Well I am a person who believes that each country should rule bye him self, I live in Puerto Rico is a island in the Caribbean and it is part of the U.S.A but it is not a state and is not part of any state at all we are just “Part of them” a Unincorporated territory, I don’t like it, I would love to see Puerto Rico in depended and free. Wooden you like to see you’re country free? See it been rule by your own people and have a national representation in the world?!!.... I do, I know that there are other Countries like mine that are in this state, like Guam, In Spain there is the Basque people they want freedom for them because they simply don’t have the same culture as the Spanish, nether my country have the same culture than the Americans, I have hearth in Scotland there’s a movement for independence (SNP) and I have heart that for ages the Scottish people have fought for independence, William Wallace a great patriot for the Scottish and many more patriots that have fought, many have died trying to see there country free..
If you like I feel this need to scream to let out what you feel….. Let it out here! Please let’s talk of this serious matter.
Why would you ever want that? Puerto Rico gets all the benefits of being a U.S. state with nowhere nearly as many taxes.
U.S.A would not accept us as state, if they do they will have to give more money to our system and we would provably be the poorest state and U.S.A wouldn’t like that ... plus give us state so do to Guam and Virgin Island.... And sorry emperor devon but I and many of us prefer be to be independent ... We are not Americans we are LatinoAmericanos.... Latin-Americans we have our own culture.... no need to submit to another. And the U.S.A dose not give’s us free money it’s from our own production and from our taxes that we maintain our self... Plus U.S.A should thanks us and Latin’s because we are you’re army.
Why would you ever want that? Puerto Rico gets all the benefits of being a U.S. state with nowhere nearly as many taxes.
Not quite, they don't get to vote in the House of Reps, or Senate. However, Devon has a point, you basically are already a country on its own for the most part. Then there is the fact you're already technically a US citizen as things stand currently.
Puerto Rico does have taxes, but last I checked none of them were by the Federal Government in the United States.
Why should Pureto Rico gets freedom when Vermont gets to continue to stay within the Union (
http://www.vermontrepublic.org/), despite having 30% of people wanting to leave the Union?
And, what about me? I can't leave the United States of America. That would be illegal. If I go and claim my own house as an indepedent state and form my own military, I would be arrested and sent to jail. Why should you guys be free when I can't declare my own nation as well?
Hey, I love the ability to have basically every single person on the planet be free, able to choose themselves. But, er, we can't have it, for obivous reasons (anarchy FTL). And not only that, but you can't even get it democratically, those other voters want to vote either to be a State or Keep Status Quo, thereby stopping the Indepedence movement. I know you want to stay within the Union, but can't we spilt Pureto Rico in half: Loyalists get the North, Revolutionaries get the South? Man, times like these make me wish the Confedearcy won the Civil War.
I was under the impression that PR has had the issue put on the ballot several times, but has always chosen to stay an unicorporated territory, although I could be mistaken.
*waits for someone to mention the CSA*
Why should Pureto Rico gets freedom when Vermont gets to continue to stay within the Union (
http://www.vermontrepublic.org/), despite having 30% of people wanting to leave the Union?
And, what about me? I can't leave the United States of America. That would be illegal. If I go and claim my own house as an indepedent state and form my own military, I would be arrested and sent to jail. Why should you guys be free when I can't declare my own nation as well?
Hey, I love the ability to have basically every single person on the planet be free, able to choose themselves. But, er, we can't have it, for obivous reasons (anarchy FTL). And not only that, but you can't even get it democratically, those other voters want to vote either to be a State or Keep Status Quo, thereby stopping the Indepedence movement. I know you want to stay within the Union, but can't we spilt Pureto Rico in half: Loyalists get the North, Revolutionaries get the South? Man, times like these make me wish the Confedearcy won the Civil War.
We are a country not a house... And why you are complaining why would we should be independence?.... because we are not Americans and don’t have the same culture , dose who are loyal to U.S.A well they have 50 states to choose and go live there. About the Vermon project, they have there reasons, great citizens but I can’t talk by them because I don’t know they’re type of situation.
