http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11/23/news_6113877.html)

http://www.iccr.org/news/press_releases/pr_jtstatement112304.htm)

Another report of misinformed fools and of how parents are more and more leaving the education of their kids outside the house...

Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11/23/news_6113877.html)

http://www.iccr.org/news/press_releases/pr_jtstatement112304.htm)

Another report of misinformed fools and of how parents are more and more leaving the education of their kids outside the house...

what do you mean?

Them dumb ass peoples noted Prince of Persia as a non-violent game! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!

These people are the same people who are too preoccupied with trying to run other people's lives to actually take care of their kids and their own lives, thus their kids are deprived of attention and do stupid things to get it.

Seriously - if you don't like it don't support it. Quit trying to play Superman of the Media and deal with it. Its not going to go away because a few people say its bad.

Originally posted by Kain
Them dumb ass peoples noted Prince of Persia as a non-violent game! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!

I was about to say that, damnit Kain.

Anyway, I bet the only reason why they put Prince of Perisa on the list is because you kill Muslim's zombies in it. And we all know that's A OK![/sarcasm]

In all honesty, they're just probably on another absolve-Earth-of-Sin-so-I-can-have-porkchops-in-Heaven binge.

And I hardly think Halo 2 is violent. It's about as violent as playing laser tag, really. 'course, you could say the same for any first person shooter.

Hmm.. Funny, CS ain't violent? Hmm... :p

Whats to debate?

Violent video games are not the cuase of violence, for there was violence since the begining of mankind. I say the costumer is always right. It's people like US that make violent video games profitable. If game companies want us to play violent video games then they better give us games acording to our taste. (by the way, they dont see US protesting aginst THEIR non violent video games do we?)

frankly, out persoal choices are action packed fighting games. another thing, If parents don't like them they dont have to play them. They have no right to control other people's personal choices.

I don't ahve a problem with a few of their recommendations, but most of them seem pretty silly and badly though out.

Their list is very odd as well... I'd have thought manhunt, postal 2 and gta should have been up top, and i wouldn't have said halo 2 was any more violent than prince of persia..

Wait till prince of persia 2 comes out...
then they won't be happy. :D

I feel that the ratings as they now are are pretty good, they give both good descriptions and got symbols to warn of content... better even than films.
The only relevant issues these days are the shops following the rules, and educating parents about the ratings.

Which is just what this sort of group could do. Unfortunatley as their list is full of errors and odd choices it seems they need to educate themselves before they can educate parents.

(In the UK they sometimes use the film rating logos on games (18, etc..) which is actually less informative as to content, but does have the added recognition among parents.

prince of persia and jak 3 made the list of recommended games???? stupid morons....

i still fail to see where video games actually cause violence. the only thing that studies have deturmined is that games increase your reaction time, and especially with an fps, increase your visual accuity. i'd have to call those pretty positive consequences if you ask me. :D

my guess is that halo 2 made the list because of the multiplayer (humans and aliens killing humans and aliens. oohh, and the red blood :dozey: ) these people are opposed to anything that might insight violence, and so far, its a really big "might" with video games.

Kids can handle video game voilence unless they're like 5 or less, "mentally challenged" or it's something truly extreme (Manhunt, Soldier of Fortune). If I had an 8-year old I'd let him play Max Payne anyday.

The whole rating system is screwed up. I mean, Leisure Suit Larry had to be censored to avoid an AO rating (later the uncensored version DID come out with an AO rating, BTW) but a super-gruesome game like Manhunt only gets an M and doesn't have to be censored. So seeying boobies is suddenly worse than someone having thier throat slit with some broken glass?! Same goes for movies. American Pie was censored to get an R but Return of the King had severed human heads but got by with a PG-13.
Here in the UK it's slightly better, but we've got a long way to go.

People say that the Columbine shooters were playing a lot of Doom. WTF?
Doom doesn't teach you to shoot (NOTE TO OVERSENSETIVE PARENTS: To fire a gun you must use a trigger, not a mouse), and anyone confusing the sh*t graphics for real life must be pretty messed up to begin with.
Also, could it not be that voilent people are attracted to voilent video games, rather than voilent games making voilent people? I mean, if a mobster goes into a video store, what's he gonna rent? Finding Nemo or Robocop?

A mobster would rent the Godfather or Scarface :D

No seriously, I wouldn't let an 8 year old play Max Payne though even if he can handle it.


