You are getting "paid" by going to school though. You go there to learn, you learn, and then if you graduate you get a diploma and have the opportunity to move onto a good college. Your payment is your bigger paycheck later in life instead of being stuck in dead-end jobs with not a lot of options for career.

This is a very thoughtful analysis. Sometimes, though, people who DO go to college will STILL end up with dead-end jobs. A lot of people choose to drop out of school because they can start making money on the spot in a full-time job. It may be a dead-end job, but it may not be. Perhaps the guy dropping out to be a full-time mechanic could move on to own the shop one day.

This is not just a public school problem according to the above article. It seems that private schools are having the exact same problem. So since GarfieldJL backed a little off his stance of saying that this was deliberate, I will also back off mine in light of further investigation.


Well when these reports started surfacing people started accusing them of being sexist and it was just the fact girls were finally showing their potential. So yes there is a discrimination that is there.


I was one of these lazy boys from elementary though high school. I did as little as possible and sometimes less than that. I was diagnosed with a learning disability and they wanted to fill with me with their magic drugs. My mother tried, but she did not have the education to help me after the 8th grade. She yelled, she spanked and later my step father beat, but I was too hard headed to listen. I managed to barely graduate on time (I was a fixture in summer school). I attended college, but dropped out when I was told my grades from high school and my financial situation would never allow me to get admission into the University of Texas. Upon my father’s deathbed he made me promises to go back and get my degree. Four years later I graduate cum laude and then continued my education.


I know about what you're talking about, however part of it could have been frustration, you felt like you were going to fail anyways so why try. Granted for some it is due to laziness, but that isn't always the case. A lot of the time it is due to the fact that the kids have simply given up, which traces all the way back to 1st grade.

However, I'm glad you finally graduated.


That is why I feel these boys are being lazy, because I was lazy and I used my disability as an excuse to justify my failures.


That's a dangerous trap to fall into, however you probably felt that you couldn't succeed due to your disabilities. The fact you were given a label of a disability further eroded any hope you had, because you knew you had a disability and to you that was why you could not succeed. What kept me going after I knew I had my disabilities was to prove the [insert derogatory word here] wrong. Then there is the double standard which simon92 sums up part of the situation nicely.

It's OK in the end, because sexist discrimination by Females to Males [and racial discrimination by Black people to white people] is officially called...get this...POSITIVE DISCRIMINATION! What could be more positive than discrimination?!?!


That is actually what seems to be the attitude anymore, granted this is illegal, but it is happening. We've gone from girls and blacks from being discriminated against, to discriminating against boys and whites. That's one reason why I'm against political correctness, no I don't think it's okay to call people names, but I don't find it appropriate that it's okay to bash white boys because 20+ years ago there was discrimination against a minority.


However after reading more on the internet I feel that the classes may need to cater more to males. I’m still not willing to go with gender separate schools, but some classrooms being gender specific may help. I also agree with the above article that more male teachers could help. Whatever both private and public schools do they must not revert back to the pre 1972 day of decimating against females. We owe it to both sexist to give them the opportunity for best education possible. It is up to the student to be willing to except it.

It's sexes not sexist.

Anyways, I don't think we should go back to discriminating against girls, that's not what I'm advocating. I'm advocating that we actually get good teachers and classes be set up so that boys aren't demoralized when they start school due to failure after failure due to the teaching style and giving them assignments they are physically not ready for, because that just sets them up for failure later, cause they feel they're stupid and can't do anything right. So they just give up on school, which is why they seem to be lazy when they aren't. They are demoralized to the point they feel if they try they're just going to fail so why bother.

School needs to be challenging, but it should also be set up so they actually can succeed at the same time. Boys in particular need recess, they need gym, music, they need diversions to blow off steam. That's why I consider the education system to be sexist against boys, because if it were just laziness there would be an even number of girls failing compared to boys. Another copout by schools is to claim a boy is LD and throw him in special ed and put him on drugs because the teacher doesn't want to deal with it. I fully expect boys to be in the place of where girls were pre 1972 if something isn't done.