And John in 1950 a man Name Luis Munoz Marin make a project to give PR free association with the base of later having Independence too bad he is not alive to see the big mistake he did by attaching us more because the U.S.A control our economy and that means that we are attached.
We are a country not a house... And why you are complaining why would we should be independence?.... because we are not Americans and don’t have the same culture , dose who are loyal to U.S.A well they have 50 states to choose and go live there. About the Vermon project, they have there reasons, great citizens but I can’t talk by them because I don’t know they’re type of situation.
You don't understand. I'm not complaining about you wanting to be indepedent. I'm complaining on why I can't be indepedent, and why in the world can't I free myself from Yankee imperialism while you get to smile and be free.
Not that I want to declare indepedence, but I like to have that right, in principle.
You don't understand. I'm not complaining about you wanting to be indepedent. I'm complaining on why I can't be indepedent, and why in the world can't I free myself from Yankee imperialism while you get to smile and be free.
Not that I want to declare indepedence, but I like to have that right, in principle.
Then fight for you’re rights and If you are from Vermont then keep fighting for you’re believes, You just don’t get nothing standing and doing anything , that’s why I decided to do this post because I want people to know that there countries out there that want independence , an Silentscope I am not smiling because I am not free like you.
We are the Borg. Lower your guns and surrender your flags. We will add your monies and your fineries to the Reserve. Your culture will adapt to service us. Protests are useless.
Really, though, what do you have to complain about? Lower taxes, the protection of the United States Military, near-independence...really, if you want to be independent, move to Antarctica.
No offense, but I think Puerto Rico is kinda better off as a US territory. From what I've heard the electorate there has repeatedly voted to remain an unicorporated territory (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_rico#Political_history) ) several times.
Besides, look what happened to the rest of Latin America...
We are the Borg. Lower your guns and surrender your flags. We will add your monies and your fineries to the Reserve. Your culture will adapt to service us. Protests are useless.
Really, though, what do you have to complain about? Lower taxes, the protection of the United States Military, near-independence...really, if you want to be independent, move to Antarctica.
Antarctica is not my home country plus if you are more intelligent you will notice that we live in the Caribbean it’s hot here, we will provably die there unless that’s what you want?
Lower Taxes: There is a 9% tax plus a tax that is added when the product arrive.
Near Independence: If you so call near independence when another country is controlling you’re economic well you are really wrong.
Protection of PR: First there are no military bases in PR and second we are you’re army.
:D
No offense, but I think Puerto Rico is kinda better off as a US territory. From what I've heard the electorate there has repeatedly voted to remain an unicorporated territory (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_rico#Political_history) ) several times.
Besides, look what happened to the rest of Latin America...
Well if you have a candidate that tells you. “I will lower the taxes, I will try a fight against unemployment, I will take action and bring more money” will you vote for him? Any body would but what? This damn “Populares” are liars that only say thing’s but don’t do nothing, and people in PR don’t vote for a Side they vote for the guy that is rich so will PR will when he wins the campaign. And that’s the biggest and dummies thing happening here
Near Independence: If you so call near independence when another country is controlling you’re economic well you are really wrong.I am curious - in what way is your economy being controlled that you find distasteful?
Also, what reasons in particular do you have other than economic and and a semi-distinct culture (I say semi because here in Texas Mexican/Latino culture has merged to a large degree with American one). I'm sure it would be fun to say that you're an independent state, but I'm not sure that it would all be fun and games if you did become so.
Taxes - I have 8.25% state sales taxes (no state income tax, fortunately), on top of municipal taxes. Add federal taxes on there, including medicare, fica etc, and then you are starting to look lucky. :p
Wooden you like to see you’re country free? See it been rule by your own people and have a national representation in the world?!!.... I doIt sounds great and all, but what are the downsides? I can't speak to Puerto Rico specifically, but do they get at least some funding from the US? Other benefits? Would the standard of living decrease my seperating? Just make sure that by asking for the goodm things, you are willing to accept all the bad things.
I am curious - in what way is your economy being controlled that you find distasteful?
