There's nothing wrong w/ my gaming rig...a laptop. Works faster than my gaming desktop...w/ XP. Vista is the equal to XP when it comes to gaming...perhaps your machine just sucked if you had problems w/ Vista gaming...sure, if you wanted to look at it technically, there is a slight increase in usage of system resources over XP, but the difference isn't there (noticeable) when it comes to gaming...
People put all their crap on their machines, and when something slows it down...it's the OS! Just remember...whatever you put on your machine can cause just as many problems...

i don't know how many times i have to tell people this, but Vista uses more memory than XP because of Superfetch.Yeah, it's not that the OS itself is buggy and it has a UI that uses way too much in terms of memory/CPU usage.

um, nope. any opportunity to be inane, jmac is there.... \o/G****** right I am. Also take a look at this (http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/02/28/1746211.shtml).

People put all their crap on their machines, and when something slows it down...it's the OS!Indeed. I purposely loaded my laptop with viruses and spyware and dicked around with my registry so that I could say XP is way better.

Yeah, it's not that the OS itself is buggy and it has a UI that uses way too much in terms of memory/CPU usage.buggy?? not from what i've seen. i've had problems with drivers, but that has to do with the companies that write the drivers, not the OS. and last time i checked, Aero uses the GPU to render the GUI which frees the CPU for other tasks, and if you have a discreet card, Aero uses the memory on the card instead of the main memory.Goddamn right I am. Also take a look at this (http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/02/28/1746211.shtml).and) what does that prove?? yeah, people had problems with the computers that were labeled "Vista Capable" that, in the end, couldn't run Vista. that doesn't cover systems like mine nor other systems out there that currently don't have any problems with the OS. what you've posted is just too much of a generalization about something that is related to a pre-launch marketing campaign. does it affect computers that already have Vista installed and running?? absolutely not, and as such, i fail to see the relevance of posting it.

and i'm fine with you debating this, but i'm warning you not to curse like that again. you have been warned.

yeah, people had problems with the computers that were labeled "Vista Capable" that, in the end, couldn't run Vista. that doesn't cover systems like mine nor other systems out there that currently don't have any problems with the OS.Indeed sir, you are clearly a perfect example of the average end-user. And sorry for insinuating that computers labeled as "Vista Capable" should, in the end, be able to run Vista if those who are pro-Vista want others to give Vista more of a chance.

what you've posted is just too much of a generalization about something that is related to a pre-launch marketing campaign. does it affect computers that already have Vista installed and running?? absolutely not, and as such, i fail to see the relevance of posting it.What I've posted is a counter to Astro's statement that people who go out and buy Vista or purchase a computer that is marketed as "Vista Capable" and have it run horribly are lazy and/or dumb. It shows that they could also have been deceived by Microsoft lowering the minimum system requirements for Vista well below what they should have been.

and i'm fine with you debating this, but i'm warning you not to curse like that again. you have been warned.You quoted me before you edited my post :o

I agree that Microsoft buggered up monumentally with the whole "Vista Capable" thing, because it doesn't reflect the OS as such (by that I mean Vista Home Premium or Ultimate), but it's certainly put a dent in people's trust.

I haven't used it myself so I can't judge how it compares against XP, but I think Astro hit the nail by saying XP is the OS that exploded the whole internet computing generation and not to mention the exponential growth of laptops. For us geeks who've been online since Netscape was pwning IE or before, XP was just another OS from Microsoft, we had Win98 and 95 before that, and I personally had a love/hate relationship with those as well, just like I didn't warm up to XP from the start.
Point is, most people have only ever know XP, and most of the time they've known it as a mature, stable OS which is practically the standard for any drivers and peripherals you might need.

