Thread ripped in two. This is the spinoff of this thread (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=183044). ~tk102

I think that God wants followers to see if they are actually loyal to Him. I think that if you are playing a game when a "god" is the main character, it is sinful. 1st commandment out of the 10 commandment is " You shall have no other Gods but me. " Playing a game that makes you a god is not right in the Eyes of my God.

Playing a game that makes you a god is not right in the Eyes of my God.don't click me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_&_White_(game))

don't click me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_&_White_(game))
thats not cool man :(

Edit:
Anyway, any help would be good, especially from the Chrisitan wing of the LF Board.
YOu asked the "Christian wing", and Christians only believe in one God.

Use the edit button instead of double posting, please. :) --Jae

I'm god enough in The Sims, where I control all the tiny little people :xp:
But forgive me if this was stated already, but what genre would this game be? Adventure, Fighting, RPG, RTS, MMORPG (for more gods than Mt. Olympus :D) It could be a game like the Sims, where you create the universe, and make sure it doesn't destroy itself, and you also have the ability to do things to the people, like make them drop dead, pick them up and throw them in the ocean, and other things which are meaningless, yet also addictive fun. *sigh,* if only it was possible in real life, I'd pick up some WBC protesters, and throw them into the Bermuda Triangle. And yes, in this game, the Bermuda Triangle should exist, as well as Bigfoot, so you could pick him up and put him in a taxi cab. Other activities include creating a plague of locusts inside a restaurant (which would severely lower their health department grade), creating natural disasters, rebuilding cities, knocking them down again with another natural disaster, and burning bushes (not the president... unless you enter a cheat code :lol: )

P.S. How come the Christian God is the only one you can't make video games about?

Eyes of my God.
Do you capitalize every body part of God's? Like would a crescent moon be "His Toenail" or something?


Also tee kay that game is awesome.

Uh...Rev, you don't have any clue what you're talking about. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is talking about Polytheism, not talking about playing computer game where you play a god. Geez.

Uh...Rev, you don't have any clue what you're talking about. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is talking about Polytheism, not talking about playing computer game where you play a god. Geez.
Actually I think that I do know what I am talking about. Scope said, " 1) Is playing as an all-mighty god somehow "scarligeous" or "sinful"?" I only put in my two cents.

I don't think I'm going to hell for playing Black & White. :rolleyes:

I don't think I'm going to hell for playing Black & White. :rolleyes::lol: I hope not, or i shalt be condemned to the fiery pits myself!

Having an opinion automatically make it a valid one? :)
I said, "just putting in my two cents". :) That is what I believe to be true, and no one has to take that in to be the truth for themselves. :)

I ask that every time someone says they want to play as Revan in K3. :D

Mask of the Betrayer starts at level 18-20, KotOR III can too!

I think that if you are playing a game when a "god" is the main character, it is sinful.

(Why?)

I do know what I am talking about. Scope said, " 1) Is playing as an all-mighty god somehow "scarligeous" or "sinful"?" I only put in my two cents.

I said, "just putting in my two cents". That is what I believe to be true,

The third time's a charm, I think I've got your opinion down now. All that's left to explain is why I should consider it valid.

(Say, perhaps a thread-splitting to Kavar's would be a good idea if the sinfulness of deified video game characters is discussed any further?)

I never said that you had to take my opinion and beleive it to be true. I know this may be off topic, but Christianity is based on faith, ED. :) We all get to choose what we believe in, and this just happens to be what I believe in. :)

Uh, ED, opinons are just that, opinons. They don't need to be justified. I'm okay with Rev7 says.

Thank you SilentScope. :)

I never said that you had to take my opinion and beleive it to be true. We all get to choose what we believe in, and this just happens to be what I believe in.

I'm glad to hear that you've found something you believe in. Unfortunately, however, it still hasn't gotten rid of that annoying question of mine. :( I could say, for instance, "It is sinful to wear blue pants." Most people's reaction to this would be "Why do you think it is sinful to wear blue pants?" were my response to be "I believe it is sinful to wear blue pants. You do not have to believe the same," it probably wouldn't be very satisfactory to whoever asked, namely because it doesn't answer the question. I guess that's what comes with believing in Absolute Truth.

You've stated numerous times I don't have to believe your opinion. Good to know you think so, but not terribly relevant. If you would claim to have a valid opinion on a matter you should at least be able to explain why you believe as you do. Nothing is right simply 'because it is'.