Also, what reasons in particular do you have other than economic and and a semi-distinct culture (I say semi because here in Texas Mexican/Latino culture has merged to a large degree with American one). I'm sure it would be fun to say that you're an independent state, but I'm not sure that it would all be fun and games if you did become so.
Taxes - I have 8.25% state sales taxes (no state income tax, fortunately), on top of municipal taxes. Add federal taxes on there, including medicare, fica etc, and then you are starting to look lucky. :p
We found distressful that we can not control our deal our economic relations because the U.S.A is in control of that. And Latin’s go to the U.S.A to fallow the so called “American Dream” they try to look way to benefit there lives and the lives of his family.
Another reason for Independence other that economic and culture is things we sure don’t like about U.S.A, If a war is called we have to go and fight, let me tell man in Vietnam almost all the people that fought there for the Americans where Puertorricans and black people. Now in Iraq there many soldiers that are many Puertorrican. You really don’t understand because you don’t live here day to day, we are here in a constant war against the politic.And 55% of PR money end up in the hands of the U.S.A and we cant use it to make better roads more projects more school’s and other things. They are Imperialist
Puerto Ricans aren't drafted. They are afforded the title of honorary American citizens, at the pleasure of Congress, and many _Volunteer_ for service in the US Armed Forces in order to become full US Citizens.
edit: And if the US is such an "Imperialist Power," than why on earth did we allow plebiscites in Puerto Rico to determine whether the people there wanted to be a US State, an Unincorporated Territory, or an independent nation?
Puerto Ricans aren't drafted. They are afforded the title of honorary American citizens, at the pleasure of Congress, and many _Volunteer_ for service in the US Armed Forces in order to become full US Citizens.
edit: And if the US is such an "Imperialist Power," than why on earth did we allow plebiscites in Puerto Rico to determine whether the people there wanted to be a US State, an Unincorporated Territory, or an independent nation?
Right now is volunteered but in World War II and in Vietnam wasn’t, the U.S.A is a Imperialist power like it or not, It has colonies with a title of “Non incorporated territory” like Guam, Puerto Rico , Virgin Islands , The Mariana islands and Samoa
Welcome to the real world. Really, what do you have to complain about? You're self governed. You practically are independent, except you also have those benefits AND the benefits of being part of the most glorious nation of the United States of America.
Right now is volunteered but in World War II and in Vietnam wasn’t, the U.S.A is a Imperialist power like it or not, It has colonies with a title of “Non incorporated territory” like Guam, Puerto Rico , Virgin Islands , The Mariana islands and Samoa
If we were truely an Imperialist Power, we wouldn't let you be complaining about being part of the United States. People disappear all the time in China for speaking out in protest.
If we were truely an Imperialist Power, we wouldn't let you be complaining about being part of the United States. People disappear all the time in China for speaking out in protest.
Quoted for truth.
So, Padawan, how well do you think your country could so without USA support? Not saying you can't, but how well do you think?
So far the only real downside to this debate is the fact you arn't in congress, and leaving the US would give no real benifits buts being independent.
And you might as well already be independent anyway, Puerto Rico is self governed.
And you might as well already be independent anyway, Puerto Rico is self governed.
Puerto Rico is protected by the US military, so Puerto Rico doesn't have to spend money on their own military.
Most glorious country? ….. U.S.A is one of the most corrupted places, they only care for money, petroleum and they’re on need. Why have the U.S.A is involucrate in al the modern wars? Iraq-Petroleum, Word War I and II because of the great depression they needed money and war brings money. U.S.A is not the most glorious for me its Swiss or Italia, beautiful countries with no politic disorder union amount people.
True_Avery we can do it by our self, we have agriculture, manufacture, and it is possible that in the north of PR there is a reserve of Natural gas… So I think that a nice treat with Venezuela or Colombia for petroleum can make it worth.
We may choose a governor and control only what happens inside PR but what about treat for commerce and control our economy we can’t, that’s why I believe in independence for PR.
We don’t need defense of another country we can make our own army, plus PR is no target for any country.
And as I said to you GarfieldJL Imperialism is a country that is in command of another political or economical.