There has always been something wrong with America about sex and violence. Boobs are not tolerated but blood is. It is quite a weird way of thinking.

Originally posted by Crazy_dog no.3

The whole rating system is screwed up. I mean, Leisure Suit Larry had to be censored to avoid an AO rating (later the uncensored version DID come out with an AO rating, BTW) but a super-gruesome game like Manhunt only gets an M and doesn't have to be censored. So seeying boobies is suddenly worse than someone having thier throat slit with some broken glass?! Same goes for movies. American Pie was censored to get an R but Return of the King had severed human heads but got by with a PG-13.
Here in the UK it's slightly better, but we've got a long way to go.

Totlely in agreement here!

I read a story somewhere about a teacher who showed high schoolers a movie with a "fleshy" scene in it if you know what I mean? anyway, they were going "gross". but when a scene with a battle came, they watched it as if it was OK. the teacher asked them "nudity is gross but war and dismemberment isn't?" they then had to do an essay about why carnage is OK and nudity isn't.

that shows it!

Originally posted by Crazy_dog no.3


People say that the Columbine shooters were playing a lot of Doom. WTF?
Doom doesn't teach you to shoot (NOTE TO OVERSENSETIVE PARENTS: To fire a gun you must use a trigger, not a mouse), and anyone confusing the sh*t graphics for real life must be pretty messed up to begin with.
Also, could it not be that voilent people are attracted to voilent video games, rather than voilent games making voilent people? I mean, if a mobster goes into a video store, what's he gonna rent? Finding Nemo or Robocop?

truer words have never been spoken! Here ia a story to go with this:

My mom tried to make me stop playing Warcraft 2: Tides Of Darkness once. My Best friend introduced it to me. one day He showed a "body Burnin scene" to my mom and she hated it! "If you don't like it, dont play it", I told her. She just wantet to be a cathlic control freak. It was wrong for her to control my entertainment. I fought with her for months to get my rights back. she eventualy gave in. It was horrible. they threatened me and yelled at me if I asked about it again. to me, It will forever be known as "The Warcraft Crisis".

I say he higher ratings are meant to say "not suitible for ADULTS":D

as one guy said "On one hand, the anti-violent video games people think games are turning kids into lazy couch potatoes. On the other hand they think they are turning them into psyco killers. fortunatly we'll find them easy to outrun:D "

Originally posted by kipperthefrog

as one guy said "On one hand, the anti-violent video games people think games are turning kids into lazy couch potatoes. On the other hand they think they are turning them into psyco killers. fortunatly we'll find them easy to outrun:D "

LOL! :D

I recall it was Toms who said that, very funny indeed. Wonder if he thought of it. :D

Originally posted by Spider AL
I recall it was Toms who said that, very funny indeed. Wonder if he thought of it. :D

As the old saying goes "Nothing is new under the sun."

another quote:

"Only Adam could have said something and have been sure nobody said it before him."
-Mark Twain

It is so easy to blame video games, music or movies instead of bad parenting. I am 37 years old. My first "R" rated movie was Friday the 13th: Part II. That was roughly 22 years ago. I have sense never developed a desire to go on a killing spree.

The violent video games came around after I was an adult, but I see no difference between the video games and the music videos or heavy metal music that was around when I was growing up. At the time, Ozzy Osbourne and Blue Oyster Cult took a lot of heat for their songs.

I may be wrong, but I believe you have to be awfully weak-minded to let entertainment influence your choices on whether or not to commit violent crimes. It seems that every generation tries to blame the easiest target.

Whatever they say, I agree with you all. These games aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They pull in too much money for the makers to simply say, "Oh, yes, we'll stop making between millions and billions on our games.":p

I agree. Like the way they blamed Marilyn Manson for influencing those kids who committed the Columbine High shooting.

:eyeraise:

They always look for targets to blame without ever looking at the real problems of society. Of course, it is so much easier to blame public personalities or video games.

From what I've heard, the people that go crazy like at Columbine are already missing a few marbles. But people seem to have a bad tendency of assuming that if videogames, music, and TV can cause crazy people to go postal, then certainly they can cause sane normal people to do it too!

I've found these people shut up rather abruptly when I suggest we outlaw cars, hunting, cigerettes, medicine, owning domesticated animals, bicycles, household cleaners, religion, sex, and anything else that might be used by a crazy person to harm another.