Another good point is (can't remember who said it) the horrible mistake Microsoft made by thinking the hardware side of computing would evolve as quickly as software, that people would upgrade components just to get a spanking new OS...Which makes you think the Vista Basic has been thrown in to keep the low-end market up to date with Vista as well, barely giving you any upgrade at all.
If you've got a decent rig, then I'm sure Vista a a very capable OS, but for most people who just want to use a PC for email and internet etc... (which I believe is a huge majority of people who own PCs), buying a system which can run Vista Home Premium is a bit overkill, hence the upcoming trend of Linux in the EEE for example, or the need to hang on to XP, as they both do all these things and more flawlessly, without costing as much and without needing up to date hardware...In the end, most people just don't need Vista, and it's Microsoft's fault for trying to make us all believe that they do, and I'm glad it blew up in their faces, it's just a shame it doesn't represent what a good OS Vista can be, but in the end there's only one way the finger can point at...

[/rant] *phew*

Indeed. I purposely loaded my laptop with viruses and spyware and dicked around with my registry so that I could say XP is way better.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said (sarcasm)...most people don't put crap on their computer intentionally, so that's why they think it's the OS's fault...no need to get defensive...

What I've posted is a counter to Astro's statement that people who go out and buy Vista or purchase a computer that is marketed as "Vista Capable" ...

*reads back his own posts*

aw cmon, I never mentioned people who went out and bought a 'vista capable' pc!!

I was talking about those jackasses who ran out and bought the disc and tried to force it on the P3 their dad bough them when they still had a mullet ;)

Those who bought a vista capable computer and are having some troubles have some legal meandering to do... Dell, Acer, Compaq etc are equally to blame for slapping those stickers on. Who the heck knows what is constituent in the licensing agreement between MS and those manufacturers, which is what any legal action will eventually fall on.

At the end of the day, the average user is squeezed out of the bigger picture, they often are :(

>>>negsun, can you post some juicy hardware news...this stuff is boring! Class actions, stickers, meh... I want FPS, TDP and GPU Model names with numerous XXXs in them :D >>also, w regard to the EEE, due to the overwhelming demand for XP on the EEE, asus will be shipping most subsequent EEEs with XP on it, further driving up the price of what was meant to be a budget pc alternative :( They did themselves no favours with that Xandros interface. You have to do some terminal window tweaking just to get into desktop mode. They should have slapped plain ole ubuntu or mint (etc) on it, to give it that windows familiarity that most people, especially kids would be used to.

mtfbwya

I think that you guys need to listen to Paul Thurrott a little better idea of how this crap gets told by one person, and it turns into fact...Vista isn't as bad as everyone (almost everyone) makes it out to be...

I think that you guys need to listen to Paul Thurrott a little better idea of how this crap gets told by one person, and it turns into fact...Vista isn't as bad as everyone (almost everyone) makes it out to be...

oh, I definitely wouldn't recommend Paul T amd his "windows supersite" as a font of unbiased facts !! ;) He got run out of 'The Green Button' (the worlds largest independent HTPC site) because of his ''repeated inaccuracies'', shall we say. He does do an OK job of spelling some things out in a way that average users can comprehend... which is great...as long as its content is accurate!! :lol:

All I recommend is people be sensible, and check for themselves ;) Listening to another persons experience can be helpful(as far as dos and don'ts) but wading through the rants is a tricky thing, and likely to colour ones objectivity about whether a product is appropriate for them...

For those wanting to try vista, you are legally entitled to install a copy of the OS without a product key, giving you a free 30 day trial. Make a partition on your HD and bobs your uncle :)

<<please do not ask here how to acquire a copy of the OS if you don't know someone who has one!!>>

Before you do this though, there are numerous places(online and in the real world) you can get 'compatibility checks' done but these are the golden rules, in priority order:

1) does your mainbaord/chipset have vista drivers
2) does the rest of your hardware(gfx card, sound card etc) have vista drivers
3) Do you heavily rely on certain apps? Check if they are vista compatible
4) do you have >1.5Ghz CPU
5) do you have 1GB RAM (you can scrape by with 512, but its simply not worth the hassle)
5) do you have at least 20GB free on a HD/partition

If the answer to ANY of these is NO, please save yourself the hassle and stick to XP/whatever you are using....