Most glorious country? ….. U.S.A is one of the most corrupted places, they only care for money, petroleum and they’re on need. Why have the U.S.A is involucrate in al the modern wars? Iraq-Petroleum, Word War I and II because of the great depression they needed money and war brings money. U.S.A is not the most glorious for me its Swiss or Italia, beautiful countries with no politic disorder union amount people.
Check the history books, WW I and WW II were not caused or declared due to US provocation. True the Japanese attacked us do to our embargo against them, but the war in Europe was going strong by 1941. The lend lease program did produce jobs for this country, but not from our allies as we footed the bill for most of the equipment we shipped to England and Russia. In my opinion the US leadership was very interested in entering the war against Hitler, but the America people were against involvement until that infamous Sunday morning in December of 1941. Now the Gulf War and the Iraq war may have been fought to protect the oil supply, but WW I and WW II were not fought out of greed.
I’m not saying the US system of government does not have corruption in it, but calling the US “one of the most corrupted place” is a little out of line. A majority of the citizen are hard working, good people that only care about making the world a better place for themselves and the next generation. I guess every time there is a natural disaster around the world we are giving food, money and clothing just because we hope to steal from these poor people in the future? You can call America a lot of things, but we care about a lot more things than money and petroleum. We care about things like liberty, justice and freedom. We don’t always live up to our high ideals, but at least we give it an effort.
You have the right to say it is not glorious, that is a personal opinion. I don’t know if it is or isn’t the most glorious as I’ve only visited Mexico and Australia, but I think it is alright and wouldn’t want to live any other place in the Northern Hemisphere (I did say I went to Australia).
As to the original topic, I would say yes if a majority of people of Puerto Rico want independence then by all means they should have it. Although I do agree with a lot of the other posters that I do not think it is a good ideal, but hopefully my understanding of the situation is wrong and it would be a prosperous independence.
How would Puerto Rican independence affect tourism from the US? Or does that matter?
Imperialism by strict definition is true in this case, but I’d like to know just how is the U.S. restricting the Puerto Rican economy? Is it because we do not allow trade with Cuba? Is it we send over too many tourists?
Most glorious country? ….. U.S.A is one of the most corrupted places, they only care for money, petroleum and they’re on need. Why have the U.S.A is involucrate in al the modern wars? Iraq-Petroleum, Word War I and II because of the great depression they needed money and war brings money. U.S.A is not the most glorious for me its Swiss or Italia, beautiful countries with no politic disorder union amount people.
I don't think you give America enough credit for what it does. I don't agree with a lot of the United States' foreign policy but they are, essentially, policing the world now and you have to give them some kudos for that. For all their ills, the USA is a very benevolent power to have as top dog. They don't have to intervene in places like Bosnia, or give aid to starving and sick people across the world; they could hide behind their walls, sit at home, get some milky tea, and eat a couple of soggy biscuits. But they don't, they rule and defend the "free world."
The American Constitution is a marvellous piece of work and forms the basis of modern democracy - and the US citizens have every right to be proud of this document. Every nation is plagued by corruption nowadays but at least the Americans have state institutions for dealing with said corruption.
You also seem to be portraying the Americans as the aggressors in both the World Wars - which is completely false. In the Great War and in the European theatre of World War II - not well up on the Pacific theatre, so I can't comment - it was Europeans who decided to go to war... as we so often do.
Edit: I also don't know where you get this idea that the Scottish as a whole have a drive for independence that has been denied to them. The SNP currently runs a minority government in the Scottish Parliament and independence isn't even one of their policies any longer - they call for a referendum on that, not independence outright. If the Scots called a referendum and it was passed then the London government wouldn't stop them from forming their own nation. A lot of the SNP votes came because the SNP actually sat down and had a think about policy for once and presented themselves as a viable alternative, taking advantage of the disillusionment with New Labour and showing that people didn't have to "fear" voting for independence but merely a referendum on independence as a policy in the SNP's manifesto. Oh and William Wallace was alive hundreds of years before the union was even dreamt of - a man who rightly defended his nation against the English invaders. He has no bearing on the modern situation - no more than Edward II has.