... Parents should check and see what games their kids are playing instead of going out crusading... although I don't see why retailing couldn't make a rule about selling not selling M/AO games to minors, but then again I don't have that problem anymore :xp:

And they misspelled Mortal Kombat

I'm also sick and tired of hearing about these "video games addicts". They use video games like crack.

I keep hearing people saying it's not seen as a problem now but in 20 years it will and will become a social problem like cigarette and other drugs.

As if it was that one-sided and easy to understand.

About Colubine:

Ever notice how some Kids get cars and dates and fun, while othere get picked on? (when I was in school guys threw coins, broken crayons, clat and other things at me behind my back. I didn't know who was doing it. all this happening while OTHER guys get beutiful girls and all I ever get is bullies. It drove me crazy.)

I don't blame video games, I blame the social imbalance in teen society for the shootings. I also believe that there were chemical imbalance in their brains that also contributed to the mayhem.

Possible solution:

If we ever find some way to fix the obiesity crisis, and other things to make people look better(and there for people get treated better,) people will be hapier and less violent.

people are already working on a drug to "turn off" the reward system in the brain to end food and tobaco cravings to help people loose wight. there is also laser eye surgery so so-called "geeks" don't have to wear glasses".

to sum it all up, if we have more technoligy, to help us look better, we get treated better. if we get treated better, nobody goes insane and sprays the classrooms with 50 rounds of ammo.

Come on! Halo 2 isnt that violent wih the exception of the alien blood and the blood of humans. I have watched all the Robocop movies and there way more violent then them.

anyone else hoping these people die in some gruesome way... just for a laugh.

What can I say, they're fools and they have no possitive effect on the planet as far as I can see. -_-

once again:
http://www.boomspeed.com/insanesith/jthm_media_idiots.jpg)

Originally posted by InsaneSith
anyone else hoping these people die in some gruesome way... just for a laugh.

They won't have to even argue with you if you keep proving their case for them.



It's the same deal as with movies. They don't make people crazy, they just make the ones who already are crazy more creative. ;)

Well, I for one, try to be a very loyal Catholic.

That doesn't stop me from chasing helpless Grunts around and listen to the funny things they scream when they're scared. :D

I love Halo. And I think if parents do not want their kids playing violent video games, there is a solution: do not let your kids play violetn video games. But don't try to parent other people's children as well.

Halo and Halo 2 were hardly violent, and had an AWESOME story. I do not think MOST people would be negatively affected by it. I mean, I love Halo, but I love human beings and would never kill someone.

But say, I have an idea. We hate violence? Then let's ban the war in Iraq. That seems to be a lot more violent then then the 1s and 0s in our plastic-covered silicon chips.

It's the same deal as with movies. They don't make people crazy, they just make the ones who already are crazy more creativeActually copying the killings in movies makes them more unoriginal, and therefore less creative, surely... :p

But say, I have an idea. We hate violence? Then let's ban the war in Iraq. That seems to be a lot more violent then then the 1s and 0s in our plastic-covered silicon chips.Hee hee, yes! So many of the ravening fundamentalists that scream "ban these games!" are staunch supporters of neoconservatism and its middle-eastern warmongering. Fabulous hypocrisy.

Check out this review (http://www.ccgr.org/article_read.asp?id=584) of Doom III. Then check out this review (http://www.ccgr.org/article_read.asp?id=64) of a similiar sort of game.
Hypocrisy.

Look around thier site. It seems anything with ANY mention of the occult or hell or magic that is marked down.

I would have thought they would enjoy Painkiller (http://www.ccgr.org/article_read.asp?id=571) , seeying as it involves killing the Devil's henchmen and you are fighting on God's side.
But no. They complain about gore (I thought demons dieying gruesomely is a good thing), Satanic content (Observe, you are fighting AGAINST it) and Eve's nudity (what the hell is she supposed to be wearing).
Anyway, the Bible features voilence, gore, the occult and Eve running around naked, but they're fine with that.

Please don't consider this post an attack against Christianity though. It IS an attack on fundamentalist Christian hypocrisy though.

:lol:

I love these guys. Gave me a good laugh.

Have you seen the screenshots for "the suffering?" I generaly like violent video games, however, games about all out torture makes me feel sad. I don't like zombie games either for some reason.