* * *

where's our roving reporter...?? I think we may have to review his contract given his recent absences :p

The Phenom X4 9850 Black Edition Review (http://www.guru3d.com/article/processor/521/)

Here's a snippet for you lazy buggers:

"Fact remains however that AMD's flagship product still needs to be sought in the mainstream market. And fair enough, AMD adopted the pricing strategy to that as the Phenom X4 9850 can be purchased at the $235 price point. And that's just not bad. Once we started overclocking the processor, we noticed that instantly we had a processor that could keep up with Intel's offering much better....

It is likely the cheapest quad-core processor you can find on the market, that's a lot of value & with this new B3 revision, a perfectly safe & stable product."

Competitive Pricing and decent performance - WIN, in my book :)

Speaking of WIN, here's a review of the amusing, but appropriately titled
EVGA nForce 750i SLI FTW "For The Win" mainboard.... clickity (http://www.guru3d.com/article/mainboard/525/)

again, a snippet:

"But this 750i SLI FTW is just an exceptionally good mainboard if your mission is to tweak and overclock. It has everything we as enthusiast PC users want. It looks cool, even comes with multi-channel sound, including TOSLINK optical output, fantastic performance, the sexy diagnostic LED, and it has micro switches for power on/off, reset and now also CMOS

...Final thought: Yeah the 750i SLI FTW went 'for the win' .. and it struck gold. It wins our 'best hardware award' it deserves nothing less."

lolz...they're such proud hardware geeks at G3D ;) Such a recommendation is nothing to be sneezed at... also worth bearing in mind is that EVGA products carry a lifetime warranty.... you cant beat that!

mtfbwya

Specs for Radeon HD4800 series leaked (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ati-radeon-4800,5223.html)

these R770-based cards actually aren't a really huge leap forward, but if these cards live up to this kind of hype, AMD/ATI will be able to definitively take the crown of Best Video Card away from Nvidia for a while. they're addressing a lot of issues that came with the 2900/3800 series of cards and giving it some insane memory bandwidth to boot. there's also lots of extra stream processors in this one, so it should prove to be a tour de force for those of us that have DX10.

the launch is supposed to be a within the next 2-3 weeks, so keep your eyes peeled. ;)

I don't think it's going to be much of a tour de force because Nvidia's upcoming GT200 will probably spank it, but as long as it keeps DAAMIT competitive with Nvidia, it's still good news.

I'm getting to the point where I want to upgrade my graphics card but I'll wait for the debut of NVIDIA's GT200 to see how it stacks up to AMD's latest and greatest. For the record, of late I've found NVIDIA quite annoying with their nonsensical product lineup. Is it G92, D9P, GT200? 9800 GTX uses the same chip as the 8800 GT. IMO it's all highly irritating that their product naming schemes no longer correlate with the GPU generation.

Well we're talking about AMD and nVidia, but Intel's looking into this market as well now, here's a bit more info on Larrabee (http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/602484/larrabee-will-use-rasterisation-in-games-not-ray-tracing/page1.html).
Looks like they're going for a completely different structure for 3D rendering, but will they pull it off? Give it a read it's quite interesting.

Speaking of Intel, looks like they're not giving up on the pummeling they're giving AMD just now, they've just announce an up to 50% price cut on Core 2 Quads (http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/602457/intel-slashes-core-2-quad-prices-by-50.html).
More ouch time for DAAMIT? I thinks so...Especially when you see that the X3 Phenom release (http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/602448/amd-releases-x3-phenoms-to-retailers.html) isn't too exciting at all...

Sorry if I've been MIA, lots of stuff going on ;)

Larabee and X3 as for the low-mid end/multimedia peeps ;)

Price drops are good news, no matter who is delivering them.

Lets hope R&D of Intel/AMD, nvidia/ATI are doing bananas because software/games devs are churning out are starting to outpace hardware capability....