Check the history books, WW I and WW II were not caused or declared due to US provocation. True the Japanese attacked us do to our embargo against them, but the war in Europe was going strong by 1941. The lend lease program did produce jobs for this country, but not from our allies as we footed the bill for most of the equipment we shipped to England and Russia. In my opinion the US leadership was very interested in entering the war against Hitler, but the America people were against involvement until that infamous Sunday morning in December of 1941. Now the Gulf War and the Iraq war may have been fought to protect the oil supply, but WW I and WW II were not fought out of greed.
I’m not saying the US system of government does not have corruption in it, but calling the US “one of the most corrupted place” is a little out of line. A majority of the citizen are hard working, good people that only care about making the world a better place for themselves and the next generation. I guess every time there is a natural disaster around the world we are giving food, money and clothing just because we hope to steal from these poor people in the future? You can call America a lot of things, but we care about a lot more things than money and petroleum. We care about things like liberty, justice and freedom. We don’t always live up to our high ideals, but at least we give it an effort.
You have the right to say it is not glorious, that is a personal opinion. I don’t know if it is or isn’t the most glorious as I’ve only visited Mexico and Australia, but I think it is alright and wouldn’t want to live any other place in the Northern Hemisphere (I did say I went to Australia).
As to the original topic, I would say yes if a majority of people of Puerto Rico want independence then by all means they should have it. Although I do agree with a lot of the other posters that I do not think it is a good ideal, but hopefully my understanding of the situation is wrong and it would be a prosperous independence.
How would Puerto Rican independence affect tourism from the US? Or does that matter?
Imperialism by strict definition is true in this case, but I’d like to know just how is the U.S. restricting the Puerto Rican economy? Is it because we do not allow trade with Cuba? Is it we send over too many tourists?
Thank for being the only one to say that if we want independence we should get it. And as far as I know U.S.A help people via the ONU. And I did made the mistake of saying that was one of the most corruption government but It dose have a big number of corrupted politics.
Thank for being the only one to say that if we want independence we should get it. And as far as I know U.S.A help people via the ONU. And I did made the mistake of saying that was one of the most corruption government but It dose have a big number of corrupted politics.
Well I would not wish any less freedom for you than I have myself. Texas is the only state in the union that can succeed anytime it wants. It is because Texas was once a Republic and when we joined the union it was more for protection from Mexico than to be a state. Statehood worked out pretty well for us, but we have a minority here that wants to be independent too. I’m not one of them; even with all its faults I do love my country almost as much as I love my state. ;)
Well I would not wish any less freedom for you than I have myself. Texas is the only state in the union that can succeed anytime it wants. It is because Texas was once a Republic and when we joined the union it was more for protection from Mexico than to be a state. Statehood worked out pretty well for us, but we have a minority here that wants to be independent too. I’m not one of them; even with all its faults I do love my country almost as much as I love my state. ;)
I under stand.... U.S.A is you're country and that’s why you wouldn’t like that Texas separates from U.S.A.
I under stand.... U.S.A is you're country and that’s why you wouldn’t like that Texas separates from U.S.A.
Uh besides the fact mimartin is proud to be an American, and feels that Texas benefits more as a state as do I and I was born in Texas btw.
The thing is, Padawan, your desire for independence has no real bearing - Puerto Rico will remain a territory until we say you're not.
The thing is, Padawan, your desire for independence has no real bearing - Puerto Rico will remain a territory until we say you're not.
I know.
The thing is, Padawan, your desire for independence has no real bearing - Puerto Rico will remain a territory until we say you're not.
That does not however take away from his desire or his right to dream about independence. Personally I find it hypocritical of myself not to wish him and his fellow county men and women well in their desire to make independence a reality. After all don’t we have American troops fighting and dieing as we debate this for what we call a better way of life and a chance at the freedoms we enjoy in this county. Why should we not desire the same thing for our neighbor? I say at the very least it should be put to a vote to see if a majority of Puerto Ricans feel the same way as The Padawan. Personally I believe it would be a mistake, but I’m not a Puerto Rican and my personal opinions don’t mean anything to their internal affairs.
I under stand.... U.S.A is you're country and that’s why you wouldn’t like that Texas separates from U.S.A.
