance...", so many times I heard that playing the demo before I got the full game.
Not seen quite as much in JK as was in DF, the start of most DF missions had the moldy crow lifting off, a nice addition to the game back in those days. I would point out the fact of scale, it would have to be made bigger. When you looked at you model, kyle, and walked next to the ship it looked as though he wouldnt even fit in there, let a lone Jan as well. Like excalibur to Arthur, The crow would be a great addition this time around to help kyle, maybe even a level where you anchor yourself to an enemy ship trying to escape and burn through thier hull only to have to fight the enemy crew all the way up to the cockpit.
[ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: Syndrix ]
Excellent idea, Syndrix, burning through the hull of a ship and boarding her. Kind of like the start of Episode IV in reverse...this time Kyle would do the boarding.
All of this would be great in-game. Having you go into the cockpit as a transfer to the next mission would provide for excellent immersion. I believe you mean turbo-laser battery Vagabond. I don't think we'll see one, 'cause only capital-ships or gunships carry those. However, we may see laser turrets like on the Millenium Falcon. That is probably what you meant, but I love to correct people. ;)
Didn't the Moldy Crow crash in JK. I thought it was totalled there. Still, the Moldy Crow II would work.
Yeah the Crow is toast. It crashed and burned at the Valley of the Jedi. Last I saw, Kyle was using a Tyderium class shuttle in Mysteries of the Sith.
But, still, the Crow is cool and Kyle should just buy a new one.
I like that breach, board and commandeer mission idea.
So would you guys prefer the same design or a whole new ship? I'm not sure yet.
It would be fun to walk around inside of it, or start a mission by collecting ammo there and then stepping off and have Jan meet you at the end. I don't really think it'd work for the player to be shooting, though. Just short of switching to a joystick for that short time, it could feel a little too Rebel Assultish. (Which would offer as much gameplay as Minesweeper, IMO. :))
Hmmm, good question bucky. I think they should take the Star Trek movie approach, whenver the latest incarnation of the Enterprise gets destroyed. So, I think they should update and modernize the Moldy Crow, but keep the same basic structure, and then call it the Moldy Crow II ;)
Wasn't the Tyderium shuttle stolen?
Not to be a punk ass but the Federation uses letters instead of numbers as the main distinction for the latest incarnation of vessels like the Enterprise, for example, the Enterprise E was destroyed when they self destructed to nail the Borg in First Contact. Watch me in turn get busted by a Trekie for false info. :p
As much as I liked the Moldy Crow, might I also suggest that we not use the old Jan drops kyle off bit for missions in JK2. I'm all for the next generation Moldy Crow making an appearance though. Perhaps it can be the.. uh... Moldier Crow... hmmm how about no on that actually.
Yes, he jumps into it at the end of the very first mission at Mysteries of the Sith. I doubt that an Imperial shuttle is Kyle's first choice as his main ride. It's not casual enough ;) He needs something that may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts ;)
Originally posted by Vagabond:
<STRONG>Hmmm, good question bucky. I think they should take the Star Trek movie approach, whenver the latest incarnation of the Enterprise gets destroyed. So, I think they should update and modernize the Moldy Crow, but keep the same basic structure, and then call it the Moldy Crow II ;)</STRONG>
Yeah, that makes sense. The good ol' Crow really doesn't have that much room to walk around in it, but I have to admit that the basic design is pretty fierce looking, and not too similar to any other ship in the SW universe! (Correct me if I'm wrong, because I really don't know that much about the SW universe. :))
Yikes! It must be everyone's lunch break now! hehe...
But why don't you like the idea of getting dropped off, Krayt? Just curious.
LOL....Moldier Crow :)
How about:
Stinky Swan
Funky Fowl
Mucky Mynock
;)
Kyle's too old to be trapsing around the galaxy in a junker hotrod. He needs to ramp up the style a bit, something roomier with space for the wife, kids, soccer team, ancient Jedi Relics, and 'stuff' that he will doubtless need to 'haul.'
Seinar Systems is having a sale on their Galactic Minivan line of personal transport. Although I think Kyle as more of an SUV type of Jedi.