Considering that BR drives will be standard within a cpl of years, and with SSD entering the mainstream, CPU and GPUs really need to step up a notch... Intel cant ride the breakthroughs of C2D forever, and AMD really need to live up to the promises their roadmap is making to have a whiff of a chance ;)

Im quite happy though, until anyone makes a card that can absolutely murder crysis at 1600p, im not upgrading :D I've been pouring my cash into other crap(satellite integration for my htpc, DLP projectors etc) :D

mtfbwya

Im quite happy though, until anyone makes a card that can absolutely murder crysis at 1600p, im not upgrading :D I've been pouring my cash into other crap(satellite integration for my htpc, DLP projectors etc) :D

mtfbwyaso, you'll be using a Radeon 6850X2 in the year of our Lord, 2012???

XD

so, you'll be using a Radeon 6850X2 in the year of our Lord, 2012???

XD

despite my AMD leanings in the CPU game, Ive never been able to shake my nvidia bias for GPUs. It had alot to do with the the CCC frazzling me in htpc builds, with artefacting, custom rez timing sisues ;)

So, in 2012 CE(not really into the Lord), it will moreso be the XFX 109950GTX XXX OC ULTRA edition I'll be keeping an eye out for ;)

It will probably cost as much as a small car, and require a similar power supply as one too :D

* * *

Some News>

9800GX2 in Quad and Tri-Sli, Crysis Still Pwnz (http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3271&p=4) and here clickity (http://www.rage3d.com/previews/video/nv9800gx2_quadsli/index.php?p=3)

single figure fps in 1600p...boo! :p

and MS Yanks SP3 for XP, Right before release! Huh?! (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11635)

mtfbwya

Well, I've been hearing bits and pieces about Nvidia's upcoming GT200. I'm not going to quote any sources because it's all unsubstantiated crap like Fudzilla and the Inquirer, both of which are about as reliable as a $2.00 watch. ;)

The buzz that's going around indicates a 512-bit memory bus, which addresses a serious bottleneck with the G92, but at the same time makes for an expensive chip. I haven't read anything about how many stream processors it will have, but the general rule of thumb is that a single GT200 card will perform about as well as the dual-G92 9800GX2, and that the new GPU will be about the same size as the G80, indicating a huge jump in the number of transistors.

That's about all I've heard so far.

I'm guessing we'll get official info about NVIDIA's GT200 within the next month or two. I'm looking forward/hoping for something more substantial than bumped clocks so as one might guess I've not been impressed with the 9800 GTX. If I had to get an NVIDIA card now I think I'd go with the 8800 GTS 512.

The buzz that's going around indicates a 512-bit memory bus...

Im hearing the same from my old nv beta testing cronies. I didn't include it here as hearsay is not a reliable source of information, and we aim for higher standards here!! :D

Might as well say "my brothers friend like really likes star wars, and like, said they are going to make episode 7-9, y'know,like...yeah"

still, whilst 512-bit is ok, Crysis at Max/1600p isnt going to get pwnt until someone spawns a 1024-bit bus, we all know that :)

mtfbwya

NVIDIA has revealed plans to simplify its gaming product range in order to appeal to a wider audience.

Speaking to GamesIndustry.biz, Roy Taylor, VP of Content Business Development, admitted that NVIDIA's current range of products is overcomplicated and too confusing for many customers. Taylor went on to say the company faced a "challenge" but needed to make its products more consumer friendly.

"It is a challenge that we're looking at right now. There is a need to simplify it for consumers, there's no question," Taylor explained.