I do like Hitman and Theif. Those are violent stealth games.

I find Thief a very moral game, because one loses levels (depending on skill setting) for killing innocent people, or killing people at all. It's also damn good fun. Thief 3 was excellent, though a little short.

Originally posted by Spider AL
I find Thief a very moral game, because one loses levels (depending on skill setting) for killing innocent people, or killing people at all. It's also damn good fun. Thief 3 was excellent, though a little short.

What did you think of the Shalebridge Cradle?

It was great! Not since Silent Hill 1 have I appreciated a horror-atmosphere more.

(i tried to make a christmas avatar, but it turned ot kinda fuzzy. I'll work on it later...)

I had nightmares about the shalebridge cradle, it was so scary. remember those guys with those cages around their heads? those were awful at first. the stone walkers and the keeper assasins were a walk in the park next to those guys.

I heard they were going to make a "modern" thief becuase "medieval thugs run it's course.". i don't like the idea, for thief is about garrett and his world. Ipersonaly have my own idea.

if they are getting tired of medieval thugs, garrett travels around the world. garrett can go to the middle east type place and persions with turbins could be enimies, garrett could also visit an asian themed place and sneak and fight samurai types. garret cold also go to a tropical island themed place with tiki huts and native canibals.

what do you think?

I think Thief 4 had better have Garrett as the main character, or Eidos Interactive will be checking the dark corners of their offices for ME for the forseeable future. :evil2:

Making a Thief game without Garrett would be like making a Jedi Knight game without Kyle!

And yeah, the cradle was horrific. They really did a good job on the creep-factor. :D

Originally posted by Spider AL


Making a Thief game without Garrett would be like making a Jedi Knight game without Kyle!


they kinda DID it. you create your own jedi and Kyle is the mentor.

Remember that girl Garrett cought picpocketing him? maybie Theif 4 will be about her and Garrett is the mentor.

they kinda DID it. you create your own jedi and Kyle is the mentor.Ahh that wasn't Jedi Knight series fare though, it was Jedi Academy... At least that would be my excuse if I were Raven. :D

Remember that girl Garrett cought picpocketing him? maybie Theif 4 will be about her and Garrett is the mentor.This brings up an interesting question, which is better, playing as a character of your own gender, or a character of another gender? I know many male players who used to use female avatars in JK, because they didn't want to look at a man's backside for hours on end.

Likewise I myself felt compelled to use a male avatar, because that was MY representation in the game world, MY avatar. So it had to be like me. That's the way I saw it anyway.

Downside: I had to look at Kyle's womanly bum a lot. :(

Originally posted by Spider AL
Ahh that wasn't Jedi Knight series fare though, it was Jedi Academy... At least that would be my excuse if I were Raven. :D

Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy is the official title if I'm not mistaken, so that is hardly a legitamite excuse. Nonetheless, your point stands. I was dissapointed when I first heard that you don't get to be Kyle in JA (still dont like that btw). On the other hand, I care much more about what the gameplay is like, then what character I am controlling.

Oh, as long as the game wasn't titled "Star Wars: Jedi Knight III: Jedi Academy" It's legitimate. I don't mind playing a random character in a side-game every so often, as long as the JK series proper continues with the bearded-one as the main character.

The problem is Kyle is now too powerful. An excuse for him to restart at "Lvl 1" is hard to find.

This has gotten very off topic.

I sense Skinwalker coming in.

Agred! Violence in video games is the subject at hand.

get this:

there are also people who beleive NURSERY RYMES are violent.

-CHECK IT OUT- (http://webcenter.health.webmd.netscape.com/content/article/97/104078.htm)

if you think humpty-dumpty and jack and jill are bad for kids, GET A LIFE!

Well, those old tales did contain murder and mayhem aplenty. Violence has been part of childhood storytelling since time immemorial. Think Grimm's fairytales. The idea that it does kids any harm is ridiculous of course. TV though, graphic imagery is somewhat different from hearing how humpty fell down, isn't it.

PS: Kyle doesn't have to restart at Padawan level at all. Don't know why people keep saying that. Keep him powerful. Make enemies more challenging.

It just shows how far people will go to control children's entertainment.

disgusting control freaks...

Hey we shouldn't tell them the story of Snow White and the Seven dwarfs because it contains lots of sexual undertones.