This is a very thoughtful analysis. Sometimes, though, people who DO go to college will STILL end up with dead-end jobs. A lot of people choose to drop out of school because they can start making money on the spot in a full-time job. It may be a dead-end job, but it may not be. Perhaps the guy dropping out to be a full-time mechanic could move on to own the shop one day.
Very true. My uncle was a small time mechanic when he first started off. Did bad in school, didn't go to college etc. Now he owns his body shop along with partially owning a cafй.

Also I'd have to partially disagree with you on essays in high school being useful in college. It really depends what major you're in and what courses you're taking. Writing an essay on War and Peace is not a valuable learning experience for writing scientific essays. The writing style is totally different, I honestly used more of the lab report styles from my science classes than I used learning in English class.
Good point.

Seriously, I've been in this situation in second grade, with a lousy teacher. She said I was a below average student, even insulted my intelligence, some of them said I could never make it to college. I was taken to an expert whom diagnosed my learning disabilities and the school was forced to provide accommodations for me. Guess what, I made it to college I was an engineering major for 3 years before I switched, after burning myself out, taking classes with absolutely no break in between. I'm now in Computer Graphics Tech, and doing well. Now you want to tell me that my problems, and problems that other boys have is due to laziness? Cause that's what it sounds like.
Yes, I still believe it is due to laziness.

While I usually applaud first-hand experiences, your experience is only relevant to yourself and a select few others. Not everybody has learning disabilities. I was talking to my 10th grade teacher after class one day about failing students and she commented that a lot of the boys failing were not doing poorly in class. To the contrary, any assignment a lot of them turned in they got an A or a B in. They just refused to do the work, so they failed the class.

I was one of these lazy boys from elementary though high school. I did as little as possible and sometimes less than that. I was diagnosed with a learning disability and they wanted to fill with me with their magic drugs. My mother tried, but she did not have the education to help me after the 8th grade. She yelled, she spanked and later my step father beat, but I was too hard headed to listen. I managed to barely graduate on time (I was a fixture in summer school). I attended college, but dropped out when I was told my grades from high school and my financial situation would never allow me to get admission into the University of Texas. Upon my father’s deathbed he made me promises to go back and get my degree. Four years later I graduate cum laude and then continued my education.

That is why I feel these boys are being lazy, because I was lazy and I used my disability as an excuse to justify my failures.
I believe this has been one of the best things said in the thread on this. Yes, a lot of boys are told they have learning disabilities, when a lot of the time it is not true. They then use that as an excuse to not help themselves. Maybe if we stopped telling boys they had mental disabilities they would work a little harder.

Here, let me give a little first hand experience myself:

When I was in Elementary school, I was practically uncontrollable. My emotions were terribly unstable, I would get into fights every week, and I would cry in the middle of class, I would run out of class and hide somewhere in the school, I would throw things, etc. When I reached Middle School the teachers were not ready or prepared for someone like me, so they decided to see if they could put me somewhere else.

I was put into testing to see if I had any learning disabilities. After a month of tests, they concluded that I was emotionally unstable, but they could not even chart my intelligence level. I was going to be put into a school for unstable kids (Basically a mix between Juvenile Hall and an insane asylum), but my parents found a loop-hole in the system. There was a special ed class they failed to mention at the school for kids with learning disabilities, so I was put into there.

In that class I met a bunch of odd boys, many of which I stayed with the whole 3 years. Now, I am talking learning disabilities here. Kids who were emotionally unstable, kids who could not sit still for 10 seconds without pills, kids who had been abused, kids who were suicidal, etc. We still went to normal classes, but sometimes our teacher would teach us the subjects herself with the other aids in her class. We learned at our own pace, and if we did all our work during the week we got free-time on Friday to let off some steam and play games with everybody.

I will repeat this: Kids with actual disabilities, both mental and physical.

When we were put into normal classes we did the same work they did. Some of us did better than the other kids, some did worse. But, some of us used our disabilities to our advantage at times... but, we never got far because our teacher always knew when we were doing it. A lot of us were really very intelligent, some -far- smarter than those in normal classes.

We had a kid that would sit in class all day and rock back and forth, mumbling to himself and giggling about words. We would talk to him, and he would sometimes answer, sometimes mumble our words back. But, if you put a puzzle in front of him, from word to physical, he could figure it out in seconds. If you put a worksheet in front of him, he would pass every single one. If you asked him any random question you could think of, he most likely knew it. He passed all his classes with A's even though he had mental problems stacked on top of mental problems.