"We think that the people who understand and know GeForce today, they're okay with it - they understand it. But if we're going to widen our appeal, there's no doubt that we have to solve that problem," he added.
Source: gamesindustry.biz (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/nvidia-to-simplify-product-range[/url)

Hey Mr. Taylor. I consider myself one of the people who "understand and know GeForce" but fyi I'm not understanding a lot of what NVIDIA is doing nowadays. So yeah, go ahead and widen NVIDIA's appeal in the marketplace but don't go off thinking that your existing customers are all well and good. :dozey:

I wouldn't worry too much Char Ell... all that stuff means is a naming convention revamp :) After 9950... 10xxx just doesn't look right. I personally like animal names:

256-bit>Hare
512-bit>Leopard
1024-bit>Cheetah

They should minimise the variation is framebuffer sizes... or abbreviate with

256MB > 2
512MB > 5
1024MB > X

and finally, and add on for those with specialised outputs > eg. HDMI

so, a 512-bit, 512MB card with HDMI out >

Nvidia Leopard5-HDMI :D

lolz

mtfbwya

New Radeon with 480 stream processors? (http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/602601/rumour-control-folding-forum-hints-at-next-radeon-with-480-stream-processors.html)
^ Interesting, we shall see what's true or not, and most importantly for Astro: can it pwn Crysis at 1600p??? :xp:


Is this the nVidia 9900? (http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/602577/rumour-control-is-this-nvidias-geforce-9900.html)
^ Again, looks quite intriguing...we might find out more soon enough hopefully :)


Corsair breaks memory speed record! (http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/602616/corsair-breaks-memory-frequency-record.html)
^ Another good bit of info...here's an interesting snippet though:

"This could change when Intel moves to its Nehalem architecture CPUs; these bring the memory controller (which currently resides in the Northbridge) on-board, giving the potentially for dramatically cutting latency and improving bandwidth. Triple-channel memory is also expected for Nehalem, which will further enhance memory performance."

This could spell even more ouch-time for AMD who have been using this technology for a while now but are still playing catch-up with Intel's Quads...

According to Daily Tech (http://www.dailytech.com/Nextgen+NVIDIA+GeForce+Specifications+Unveiled/article11842.htm) the new graphics card from NVIDIA will start a new naming convention.
- GeForce GTX 280 (D10U-30) is supposed to have 240 unified stream processors and a 512-bit bus.
- GeForce GTX 260 (D10U-20) is supposed to have less than 240 unified stream processors and a 448-bit bus.
- The shaders on these new GPU's are supposed to perform 50% better than the D9 GPU's
- still only supports DirectX 10.0
- PhysX engine is now part of the D10U shader engine

I guess I'll just wait until June 18 to see if this all turns out to be true but it looks like I won't be buying a GeForce 9900 GTS after all.

According to Daily Tech (http://www.dailytech.com/Nextgen+NVIDIA+GeForce+Specifications+Unveiled/article11842.htm) the new graphics card from NVIDIA will start a new naming convention.

I wouldn't worry too much Char Ell... all that stuff means is a naming convention revamp

lolz...now > this weeks lotto numbers will be :

made ya look

mtfbwya

Heh. Yeah, you called it. As long as NVIDIA sticks to a sensible naming convention then I'm good. IMHO the 8800 GT should really have been called the 9800 GT.

I'm eagerly anticipating the comparison reviews for the new AMD and NVIDIA graphics cards next month. I've pretty much stuck with NVIDIA for the past few years but I'm going to give AMD serious consideration this time around.

Well, all I know is that DAAMIT's new 48xx series will have to be one hellatious value for me to want to attempt to tolerate the pathologically hated Catalyst Control Center.

On a more positive note, one good thing about a new generation of video cards is that the prices of the previous generation are sure to tank. 8800GTXs can be had right now for around $200.00, and the next gen isn't even out yet. Good news for the budget-consious that don't feel the need to play Crysis, as the current gen plays just about every other game well.

an 8800GTX is nothing to be sneezed at - even in mid end crysis. thats super value ;)

astro

For people like me on a smaller budget and who doesn't play the latest FPS games (I.E.: Crysis, CoD4, etc...), last gen's top-end cards at bargain rates are excellent!!!

My choice would be between an 8800GT/GTS or an HD3850/70, perfect for resolutions up to 1680x1050 and easy on the wallet :)

For people like me on a smaller budget and who doesn't play the latest FPS games (I.E.: Crysis, CoD4, etc...), last gen's top-end cards at bargain rates are excellent!!!