Uh, ED, opinons are just that, opinons. They don't need to be justified.

My opinion is that they do. And don't tell me I'm wrong, it's an unjustifiable opinion. You've admitted so yourself. :p

I'm glad to hear that you've found something you believe in. Unfortunately, however, it still hasn't gotten rid of that annoying question of mine. :( I could say, for instance, "It is sinful to wear blue pants." Most people's reaction to this would be "Why do you think it is sinful to wear blue pants?" were my response to be "I believe it is sinful to wear blue pants. You do not have to believe the same," it probably wouldn't be very satisfactory to whoever asked, namely because it doesn't answer the question. I guess that's what comes with believing in Absolute Truth.

You've stated numerous times I don't have to believe your opinion. Good to know you think so, but not terribly relevant. If you would claim to have a valid opinion on a matter you should at least be able to explain why you believe as you do. Nothing is right simply 'because it is'.

Christianity is based on faith, ED. Generally the only proof is the Bible, and your own personal experiences. That is really all that I can think of. Besides, I have NEVER stated that it "is right simply because it is". Not once. I am also very glad that you finally "get" my opinion now. :)

Er...to better example Rev7's ideology:

Think of it this way. By pretending to be God, you can do stuff that, well, the real God wouldn't do. You could say, "Oh, the real God is moronic for not doing A, so I'll do A." Playing as God therefore would allow you to take up the role of God, and think you are as GOOD as God, even though, well, you only have the intellect of a human, and God's intellect is too vast for you to comprehend. You will do something that the real God won't like, and besides, to pretend to be God and do what God would do is an act of hubris.

I think.

...along those lines yes...

Different genre with different kinds of characters! :p :D

I cite Revenge of the Sith and any other SW game that involves playing powerful Jedi from the start, touche Prime! :P

Christianity is based on faith, ED. Generally the only proof is the Bible, and your own personal experiences.

Since your case about sinful deified video game characters appears to have been drawn entirely from the bible's word we can discount the latter.

While I'm glad you've been able to tell me 'because the bible says so' rather than 'because this is what I believe', I'm afraid you've still not provided a sufficient answer. :( If you could explain that answer further (whether it's because you think the bible presents a sound argument against deified video game characters or because you think everything in it is true simply because it's the bible) that would go a long way in explaining your position.

I have NEVER stated that it "is right simply because it is".

The foundation of your argument relies upon it being wrong because the bible says so, in other words an appeal to authority. Until you explain further your reasoning for taking what it says for granted (or in your case, taking your extrapolation of what it has said for granted) you are basically saying 'it's right because <unarguable person/idea/thing> says it's right.' However, that can be augmented with what I mentioned in the above paragraph.

I think.

You don't, otherwise you wouldn't have started this thread. :p If you'd like me to argue those points with you as if they were your opinion, however, just give the heads up and I'd be glad to.

You will do something that the real God won't like, and besides, to pretend to be God and do what God would do is an act of hubris.

The question is: Why would God dislike something humans do? Since the human intellect is so negligibly miniscule, God would hardly care about what humans do, and instead think of our wars and inventions as real cute (I can imagine him posting 'lolhumans' pictures all over 4chan). Besides, since God is in control, he can just avert us from doing something wrong.

Once again, something in religion that makes no sense!

Once again, something in religion that makes no sense!Once again, something in religion that is caught with phrases like "god moves in mysterious ways".

Since this is turning into another religious debate, I'm moving it to Kavar's

Since this is turning into another religious debate, I'm moving it to Kavar's

/shakes head. Erm.

Um. tk, is it possible to move it back to Ahto.. or maybe spiltting the topic...

not the cleanest split, but done ~tk

If you'd like me to argue those points with you as if they were your opinion, however, just give the heads up and I'd be glad to.

Not my opinion. His opinon. *points to Rev7* I don't believe in his opinon (why I am thinking of this God Game after all :) ), but I wanted to articulate it for him, just because.

I said "I think" because I think that was what Rev7 believed in, that was his opinon. Now that Rev7 confirmed, I can now retract the "I think" comment, because now that I know that is what Rev7 believed in.

To be specific, "thou shalt not have any god's before Me." is referring to believing in other gods before God-god. You could, in theory, believe in other deities second, third, fourth, ect...to God, if we're only taking that one Commandment into question here. I'm sure there are more lines that say "no other gods AT ALL", and if somebody would like to provide them, I would be glad to see some.