Yes, a lot of our problems were catered too. A lot of our work was catered to. We were helped a lot in ways I wish all classes could be helped, but we actually had the right to say we had actual problems.

ADHD, ADD... many kids -claim- to have these because they are -lazy-. I have seen real ADD and real ADHD. If you can stare at a video game for 8 hours, you do not have either. Claiming that all boys have a hard time concentrating is bull to the extreme, because you are putting a mental disorder on them that does not apply to them. They use that disorder as a pillow to fall on when things get "hard" for them. If we could go into a normal class and pass, then the other boys in the class who talked all day, who messed around, who said everyday "Meh, I didn't do the homework", who mouthed off to the teacher deserved every single F, D, and C they ever got.

I will repeat: If you can sit down, not move, and play video games for 8 hours then you have the capability of sitting down and doing an assignment. The only difference is that you want to do one, and hate the other. Kids who truly cannot concentrate will sit down for 5 minutes, try to do the work or play, and then need to do a few laps around the class/building to burn off steam. They need pills to make sure that any food they digest does not make them hyper as hell. They are restless. As far as I have seen, people in normal classes sit down, still, and watch the teacher, yet still refuse to turn in work. The most moving they do is talking to their partner, ignoring what the teacher says.

So, your problem was your disability. And... you relate to other boys... how? The fact you overcame it and did your work, graduated, and are now doing fine in life is proof that a disability does not disable you in school, but hinders you. If you could do that, than normal boys should be able to breeze right through school. Some boys actually sit down, do the work, and pass. But the majority of those who fail are the ones not doing work, not listening, and coming to school for the soul fact they like to talk to people.

The special ed copout does not work on me, and if anything it simply proves that normal people have the same potential, if not more, to pass a class.

Well when these reports started surfacing people started accusing them of being sexist and it was just the fact girls were finally showing their potential. So yes there is a discrimination that is there.
If only some of the boys would actually try and show that same potential instead of falling behind false mental disorders.

Anyways, I don't think we should go back to discriminating against girls, that's not what I'm advocating. I'm advocating that we actually get good teachers and classes be set up so that boys aren't demoralized when they start school due to failure after failure due to the teaching style and giving them assignments they are physically not ready for, because that just sets them up for failure later, cause they feel they're stupid and can't do anything right. So they just give up on school, which is why they seem to be lazy when they aren't. They are demoralized to the point they feel if they try they're just going to fail so why bother.
If we were all physicially ready to do the work in middle school and pass the classes, then the boys in Middle School/High School have absolutely no right to say they are being discriminated against. They simply refuse to do the work, and then they lay on the pillow you are giving them to justify their failures.

School needs to be challenging, but it should also be set up so they actually can succeed at the same time. Boys in particular need recess, they need gym, music, they need diversions to blow off steam. That's why I consider the education system to be sexist against boys, because if it were just laziness there would be an even number of girls failing compared to boys. Another copout by schools is to claim a boy is LD and throw him in special ed and put him on drugs because the teacher doesn't want to deal with it. I fully expect boys to be in the place of where girls were pre 1972 if something isn't done.
My school had PE for an hour and a half every day in a 4 block schedule school. Boys would go to PE, come to class 5 minutes later, and guess what they would do? Talk, tell the teacher the didn't do the homework, and then ignore him for the rest of class and do the classwork below standards. If they cannot work right after PE, then they are lazy. Not pumped full of every. Boys do not need 80% of their school day meant to stimulate them. This is learning, this is a job. This is not their personal play time to have fun and let off energy so that they can sit down and play video games all day after school right after refusing to do anything in class.

School needs to be challenging
If school are so damn easy, then why do kids keep failing! If it is that easy to do the work, then even the boys should have no problem in doing it. Simply saying the system sucks and is not teaching you anything does not pass you the class.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/books/reviews/waragainstboys0703.htm)

http://www.dest.gov.au/sectors/school_education/policy_initiatives_reviews/key_issues/boys_education/boys_education_research_and_websites.htm)

Explain to me what the Australian Government's Department of Education feel there is a problem then? Boys are starting to be over diagnosed for learning disabilities even if they don't have them. While I don't agree with everything in the washington post article I do agree with a lot of it.