My choice would be between an 8800GT/GTS or an HD3850/70, perfect for resolutions up to 1680x1050 and easy on the wallet :)

more than adequate for that rez. Even with my 1600p, im not budging off my 8800GTS 512 until they make that single PCB card that is a crysis killer!!
(and will fit in my case hehe)

mtfbwya

and will fit in my case hehe
Nae chance of that happening pal, if anything they just keep getting bigger and bigger... :naughty:

Well, here (http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3326) is the first concrete preview of Intel's new Nehalem architecture. Looks like it will be as much of an advance over Core2 as Core2 was over Netburst.

Nae chance of that happening pal, if anything they just keep getting bigger and bigger... :naughty:

nah, thats just those stoopid GX2 cards. Who wants one of them. The P2 shuttles can fit dual slot 8800GTS, its only when you get cards with add on cooling kit that they become ridiculous :) With the transistor count jump the next gen of GPUs are getting, they could pull the equivalent of an 8800GTS on one PCB ;)

@Q >>Hav eyou noticed that CPU news is so anticlimactic these days!!... apart from a morbid interest to see if phenom is going to get a decent >3.0 incarnation, its all ho-hum. The performance ceilings have hit.... GPUs where all the action is... games like crysis have thrown down the gauntlet to nvidia and those clowns at ATI. Nehalem or not, any rig is still going to get its ass kicked by the almighty crytek engine :D

mtfbwya

I wants a Shuttle! But not the rubbish new ones with like 250W PSUs...

Yeah this Intel pummeling AMD thing isn't even funny anymore...it makes it very hard for AMD fanboys like myself to consider purchasing any of their hardware.

Pretty soon I'll have to start looking at Intel stuff for a new rig, unless AMD has a major trick up its sleeve shortly (highly unlikely) or I don't upgrade my PC until the Fusion is out (maybe a bit more likely :xp: )

Well, here (http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3326) is the first concrete preview of Intel's new Nehalem architecture. Looks like it will be as much of an advance over Core2 as Core2 was over Netburst.
I've been eagerly anticipating the release of Nehalem. Bloomfield CPU is what I'm waiting for. I'm hoping to upgrade next year. Of course if AMD releases a competitive product I'll check it out too but it doesn't look like the chances of that happening are very good.

I wants a Shuttle! But not the rubbish new ones with like 250W PSUs...

Look around at sudhian, a 250W PSU supplying a flex-atx mainboard can do much more... many report they have their 8800GTS running off one. You could definitely get an 8800GT running on one easily :) The whole power profile changes with f-atx, only 2 exp slots, less peripheral slots, and always a good strong 12V rail to the pcie.

Still, the budget kpcs arent the way to go if youre aiming at a gaming pc. The P2 series are the ones built for the gaming crowd, and come in intel and amd flavours.

I dont see any impetus to change my CPU or GPU yet, as the highest end of both will not give me anything more than a slideshow in crysis at >HD.

mtfbwya

Well I would favour an HD3870, which apparently is more friendly to the environment than any nVidia 8-series offerings , so that might be doable then...I wouldn't slap an X2 6400+ in there either, the 5000+ Black Edition or one of the 45W BE series would do me...

@Q >>Hav eyou noticed that CPU news is so anticlimactic these days!!... apart from a morbid interest to see if phenom is going to get a decent >3.0 incarnation, its all ho-hum. The performance ceilings have hit.... C'mon, Astro. If this news was about an AMD chip you'd be dancing in the streets. ;) I think it's pretty huge, myself.

I don't think that things are as black for AMD as the general consensus would lead us to believe. There are two reasons for this:

1) There have been people who have O/Ced the 9x50 versions of Phenom and have indicated that at around 3Ghz it begins to close the IPC gap with Kentsfield and even Yorkfield at that speed. These reports are not from AMD fanboys but from O/Cers who own Intel systems and built Phenom boxes out of curiosity. If AMD's 45nm die-shrink of Phenom (Shanghai?) can run at these speeds, there are indications that it will at least be competitive with Yorkfield. Shanghai should also correct several faults with Phenom's architecture, like it's horrible cache arrangement.