In any case, I think video game gods don't count here for a couple of very valid reasons.
A: You know the "god" you are playing as is digital, and has no relevance to reality(as other historical deities would.)
B: you know it's all pretend. Since digital people can't choose to worship God-god, you are taking nothing away from God-god that He could have had. Which is where the whole "no god's before me" comes in because you're making people worship you instead of Him.

Now, if it is your(Rev7), personal beliefe, from what you have interpreted from you're experiances and how YOU think the Bible applies, then the following statement by you:
Playing a game that makes you a god is not right in the Eyes of my God.
is inaccurate, and should read more along the lines of: "I believe that from what I have read regarding my religion and how I have personally interpreted my religion that it is not OK in my opinion to pretend to be a god in a digital format." Or something along those lines with an excessive amount of times noting that it's you're opinion.

otherwise, as has been asked, I would request of you to provide lines beyond "thou shalt not have any god's before me" from the Bible to back up you're claim.

is inaccurate, and should read more along the lines of: "I believe that from what I have read regarding my religion and how I have personally interpreted my religion that it is not OK in my opinion to pretend to be a god in a digital format." Or something along those lines with an excessive amount of times noting that it's you're opinion.

I think that was joke mate...

To be specific, "thou shalt not have any god's before Me." is referring to believing in other gods before God-god. You could, in theory, believe in other deities second, third, fourth, ect...to God, if we're only taking that one Commandment into question here. I'm sure there are more lines that say "no other gods AT ALL", and if somebody would like to provide them, I would be glad to see some.

In any case, I think video game gods don't count here for a couple of very valid reasons.
A: You know the "god" you are playing as is digital, and has no relevance to reality(as other historical deities would.)
B: you know it's all pretend. Since digital people can't choose to worship God-god, you are taking nothing away from God-god that He could have had. Which is where the whole "no god's before me" comes in because you're making people worship you instead of Him.

Now, if it is your(Rev7), personal beliefe, from what you have interpreted from you're experiances and how YOU think the Bible applies, then the following statement by you:

is inaccurate, and should read more along the lines of: "I believe that from what I have read regarding my religion and how I have personally interpreted my religion that it is not OK in my opinion to pretend to be a god in a digital format." Or something along those lines with an excessive amount of times noting that it's you're opinion.

otherwise, as has been asked, I would request of you to provide lines beyond "thou shalt not have any god's before me" from the Bible to back up you're claim.
Dude, I honestly try to keep it simple, and not try to be fancy (all the time). I know that Neopolian said once, "Write as if you are writing to the village idiot" and I generally try to follow that. I THINK that it is not ok to play a game when you are a "god" as the main character. That would be considered, in my eyes, you not putting The One True God ( my "opinion") first. I FOLLOW the bible because I ( in my opinion) beleive it to be true. I also know that my God changed the life of many people. For example, Paul's ( or Saul's) life was completely altered because of God. Saul murdered many christians during his life, but one day gave his life to God. Now he was known as Paul at this time. I know that you guys will MOST LIKELY say, Is there any proof of Paul's existance? I would only say that, was there any proof of there being slaves in America at one point in time? I know this to be true because it was RECORDED. :)

Neopolian?

Anyway, just because you have faith in something, doesn't mean there's not a reason for it. I believe in God because I've seen his presence in mine and other people's lives, I can't really imagine life without something more, the idea of my consciousness being completely erased when I die scares the hell out of me, and the theory of Evolution and the Big Bang don't seem to hold water from my perspective.

There is evidence aside from the Bible that Jesus and his followers were real men. Jesus' existence is pretty much a fact. Whether or not he really preformed miracles, rose from the dead, or was the Son of God is all up in the air, obviously.

Anyway, you're avoiding the question with canned Christian Rhetoric. Why is it sinful to play a God Game? What if you weren't playing as a God, but merely a Demigod? Or maybe a Demiurge? Is Baldur's Gate sinful? What about Planescape: Torment?

Uh, ED, opinons are just that, opinons. They don't need to be justified. I'm okay with Rev7 says.

One hopes that one would put thought into an area before settling on one's own opinion. The worst kind of opinion is that which is unjustified.

Edit:
Neopolian?