Also it isn't laziness, cause I've seen the effects on my younger cousin, he's had problems and has been on the verge of giving up. Calling himself stupid and trying to act stupid because he thinks he can't succeed. He goes to a private school btw, I don't think he has that problem now, but he did a few years ago. I also know my cousin isn't lazy, so if I find it highly insulting that you're implying that all of this is due to laziness, and that boys are lazier than girls.

Also True_Avery are you implying boys are not as smart as girls? Seriously, trying to teach a kid to write well in cursive when their fine motor skills aren't developed enough yet isn't a challenge it is unrealistic and setting them up to fail. Fine Motor skills develop when they develop. Some boys develop fine motor skills faster than the norm but generally there is a difference of 18 months and no amount of practice is going to make a damn bit of difference. I've made it my business to know about my disabilities and I know quite a bit from first hand experiences and the stupidity of some educators that tried to keep having me practice handwriting when it was something I physically wasn't able to do! It was frustrating as all getout and I made little to no progress. My mother finally said she would take bring this before the State Board of Education, if they didn't provide me the accomidations that I was supposed to be able to have by law.

I think I damn well know how fine motor skills develop thank you, I can type 30-60 words a minute thank you, and still have problems signing my own name in cursive. I think I would know from first hand experience how effective trying to teach someone something they physically cannot do yet!

Considering I've experienced this first hand, I've had to fight my way through the education system since 2nd grade with people saying I couldn't do achieve anything. I think I know quite abit about the subject, and to imply that I don't is quite frankly insulting.

Here is some more articles:
http://www.friesian.com/sommers.htm)
http://www.feminist.org/education/)
http://www.nationalreview.com/kob/obeirne200512060815.asp)


Also here is a report concerning feminists trying to block things to try to help boys.
http://www.ifsi.org/resources/pdfs/publicationsArticles/04-26-06-USAtoday.pdf)

Also here is a lawsuit:
http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=700)

Something from New Zealand:
http://nzmera.orcon.net.nz/8edulies.html)

Proof that feminists are denying the problem:
http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=9729)

City Journal Article:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_3_schools_boys.html)


And I'm still finding more stuff, do you still say I don't know what I'm talking about?

however part of it could have been frustration, you felt like you were going to fail anyways so why try. Granted for some it is due to laziness, but that isn't always the case. However, I'm glad you finally graduated.

No, in my case it was 100% laziness. There was always something else I rather be doing than my school work.

It's sexes not sexist.

And you are really close to figuring out my learning disability.

I'm advocating that we actually get good teachers and classes be set up so that boys aren't demoralized when they start school due to failure after failure due to the teaching style and giving them assignments they are physically not ready for, because that just sets them up for failure later, cause they feel they're stupid and can't do anything right. So they just give up on school, which is why they seem to be lazy when they aren't. They are demoralized to the point they feel if they try they're just going to fail so why bother.

First off there are a lot of good teachers out there. I have family members and very good friends that are teachers. These people work hard with very little thanks or money. They have to suffer with parents, media and students’ unfounded remarks and accusations. I can’t count how many times I’ve had my teacher friends take their frustrations out on me after a parent teacher conference. Like Jae wrote:

They also don't accept the fact that little Johnny and Suzy aren't perfect, and aren't always going to do the work well. They expect their kids to get perfect grades without any work, and they are doing their kids no favors by not being active participants in their children's education.

While I now agree that something needs to be done about our education system to help both genders exceed. I will not make a blanket statement blaming all teachers for the systems failings, no more than I will say it is the American Soldiers fault for our problems in Iraq. There are bad teachers, but most are very good at their job and have just become disillusioned with the reasons they became teachers in the first place. The ones I know care more about the students than the do themselves. They want their students to succeed and become productive members of society. They are not in any way hindering the student’s development because of the sex of the student.

My plan starts with these:

1st I’d ask the teachers what needs to be done. They are on the front lines and know more than any elected official or us what is needed to solve this problem.

2nd I’d recruit more male teachers and set up more same sex classes.

3rd I’d set up more interactive assignments. I would not waste precious time having more recess, but set up activities that can teach while keeping the male mind involved. They seem to like computers and games how about combining that with education?