2)Nehalem rigs will be prohibitively expensive to build until the mainstream versions become available sometime in late 2009 (I think), and they will still be expensive even then because they will probably require much more expensive DDR3 (again, I think). GPUs where all the action is... games like crysis have thrown down the gauntlet to nvidia and those clowns at ATI. Nehalem or not, any rig is still going to get its ass kicked by the almighty crytek engine :D The next generation of GPUs from both camps are set to deal with this shortcoming, and Crysis is more useful as a benchmark than as a game that people will actually play. :D Well I would favour an HD3870, which apparently is more friendly to the environment than any nVidia 8-series offering Huh? Who told you this? Last time I checked, the power consumption ratings between the 3870 and the 8800GT were very similar; so similar as to be unworthy of consideration, IMHO. :confused:

C'mon, Astro. If this news was about an AMD chip you'd be dancing in the streets. ;)

morbid curiosity does not equal dancing in the streets ;) I would be very pleased if they released a fusion CnGPU that can do 1080p multimedia :D This would open the door for great small form factor media center rigs :)

Crysis/The Crytek engine is indeed a great functional benchmarking tool....as is Oblivion, FEAR, GRAW etc... not everyones cup o tea to play of course ;)

I dont mind it... I prefer sports n RPG games though, purely a personal preference of course :D

I think the 3850 are a bit more easier on the hip pocket to acquire, which Im guessing is negsuns main consideration.

mtfbwya

With our roving tech reporter MIA(negsun is reportedly stuck in an elevator at Skywalker Ranch, after picking up his first moderator paycheck :)), heres some news and reviews to have a squiz at:

PCI -express 3.0 details (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,2319727,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532)

skinny: Twice as fast at 2.0, backwards compatible(ie. your pci-e 2.0 kit wont be useless in a pci-e 3.0 slot)

If you are a tech uber nerdgenius, this may make sense to you :)

The amount of information transferred will depend on how wide the channel is; a x16 channel is the norm today, but the spec allows up to x32 lanes, each transferring 250 Mbytes/s at PCI Express 1.1 speeds and about 500 Mbytes/s at PCI Express 2.0 speeds. At PCI Express 1.1 speeds, thirty-two lanes of 250 MB/s (PCIe 1.1) gives a maximum transfer rate of 8 Gbytes/s, or 16 Gbytes/s at PCI Express 2.0. By removing the requirement for an 8-bit/10-bit encoding scheme found within PCI Express 2.0, PCIe 3.0's 8-gigatransfer/s bit rate effectively delivers double the PCI Express 2.0 bandwidth

Secondly, how about the XFX 9800GX2 Black Edition (http://www.guru3d.com/article/xfx-geforce-9800-gx2-black-edition-review/)

skinny:
Crysis at medium 0AA/16AF
55FPS at 1080p ; 49FPS at 1600p

Not bad ;) Still, GX2 cards are not, and never will be cost or power efficient. Lets see what the next gen of GPUs will do ;)

Of course, the ATI 3870 1024mb offering is still chasing the 8800Ultra.... sheez. Even the most die hard AMD/ATI fan will surely be starting to feel demoralised (covers sig) after the relentless arsekicking they are getting on all fronts from a gaming CPU/GPU POV...

Maybe they should look for some new staff?? Theyre obviously not doing something right! :p

mtfbwya

Sorry Astro, but I've been doing like a marathon run at my work and it feels like everytime I'm off, I'm still crazy busy...

PCI-E 3 looks good, can't wait to see what new generations of GPUs are gonna squeeze out of that puppy.

I do agree it's getting beyond embarrasing for AMD now, they need a serious miracle to save their rep and maybe even their company.

...I do agree it's getting beyond embarrasing for AMD now, they need a serious miracle to save their rep and maybe even their company.