Maybe graduate to a Corellian corvette class ship: the Nasty Nerfherder or Rotting Bantha. Maybe he could buy Dash Rendar's Outrider?
He only stole the shuttle and took it to the sith temple so that if anyone was watching it would just look like the imperials were there.
I like the thought of a Corellian Corvette - I've always had a soft spot for them. They just look so cool :)
Why the heck does everyone think Kyle is so old? He's only 5 years older than he was in MOTS tops. I know that because in the most recent chat with LEC, Haden Blackman said JK2 took place 13-14 years after the Battle of Yavin, which converts to 9-10 years after the Battle of Endor. MOTS took place somewhere in between JK2 and the Thrawn trilogy, because it couldn't be after JK2 and Mara Jade only became good after the Thrawn trilogy. So for all we know, Kyle could only be one year older!
I'd like them to call it the "decaying chicken"
What's wrong with Spring Chicken?
;)
How about the "decomposing fish"
or the "maggot-infested horse corpse"
maybe just the "horse corpse"
[ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: matt-windu ]
Stop guys, this is becoming a topic that does not belong in the Jedi Temple.
We are dicussing potential names for a ship in JK2. Why doesn't it belong?
Originally posted by En Taro Taldarin:
<STRONG>Why the heck does everyone think Kyle is so old? He's only 5 years older than he was in MOTS tops. I know that because in the most recent chat with LEC, Haden Blackman said JK2 took place 13-14 years after the Battle of Yavin, which converts to 9-10 years after the Battle of Endor. MOTS took place somewhere in between JK2 and the Thrawn trilogy, because it couldn't be after JK2 and Mara Jade only became good after the Thrawn trilogy. So for all we know, Kyle could only be one year older!</STRONG>
Yeah, you're right. According to the official EU timeline (as in that included on the Behind The Magic CD), MotS takes place 10 years after the Battle of Yavin - just before Luke sets up the Jedi Academy (ie, the Jedi Academy trilogy). So if JKII is 13-14 years after ANH, it's only up to 4 years post-MotS. I can't remember how old Kyle was supposed to be in DF - maybe in his early twenties? That would put him around his mid-thirties in JKII (I'm nearly that myself), so he's not that old.
As for the Moldy Crow...yeah, I agree that it should be another ship, not the original which crashed. Call it the Moldy Crow II, just for consistency - like Boba Fett has Slave I and then Slave II in the novels (I think). Damn these Jedi Mind Tricks - my memory is going. :D
Anyway, I liked the look of the Moldy Crow, so I think his new ship should be something similar. And I don't think he bought it. He should be a real Jedi Outcast, down on his luck, struggling to make ends meet as a non-Jedi. Maybe he wins the ship in a game of Sabacc...like good ol' Han won the MF.
Or maybe...just maybe...Jan Ors used her l337 skills to get the old Crow put back together... After all, where was she during MotS? She had connections, technical ability, and she could have been painstakingly rebuilding the ship, piece by piece... :D
Then again, maybe not. ;)
Originally posted by Wilhuf:
<STRONG>...something roomier with space for the wife, kids, soccer team, ancient Jedi Relics, and 'stuff' that he will doubtless need to 'haul.'
Seinar Systems is having a sale on their Galactic Minivan line of personal transport. Although I think Kyle as more of an SUV type of Jedi.</STRONG>
LOL! :D
Looks like he'll be too busy on Tuesdays hauling the soccer team around to get medival on some stormie ass! ;)
Originally posted by bsbuckeye21:
<STRONG>But why don't you like the idea of getting dropped off, Krayt? Just curious.</STRONG>
I don't want to go back to the ol' Dark Forces bit: Drop off---> Blow up/Get info/Play Solitaire---> Fly away back to rebels---> Repeat. That was perfectly suited for the original Dark Forces but this is a new time and a new game, it is time for something new. Jumping worlds is exciting and allows for new scenary and dangers, and I suppose he'll have to get there some how, but who says he has to keep getting dropped off by his closet-honeybunny Jan. I think it would allow for a silkier plot if he wound up catching a ride on am Imp Star Deuce which he had to explore/fight his way through or something of the like. Tranportation in JK2 can be a more exciting part of the story if they want, instead of just an afterthought.
[ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: Krayt Tion ]
I see what you mean, Krayt. I wouldn't like it if Kyle's dropped off every mission as well. But a scenario involving Kyle getting dropped off to do a quick and covert infilitration mission with him stealing something, and then running like hell for his life back to the Moldier Crow at the end would work nicely.
A "Thieve and Run"? I like that. But there need be lots of stormies!
I agree...the Moldy Crow needs to make a reappearance. I would feel pretty violated as a DF/JK fan to see another, lamer ship take it's place. Surely it is not 100% unique. Kyle and Jan must be able to find another one and bring it into action. I would like to see the hyperspace launch into space, and maybe even an intricate cut-scene dogfight that forces the Moldy Crow to land on some moon or world that has not been explored in any SW materials. Niether DF or JK explored the Moldy Crow in any detail...I hope JKII will do that. We'll see...
Swoosh
It depends upon how modified the Moldy Crow was and the availability of it's base model. Jan has had 5 years(Am I correct?) to make these modifications to the "decaying chicken"(that's what I'm calling it.)
I dunno, the concept of having a bigger ship you can walk around in between missions is kind of neat (a bit like the playstation Megaman Legends games for the 2 people here who've played them, two highly underrated games IMHO) but I vote the Moldy Crow makes a re-appearance. I don't give a damn how banged up it was at the end of JK, it's a video game for crying out loud. BTW, how destroyed did the crow look in JK anyway, my memory is a bit hazy, for suchj a small ship if Kyle survived the crash, it couldn't have been THAT totaled.
In fact, I remember reading an expanded-universe Star Wars novel where the Millenium Falcon nearly gets eviscerated, yet it still gets repaired. And even if they can't repair the same ship, they could get one like it and fix it up.
I want to reiterate that being able to wander around inside your ship before/after missions, where appropriate, would be incredibly cool.
Maybe Raven could make a level where you and Jan are in the cockpit of the moldy crow, and Jan is weaving thru some canyons, or maybe a city (Coruscant or Nar Shadda) shooting bad guys. Then she lands the crow, you jump out, grab a can of whooooooop ass and rip some bad guys apart!
MUWAHHAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!! :D :mad: :D :mad:
Darth Lunatic, that's a good idea for a cinematic sequence using the game engine. Imagine if you were sitting in the co-pilot seat as Jan piloted, and shot down some enemy fighters, or flew along the side of an Imperial Star Destroyer. That would be amazing! Great idea :)
This might even be a good segue into the previous idea of setting the Moldy Crow down and breaching the hull of a Star Destroyer as the start of a mission.
The Crow is completely destroyed in the crash at the Valley of the Jedi.
But Moldier Crow needs to make an appearance. However, I say leave the space combat to the next X-Wing Alliance. JKO should stick to its FPS roots.
But I do like the idea of using the Moldier Crow as a base of operations. From the Crow, Katarn can review the mission maps and briefings, use onboard analytic equipment, and outfit himself with weapons and equipment. Hey, he could even heal up in the Moldier Crow's built-in Bacta Tank.
It would be cool if Kyle could return to the Crow mid-mission. Katarn could heal up in-mission, provided that the Crow could remain secure within the mission area. You could even use the Crow as an interface for meta-game functions such as viewing game demos. (JKO will ship with demorecording, right?)
Raven should make the Crow a bit more persistent (e.g., the game doesn't end just because you enter the Crow. The game continues on.). That would make the game a lot more immersive, as has been said.
So, for example, Katarn and Orrs fly the Crow to the landing zone, and Orrs dusts off. Kyle would roundezvous with the Crow for equipment resuit, ammo reload, healing, analysis, or evacuation as required.
In some cases Kyle has to search for the Crow. Since Jan cannot safely land in the same landing zone, which is now covered by Stormies, she had to land in a different section of the mission area. JK basically did this, but the missions would always end when reaching the crow.
For instance, perhaps Kyle finds a Jedi Relic during his mission. He must return the Relic to the Crow, which has on-board analytical equipment that can decipher the strange symbols etched upon it. Once he's done that, the mission isn't over yet. Kyle must debark the Crow again, and continue on with updated mission parameters. This is much more persistent and immersive.