True, but not what I meant. I was trying to say that as Texans I have the right, if a majority of Texans came to that decision, to leave the Union. Since I have that freedom I would hope anyone else would have that same opportunity. In other words I would like everyone in the world to have the same freedoms and opportunities than I have been afforded, more even.
That does not however take away from his desire or his right to dream about independence. Personally I find it hypocritical of myself not to wish him and his fellow county men and women well in their desire to make independence a reality. After all don’t we have American troops fighting and dieing as we debate this for what we call a better way of life and a chance at the freedoms we enjoy in this county. Why should we not desire the same thing for our neighbor? I say at the very least it should be put to a vote to see if a majority of Puerto Ricans feel the same way as The Padawan. Personally I believe it would be a mistake, but I’m not a Puerto Rican and my personal opinions don’t mean anything to their internal affairs.
True, but not what I meant. I was trying to say that as Texans I have the right, if a majority of Texans came to that decision, to leave the Union. Since I have that freedom I would hope anyone else would have that same opportunity. In other words I would like anyone in the world to have the same freedoms and opportunities than I have been afforded, more even.
I understand and Thank you.
The thing is, Padawan, your desire for independence has no real bearing - Puerto Rico will remain a territory until we say you're not.
Not quite true. Puerto Rico will remain an unicorporated Territory until the Puerto Rican people decide to do elsewise. Personally, I'd like to see Guam, Puerto Rico, and several other US territories become states, but that is up to the people of those territories to decide. On average, 60% of the Puerto Rican people vote to remain a US territory, which is a fairly strong majority.
In short, PR is a territory because the people there(or at least most of them, as the process is Democratic) want it to be.
Sidenote: Although Puerto Ricans are disproportionately represented in the US military, this is because they are Volunteers, and apparently wish to gain full US citizenship.
Not quite true. Puerto Rico will remain an unicorporated Territory until the Puerto Rican people decide to do elsewise. Personally, I'd like to see Guam, Puerto Rico, and several other US territories become states, but that is up to the people of those territories to decide. On average, 60% of the Puerto Rican people vote to remain a US territory, which is a fairly strong majority.
In short, PR is a territory because the people there(or at least most of them, as the process is Democratic) want it to be.
Sidenote: Although Puerto Ricans are disproportionately represented in the US military, this is because they are Volunteers, and apparently wish to gain full US citizenship.
Almost all of the puertorricans join the army for collage and to maintain there family, is not for US citizenship.
Not quite true. Puerto Rico will remain an unicorporated Territory until the Puerto Rican people decide to do elsewise. Personally, I'd like to see Guam, Puerto Rico, and several other US territories become states, but that is up to the people of those territories to decide. On average, 60% of the Puerto Rican people vote to remain a US territory, which is a fairly strong majority.
So in other words Padawan is in the minority, seriously if 60% of the vote is to remain part of the US.
Sidenote: Although Puerto Ricans are disproportionately represented in the US military, this is because they are Volunteers, and apparently wish to gain full US citizenship.
Technically aren't they already full US citizens they just have to prove residence in a state in order to vote in a Federal Election.
[QUOTE=GarfieldJL]So in other words Padawan is in the minority, seriously if 60% of the vote is to remain part of the US.[QUOTE]
But that 60% is as incorporated terretory not as state
[QUOTE=GarfieldJL]So in other words Padawan is in the minority, seriously if 60% of the vote is to remain part of the US.[QUOTE]
But that 60% is as incorporated terretory not as state
Yet you're still part of the United States...
Yup :S
Democracy works without all that pesky democracy. :)
In all honesty, the United States has been the only owner of colonies in history to have treated them quite well, from the Philippines to the overseas territories of today.
If the Puerto Rican people wish to become independant one day, then it'll happen. Currently, it seems the pro-soverignity movement is the minority, but it is possible that independantist ideas get more attention and movement gets more members. These kinds of modern nationalism would be fueled by a strong Puerto Rican economy. If the economy is strong enough to support the country on its own, the people will feel that it is possible for them to separate. Until then, it'll remain a territory.