I dont know if they'll go down yet, they always seem to have a place in the middle end, notebook and server market, not to mention the multimedia/htpc crowd(though theyre going to need a performance booster even in that with the increasing uptake of BRay) Also, they seem to be making grounds in the mobile market, apparently having spawned a mobile device GPU that can do '360 level graphics'

Still, the main questions people have of AMD:
*When are your high end 45nm quads coming ?? (are they coming at all?!!)
*When is fusion happening?

A bit of $$$ riding on those two questions alone :D

It would really SUCK to see intel/nvidia take a monopoly on the gaming market(arguably, they already have one).....

mtfbwya

Well, here (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3334&p=1) is Anand's review of Nvidia's GT200 cards. What a power-sucking monster it is! And Astro was right: Crysis has yet to be decisively mastered. The funny thing is that the 9800GX2 is actually a better buy than the GTX280, as it outperforms it in a lot of games and costs $150 less. :p Ridiculous!

Looks like DAAMIT really has a chance to pull a price/performance rabbit out of its hat here. We'll find out soon.

:lol: My eyes glazed over after reading the first several pages about the new architecture.

Power wise I didn't think it was all that bad. NVIDIA seems to have done a good job of reducing power consumption at idle, coming in 13 W lower than the 9800 GTX while having a lot more stream processors to keep running. But it sure does gobble up the watts when it puts those 240 stream processors to use.

I have to agree that the price/performance ratio doesn't make the cut. Makes me think I should just go ahead and buy an 8800 GTS 512 and wait for NVIDIA to release the GTX 200 on a 55 nm or smaller process. I wonder what name they'll give to those GPU's? GTX 285 and 265? GTX 380 and 360? Whatever. :dozey:

I guess AMD should be revealing their latest GPU product later this week. I'll have to see what they've come up with.

For 1680x1050 and below, I'd still look no further than an HD 3850/3870, unless you must get max settings and framerates in CoD4 or other such games...

But the 8800GT is so much prettier negsun. Surely worth a couple of extra paper rounds :D

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/nvidia/8800gt/883qtr.jpg)

mtfbwya

For 1680x1050 and below, I'd still look no further than an HD 3850/3870, unless you must get max settings and framerates in CoD4 or other such games... I'm looking for a graphics card that will generally allow me to play at 1920x1200, medium settings, 4x AA, 8x AF, at acceptable frame rates for most games and won't cost me more than USD$250. As far as I can tell 30 fps and above is acceptable to me. :)

Well, here it is folks > ive included a summary for you in the hyperlink :)

RV770 (HD 4850) matches a 8800GT OCX, costs more (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=579&type=expert&pid=3)

sigh AMD, sigh ;) The horse that seems content with running second, ALL THE TIME!

mtfbwya

It soundly beats (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3338) the 8800GT and trades shots with the 9800GTX for $200. Note how well it does at higher resolutions.

If it's any indication of how good this card is, Nvidia has announced a drastic price cut of the 9800GTX (to $200) as well as the pending release of a "9800GTX+" featuring a die-shrunk (55nm) G92 and higher clock speeds for $230.

With the 4850 as good as it is, I eagerly look forward to reviews of the 4870. Indications are that DAAMIT has a price/performance winner on their hands. Let the price wars begin! :D

Yes, I too await test results of the 4870. I'm getting fed up with NVIDIA's antics (surprise announcing a 55 nm version of the 9800 GTX, big price drops on existing products once AMD showed their hand, product naming conventions, etc.) so if the 4870 looks good on the price/performance/power metrics I'm looking for I'll likely buy it.

Keep in mind that the 4850 has a single-slot cooler that exhausts hot air into your case whereas the 9800GTX/GTX+ both have a double-slot cooler that exhausts out of your case. Since most of the reviews show this cooler to be woefully inadequate (a la the 8800GT), it would probably be wise to wait until DAAMIT's board partners start shipping 4850s with their own non-reference double-slot coolers.

It also looks like DAAMIT has finally overcome the dismal AA performance of the 29xx and 38xx series. This is going to be a very interesting summer. ;)