Perhaps Kyle may have to pilot as well, if Jan is captured by the Dark Jedi and their 'Dark Jedi Technology' for instance.
That's a good idea, Wilhuf. Just for clarification, I wasn't meaning that JKII should let us conduct any space combat. Merely that a cintematic sequence with Jan doing a small bit of space combat might add some dramatic flair as a precursor to the next episode.
And let me reinforce the idea that many of us came up with at OWK.net, that using the Moldy-ish Crow as a base of operations would be very cool. As you said, the built-in bacta tanks, visiting the ship throughout the mission, all those things would really add to the immersion and JKII lots more fun. A way of signalling the "end" of a mission might be to walk go into the cockpit and flip a switch (presumably the ignition sequence).
Yeah, some really cool ideas flying around here.
Personally, I'd also like to be able to beat a hasty retreat to the Crow while under fire, and be firing through an opening while it takes off. It might also be good if you had to Force Jump to reach the Crow because it can't land.
And Jan wouldn't even have to be piloting the ship - you could do that via remote. Come to think of it, how cool would it be if you were trapped, surrounded by a lot of stormies or other enemies, with little ammo...and then you call on the Crow, which comes in guns blazing, sets down, and you run inside?
There are just so many possibilities. I hope Raven feel they can implement some of these ideas.
Ya, great idea,StormHammer. I'd love to have a mission where I had to beat a hasty retreat to the Crow, with it's laser batteries providing covering fire as I ran up the ramp.
I love the idea of shooting out the open hatch as we live off, as the boarding-ramp slowly seals itself against the hull. Very cinematic :cool:
Originally posted by Wilhuf:
<STRONG>But I do like the idea of using the Moldier Crow as a base of operations. From the Crow, Katarn can review the mission maps and briefings, use onboard analytic equipment, and outfit himself with weapons and equipment. Hey, he could even heal up in the Moldier Crow's built-in Bacta Tank.
</STRONG>
Kind of like a Swat Van. :)
Yes a Galactic Swat Van. Or perhaps the van from The A-Team.
Or the Mystery Machine.
...Rruh-oh Rraggy!
Maybe when Kyle gets scared, he can go into the Moldier Crow and get a Jedi Snack<sup><font size="-3">TM</font></sup> to rejuvenate his courage.
Or the Mystery Machine.
Uh-oh I think I can here that T.V special "When good idea's go bad" sneaking up on you Vag. Just kidding. Some good idea's getting thrown around, I'd like to see the flying throught the canyon and then getting dropped off to complete your objectives cinematic/mission idea.
http://www.speakeasy.org/~jbmiller/AF/darth_velma.jpg)
Jinkies. Even Darth Velma likes the Moldier Crow base of operation idea.
Zoinks! Scooby-D2, where are you?!
Originally posted by Wilhuf:
<STRONG>Or perhaps the van from The A-Team.</STRONG>
All together now, *sings* "da-da-dum-dum da-da-dum-da..." etc. :)
Anyway... some excellent ideas. I think it would be possible to have a bit of combat onboard the Crow (or whatever it's called). Anyone remember the first level from Sin? You sat in a helicopter which someone else - an NPC - was flying, with a machine gun, shooting at criminals on the roof of a bank. The game was pretty crap, but it was an excellent set-piece to start the game with. Something like that wouldn't go amiss in Outcast.
Yipes. Catching the old man, disguised as a younger man, who owns the haunted house has worn me out. I think I need a scooby snack.
ed_silvergun, yes, I agree. Whether you're standing in the open hatch as Jan pilots you away or toward the action, or whether you're actually sitting in a gunwell on the Crow as you approach your landing zone, that would be really fun to me. Once you reach the LZ, Jan will yell at you to get out, and so the mission begins.
I'd love that :cool:
Old Man Jenkins, I knew it had to be him! I'm getting BA Baracus over here to handle da foo. Or is it Old Man Jenkin's evil Galactic Twin?
[ June 14, 2001: Message edited by: Wilhuf ]