Napoleon... I think. :)

Right. Just because it's an opinion doesn't mean you just pull it out. Everyone has a reason for their opinions, even if the reasons are fairly abstract or are hard to put into words. I don't think I've ever seen an unjustified opinion. Poorly justified ones, yes, but never one that was completely unjustified.

Right. Just because it's an opinion doesn't mean you just pull it out. Everyone has a reason for their opinions, even if the reasons are fairly abstract or are hard to put into words. I don't think I've ever seen an unjustified opinion. Poorly justified ones, yes, but never one that was completely unjustified.

Of course, we could go on for ages about exactly how to define a "reason" as a valid, be it good or bad, justification for thinking a certain way about a specific thing.

What if you weren't playing as a God, but merely a Demigod? Or maybe a Demiurge? Is Baldur's Gate sinful? What about Planescape: Torment?Good question. :) How about Overlord where you play a sort of Sauron-like character, commanding minions to smash and destroy?

Maybe we're all just minions in God's video game. If so, and you believe he created us in his own image... :p

Something I've been wondering while I was reading through this thread: If it's not ok to play a game where you "pretend" to be a god, what makes it ok to play a game where you slice countless people in half with a lightsaber? "Thou shalt not murder" is another of the Ten Commandments.

Something I've been wondering while I was reading through this thread: If it's not ok to play a game where you "pretend" to be a god, what makes it ok to play a game where you slice countless people in half with a lightsaber?
Plot holes.

No, you're thinking of Selective Morality.

Something I've been wondering while I was reading through this thread: If it's not ok to play a game where you "pretend" to be a god, what makes it ok to play a game where you slice countless people in half with a lightsaber? "Thou shalt not murder" is another of the Ten Commandments.
That is very true ; I never thought about that. Umm, you know, I don't know how to answer that question. I guess that that is a sin that I have commited, and you have brought it the light (for me). Anyways, I will have to think on that for a while and get back to you guys, because frankly, right know I don't know how to respond to that right now.

BTW-- Neopolian- the famous french leader general/ leader/emperor/dictator figure.

No, you're thinking of Selective Morality.
Either or, really.

Umm, you know, I don't know how to answer that question.It's pretty easy really.

"Thou shalt not murder" != "Thou shalt not simulate murder"

It's pretty easy really.

"Thou shalt not murder" != "Thou shalt not simulate murder"
It is in the eyes of The Lord.

It's pretty easy really.

"Thou shalt not murder" != "Thou shalt not simulate murder"
That I already knew, tk. I was, I guess you could say a little bit "stunned" because Capt. Sparrow was 100% correct with what he said. My question to all christians who view this thread, why do we play video games that are like that, if we know it to be sin? Me, I am gonna do my best to get off of those kinda games from now on, it WILL be difficult, but now that that has been said, that is something that I will have to do. I am still going to do a little research and think about that this weekend. :)

"Thou shalt not murder" != "Thou shalt not simulate murder"
That I already knew, tk...why do we play video games that are like that, if we know it to be sin? I think you missed my implication of "therefore not a sin" part.

I think you missed my implication of "therefore not a sin" part.
Sorry tk, I did miss that. :)

BTW-- Neopolian- the famous french leader general/ leader/emperor/dictator figure.

I'll be polite, it's Napoleon.

Wouldn't even simulated murder have to be murder of people who exist? Like if I played a game where I went around killing people in the town of Wichita? ex: if I were killing people in The Sims, they're digital representations of real people.

Whereas the people in Kotor, or Oblivion are not representations of real beings. You can't murder something that never lived.

My question to all christians who view this thread, why do we play video games that are like that, if we know it to be sin? What tk said...and even without that comparison, that is your interpretation of Christianity, not that of all Christians (certainly not mine!).

Those are just games. I don't consider myself a god in real life when I play a video game (...although when I think about it, I could save a lot of taxes lol ). As for me I don't think "God" would care about such petty things as video games (and Church attendance per example): what matters is what you do in real life to make life better and help each other IMHO.

My question to all christians who view this thread, why do we play video games that are like that, if we know it to be sin?
Whether I think murder in real life is a sin or not (which I do), I don't think it is in a video game. Why? Well, because it's a video game - it's not real. I highly doubt God really cares about how many aliens we slice or how many credits we steal when we're playing KotOR.

I'll be polite, it's Napoleon.

Sorry, I mispelled his name.