4th I would revert a little to the pre 1972 days. Reinstate competition into young people’s activities. There are winners and losers in life. Education should be teaching our children to solve problems and cope with what life throws at us. Teach them the importance of hard work in competing in life and how losing is not the end of the world.

5th Explain to the students why are they are taking a particular subject. I hated math past a certain point. The schools only wanted me to know how to do it. They did not care to explain the reasons behind it even when I asked. I did not learn the importance of trigonometry, geometry or algebra until I was in the real world. Children are way more intelligent then many grown up give them credit for and can understand if we take the time to explain and answer their questions.

My Ѕ cents worth.

mimartin the problem is that as things are boys will continue to be shortchanged and girls will get more opportunites because according to the femanist movement masculinity is bad.

See all the articles I've dragged up, there is a huge problem in the education system but it is tailored to fit girls at the expense of boys as well.


Christina Hoff Sommers was absolutely accurate in describing, in her 2000 bestseller, The War Against Boys, how feminist complaints that girls were “losing their voice” in a male-oriented classroom have prompted the educational establishment to turn the schools upside down to make them more girl-friendly, to the detriment of males.


http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_3_schools_boys.html)


mimartin if you say in your case it was laziness fine, I'm not going to argue about your problems in school. Though I personally feel there was more to it than that, based on firsthand experience.


As Sommers understood, it is boys’ aggressive and rationalist nature—redefined by educators as a behavioral disorder—that’s getting so many of them in trouble in the feminized schools. Their problem: they don’t want to be girls.



Does that give people an idea of the situation. I'm going to keep pulling out articles for you guys to read.

Oh another article:
http://www.i2i.org/main/article.php?article_id=129)

mimartin the problem is that as things are boys will continue to be shortchanged and girls will get more opportunites because according to the femanist movement masculinity is bad.

And between your articles and my own research I’ve agreed there is a problem as far as I am concerned. Personally I am appalled by the graduation and drop out rates for both male and female students.

You will never get me to assign guilt. I don’t believe there is one cause to this problem the system, parents, students, administrators, school boards, principles, legislators and teachers have all failed as far as I can tell. There is no one problem so there can be no one solution.

mimartin if you say in your case it was laziness fine, I'm not going to argue about your problems in school. Though I personally feel there was more to it than that, based on firsthand experience.

You’d be correct to a certain extent, but it is not what you think it had nothing to do with a disability. It has more to do with me being bull headed in my youth. Trust me in my case it was laziness, but I’ve unfortunately gotten over it.

@True_Avery: Very well said.

If school are so damn easy, then why do kids keep failing.
I don’t know about elementary school through high school any more, but I do know college is way to easy now days. When I first attended 70 was passing, but with a D that would not transfer or count toward you major. When I went back 60 was passing and anything over a 65 would transfer and count towards your major. I haven’t received a grade lower than a B while collecting my two degrees and that includes a Masters level sociology class that I never took the text book out of it wrapper (in fairness I did attend every class and took good notes). At the time I felt we were given grades for our tuition, but since the drop out and failure rate was pretty high I doubt that was the case. I also did really well on the GMAT and passed my securities exams without studying so college taught me something. I just know I’m not intelligent enough to get the grades I received.

This tread has actually gotten me to thinking of returning to that liberal bastion of knowledge known as college. I’m actually giddy with the possibility of either getting my teaching certificate or my doctorate. I wonder if the local community college or high school could use an accounting, economics or finance teacher. Of course I’m not going to give up my day job; I don’t think I could survive on a teacher’s salary.

@GarfieldJL the “liberal bastion of knowledge” is a joke please don’t take everything I write seriously.

http://www.focusonthefamily.com/docstudy/newsletters/A000000370.cfm)

Here is another link, mimartin I'm going to have to say in this teachers and schools have are mostly to blame. Generally parents do not know laws as well as lawyers and those whom routinely help parents with their child's IEP. That's the reason my mom was able to get me the help I needed, she knew the laws.