Whether I think murder in real life is a sin or not (which I do), I don't think it is in a video game. Why? Well, because it's a video game - it's not real. I highly doubt God really cares about how many aliens we slice or how many credits we steal when we're playing KotOR.
Video games are considered virtual, yes, and I also wish what you said is 100% true, but we don't know for sure if it is or not. My hypothesis on this topic may be way off, or right on the target, but again, I don't know for sure. Me I personally I sure hope it is not, but as I said before, I don't know. I guess you could say I am somewhat taking precautions. :)

Curious, but if playing a game is bad in your opinion, how do you feel about litereature? Do you enjoy reading stories where people are being killed? Do you refuse to buy a book where people are murdered (or subjected to other indignities) b/c you might be enabling someone else's "near occasion of sin/sinfullness" (by buying their books and essentially encouraging them to create more of same)?

I come down on the side of those that say it's no big deal. The only caveat would be people who have self destructive personality traits. If you have "issues" with self control and violent behavior, perhaps those kind of games are the thing you should avoid (much like an alcoholic shouldn't drink booze). Otherwise, don't see problems with playing games, etc..

Curious, but if playing a game is bad in your opinion, how do you feel about litereature? Do you enjoy reading stories where people are being killed? Do you refuse to buy a book where people are murdered (or subjected to other indignities) b/c you might be enabling someone else's "near occasion of sin/sinfullness" (by buying their books and essentially encouraging them to create more of same)?

I come down on the side of those that say it's no big deal. The only caveat would be people who have self destructive personality traits. If you have "issues" with self control and violent behavior, perhaps those kind of games are the thing you should avoid (much like an alcoholic shouldn't drink booze). Otherwise, don't see problems with playing games, etc..

Well I have read one of Tom Clancey's books, and it was pretty good; other than that i have read some of Frank Peretti's books (the Oath was great). Other, other than that I generally read a lot at school, and I am tired at the end of the day and don't read many books. I cannot stop someone from sinning Totenkopf, everybody sins, and we can only somewhat cut down on it.I, in most cases, only am able to counsel the person. What it all comes down to is the person making the choice. Also I don't read books chuck full of gore, violence, sex ; ect. BTW-- I am not quite sure what to think quite yet on the killing in video games. I only think that playing a video games when you play as a god is not right, and one reason that I think this because I don't play any sort of game along those lines. Secondly, I feel that it is not right to do so. By no means am I saying that you, or anybody else, should believe in what I believe. :)

The thing that I can't see is why am I being "targeted" for something I believe in. I cannot stress this enough, EVERYBODY HAS OPINIONS. Sometimes these opinions cannot be validated, it may be something that you have faith in, or something that is not explainable, and it would be nearly impossible to validate something like that. I just don't understand why I am being "targeted" (this is in most cases on this thread, not all) for where I put my faith. I know that I may not be the greatest at explaining my reasoning, but I still try to. I am new to this kind of thing. Please forgive me if you feel that I am being kinda short, but I am really curious why I seem to be getting this kind of negative response from those on this thread and several others.
I would love to get an answer to that question if at all possible. Thanks :)
( this was not directed at Totenkopf 's question.)

I don't think anybody has "targeted" you, especially not me. I'm a Christian as well and have been for years, it's just that I don't think the kind of video games you play is going to have much of an influence in where you spend the afterlife.

Now like Totenkopf said, there are some games that certain people shouldn't play because of any mental/personality "disorders" that person may have. Sometimes, it just depends on the kind of personality someone has - people with an overly-violent nature shouldn't play really violent games, or people with "weak" stomachs shouldn't play really gory games. In and of themselves, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong in doing those things, though.

The thing that I can't see is why am I being "targeted" for something I believe in.

because you are the only one who has professed to believe that video-game killing is the same as real-life killing. We are all quite curious to know why you think this. yes, you are more than welcome to say: "it's my opinion and that's the end of it." But you seem interested in discussion so we're all curious.

Is it the fact that they're people? Does that make killing Kahjit in Oblivion OK because they're not human? Is it because they're imitations of sentient creatures? Does that then make it OK to kill all the monsters and stuff? Or is it a be-all end-all, all killing, real or digital, is bad. And if so, what is you're reasoning for believing this?

I wonder where do you all know from what god likes and dislikes, and that he condemns killings in real life but does not care about killings or violence in a "real life simulation"?