Ages 5-8 are critical in development, if you're self esteem has been steamrolled by failure after failure when you're at that age, odds are you'll fail from then on. It has nothing to do with laziness, and everything to do with being demoralized.

http://www.focusonthefamily.com/docstudy/newsletters/A000000370.cfm)


I know all about James Dobson, Ph.D. and an article by Bill O'Riley would have a better chance of convincing me differently than my current option. At least Bill has a sense of humor that I find amusing. Sorry but I don’t mind an opposing view, but I hate intolerance in any form. It is predictable that Dr. Dobson would blame the so called “liberal teachers.” That said I applauded Dr. Dobson and his family for their views and practice of those views on adoption.

The teachers do not set the curriculum, the teachers do not set the schedule and the teachers do not buy the books. These are all done or approved by the school board and the administrator Even if one teacher is bad it is the responsibility of the administrator or principle to hire and/or fire the teacher. I don’t want to hear about tenure, because a bad teacher should be weeded out long before tenure becomes an obstacle.

Face it teacher are not there for the money they care about the students welfare more than most of us. Policeman and fireman also have a selfless job, but there is also a thrill at times to those occupations. Teacher only thrill comes from the knowledge that they helped a young mind succeed. As I said before you are not going to convince me other wise. Teachers and Soldiers are two occupations that I truly respect.

Ages 5-8 are critical in development, if you're self esteem has been steamrolled by failure after failure when you're at that age, odds are you'll fail from then on. It has nothing to do with laziness, and everything to do with being demoralized.

Sorry, I’m old school. I was taught what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. If this was true in my case I’d be living on the streets now. Children need to be taught when they fail to brush themselves off and try again. According to some of the articles you’ve posted one of the problems is the lack of completion in the class room. It stated that the feminism of the classroom got rid of the competition. The article stated that males need competition, but in competition there are winners and losers. To me this is another crutch and excuse for future failures. The children should be made to understand failure is a part of life and from failure comes success. If they are being demoralized from losing then someone needs to work with that child or may be they are being abused in other ways. If the teacher is verbally abusing them to the point they are demoralized then he/she should be fired and charged with a crime.

Feel good you convinced me that there is more there than laziness. We will just disagree on the cause, although I’ve admitted that I believe some teachers are a small part of the overall problem. I’d still put parents far ahead of teachers, but I really believe it is more of a system failure. Fair enough?

mimartin, as another person with a "disability" (I put the word in inverted commas quite intentionally - there is nothing wrong with us. We are different, and the system and society can't handle that we think differently, that we can see where they can't, even if that means we can't see where they can, but this is a different discussion for a different thread...), I know how tempting it is to think that you are hiding behind the disability.

And sometimes it's true, but a lot of the time, the reason I avoided work at school was because I couldn't actually work out the process, I didn't know how to do it. I can't speak for you, but I'd be surprised if you didn't at least on occasion experience this?

I was also too proud in some respects to go for help, which frankly wasn't helpful. Spider diagrams were largely useless, and it was easiest just to start writing.

@Avery: My writing is still illegible, and at school, for me to write an essay legibly would take a very long time, and it was painful. What this meant was that teachers got a messy, often smudged piece of incoherent work that didn't fully explore the ideas touched upon. It's disheartening, and makes you lose faith in your own academic ability. And losing faith in yourself at school is one sure-fire way to fail.

mimartin, as another person with a "disability" (I put the word in inverted commas quite intentionally - there is nothing wrong with us. We are different, and the system and society can't handle that we think differently, that we can see where they can't, even if that means we can't see where they can, but this is a different discussion for a different thread...), I know how tempting it is to think that you are hiding behind the disability.


I'd agree with it being for a seperate discussion for a seperate thread, except that many boys without disabilities have been labeled as having behavioral problems or being LD, because of the fact the teaching style is so grossly mismatched with a normal boy's learning style that they can't compete. The doctor whom first diagnosed me is a specialist in Attention Deficit Disorder, and Learning Disabilities, that's all he does now, he gave up his well baby practice to focus on this area. He goes to conferences rountinely on the subject, and he's commented before that ADHD is routinely over-diagnosed. So schools can dope up young boys on medications like ritalin (which is a high powered stimulent, can be extremely addictive, and is can even kill you if you are given too much in a doseage) and throw them in special education so they don't have to deal with them. So this isn't an issue for a different thread, I wish it were, but unfortunately it isn't.


@Avery: My writing is still illegible, and at school, for me to write an essay legibly would take a very long time, and it was painful. What this meant was that teachers got a messy, often smudged piece of incoherent work that didn't fully explore the ideas touched upon. It's disheartening, and makes you lose faith in your own academic ability. And losing faith in yourself at school is one sure-fire way to fail.

Ditto for me too, and my mother finally had to threaten to take the school to the state board of education for them to provide me the accomidations required by Federal Law.

So it isn't about laziness, it is about being demoralized and elementry is a critical time period for kids.

And sometimes it's true, but a lot of the time, the reason I avoided work at school was because I couldn't actually work out the process, I didn't know how to do it. I can't speak for you, but I'd be surprised if you didn't at least on occasion experience this?

I have no way of knowing how hard it is for someone else to solve a problem or do their work. I just know the other students made it look so simple compared to me. I’ve never had a problem solving the problem or reading the assignment. My problem caused me to be an extremely slow reader. I have no clue to what others see when they read but the page seemed to become jumbled the longer I stared at it. If I concentrate I can get through reading and even understand what I’ve read. I also have problems writing as I can barely spell my own name (that is not an over exaggeration in elementary school I reversed the a and e consistently). Again if I really concentrated on what I was doing I could become a slightly below average speller.

So as proven in my college years when I made the grade most of my problems were caused by me not wanting to give the work the level of effort that was require. So I was lazy.

So it isn't about laziness, it is about being demoralized and elementary is a critical time period for kids.

I agree that this is not ALL about laziness, but laziness is a factor in the number of students we are talking about. Some have real disabilities and it has nothing to do with laziness, but others like me can overcome their problem with a little extra effort.

I’m not saying everyone is lazy, I am saying that is highly doubtful that I am the only one that used my disability to get out of work.

I also agree that elementary school is an important time in children’s lives, but so is the time before they reach school age and the time after elementary school.

Okay mimartin, Darth InSidious is talking about something more than laziness.

@Avery: My writing is still illegible, and at school, for me to write an essay legibly would take a very long time, and it was painful. What this meant was that teachers got a messy, often smudged piece of incoherent work that didn't fully explore the ideas touched upon. It's disheartening, and makes you lose faith in your own academic ability. And losing faith in yourself at school is one sure-fire way to fail.


What Darth InSidious is talking about is that trying to write neatly for prolonged periods caused him physical pain. I know it may sound silly, but it can and does happen, particularly to people with dysgraphia. The nerves in their hands have a hard time feeling the writing utensil in a manner that they feel they have a good grip on it. Thus in order to feel like they have a grip on the utensil they end up gripping it harder than someone without dysgraphia would this tires out their hand quickly and causes physical pain when they try to write for prolonged periods. I'm going to hazard a guess and say it sounds like InSidious also has fine motor problems as well.

Unlike playing a sport, practice doesn't make it better to any appreciable degree. Schools however instead of providing accomidations will keep trying to get the individual to do things how everyone else does, which to someone with this physical disability its like beating your head against a brick wall. Not very many parents have heard of dysgraphia, the only reason my mom heard about it is because she worked with children with special needs and taught people how to be a speech pathologist, she also once worked at Texas Children's Hospital. So she knew about all of this, most parents wouldn't know about it and schools have no particular interest in enlightening the parents of the student preferring instead to try to get the student to conform to how everyone else is doing things or throwing them in special education. So the blame must be thrown entirely on the schools on this issue.

Schools have no incentive to inform parents about things that would cost the school money to provide the accomidation they'll even withhold the information from the parent, prefering to label the student a behavior problem instead.

Back to topic, the way "standardized" education is currently laid out, it is discriminatory towards boys. While I'm sure girls don't enjoy doing worksheets all day either, but they are much better at coping with that style of teaching. I'm going to suggest the following.

1. Recess be brought back to school, no fewer than 3 recesses a day for elementry. 1 recess for Middle School.

2. There needs to be more experiments, like building something that an egg can survive in being dropped from 2 stories up.

3. Teachers need to make a conscious effort of including boys in in-class discussions and talk louder so it isn't like elevator music to boys. (I'm not saying ignore girls, I'm saying that boys need to be included as well).

4. For book reports if you want to have a book like Memoirs of Geisha, make sure you have an alternative book for boys that they'd find interesting. Or use a book that both genders would enjoy.

Anyone else have anything to add?