I mean, seven lonely men in the woods with a hot young woman...you get the idea.

I know it is stupid and that's what it is, trying to do some nitpicking on stuff that have been told for eons. Hearing the story of Humpty Dumpty didn't f*cked up generations of kids.

PS: I know it is a possible solution but somewhat a boring one. I mean, there would be no more chance for Kyle to evolve. The fun of playing a character is to see him evolve through the game. Of course, when all is given at the beginning, it can get boring quite fast.

I mean, seven lonely men in the woods with a hot young woman...you get the idea.Urgh. :( And thus about a million dirty movies were born.

Anyone who's had any experience with REAL violence knows that make-believe and reality are worlds apart. What encourages violence among children is things like beating them, turning a blind eye to bullying in schools, etcetera.

PS: Characters can evolve in other ways than gaining force powers... Plus, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to think up different powers (and different applications for the powers) to give him at different stages of the game.

well, to quite simply be myself, i think that parents should simply abide by the esrb system for games. on the esrb label (which is on every game box), it tells you exactly why the game is rated the way it is if the rating isn't "E".

making a list about what games not to buy your children is just plain stupidity. their morals are not everyone's morals by a long shot, so why try to impose it on everyone else?

i think that if the rating system was advertised or something, it would help parents understand what they are buying for their kids in the first place. if they can understand the mpaa rating system (for movies), then they can understand the esrb rating system just as easily.

Originally posted by Spider AL
1.Urgh. :( And thus about a million dirty movies were born.

2.Anyone who's had any experience with REAL violence knows that make-believe and reality are worlds apart. What encourages violence among children is things like beating them, turning a blind eye to bullying in schools, etcetera.

PS: Characters can evolve in other ways than gaining force powers... Plus, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to think up different powers (and different applications for the powers) to give him at different stages of the game.

1. Bow wow chick Bow Wow...

2. A sad reality. People are simply so lazy. It is so much easier to ban video games and other forms of violent media then to try and solve the real social problems.

PS: In an FPS with a certain RPG element, you need a character that can evolve in the "level" way. He's already a master, what more can he be, Jedi God? The only way they could pull it off is by having a very good storyline where instead of level development we get a psychological one а la Max Payne.

Originally posted by stingerh
i think that if the rating system was advertised or something, it would help parents understand what they are buying for their kids in the first place. if they can understand the mpaa rating system (for movies), then they can understand the esrb rating system just as easily.

But the people don't understand the ratings. They see rated M: "Ok that must be violent ". So they don't bother even checking it out. The ERSB is still better then the MPAA. Those guys are really...well...stupid...

The rating system says you can't play a Star Wars until you're thirteen. Sorry, but there's no reason why only teenagers should be able to play a Star Wars game. Star Wars is rated PG, not PG-13. Therefore the games should be E, not T.

Here in Europe we got the PEGI system. It goes like this...
3+ (haven't played any games from here)
7+ (The Sims and The Simpsons: Hit and Run got this rating)
12+ (Star Wars: KOTOR, Thief 3 and Return of the King got this rating. Suprisingly XIII did as well)
16+ (Painkiller and Deus Ex 2 got this rating)
18+ (havn't played any games from here)

Sometimes (here in the UK at least) we get the movie ratings instead of PEGI. Here we go:

U= Movies with this rating- All the Star Wars movies exept for AOTC, Finding Nemo
Games with this rating- ????

PG= Movies with this rating- Harry Potter series, Jurassic Park series
Games- ???

12= Movies with this rating- Second two LOTR movies, Dodgeball, Anchorman, Terminator 3 (!)
Games- ????

15= Movies- Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan, Bad Santa, Terminator
Games- Max Payne, Mafia, Silent Hill 3

18= Movies- Kill Bill 1&2, The Godfather, Face/Off
Games- GTA 3, Vice City, Manhunt, Veitcong (that's the uncensored European version, not the T-rated US version)

Originally posted by TK-8252
The rating system says you can't play a Star Wars until you're thirteen.

Thats not true. There are several games with E or K-A ratings, such as: the X-Wing series, Racer, Rebel Assault (2), etc. Still, you have a good point. I don't see any reason a game like Galactic Battlegrounds should have a T rating.

Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
But the people don't understand the ratings. They see rated M: "Ok that must be violent ". So they don't bother even checking it out. The ERSB is still better then the MPAA. Those guys are really...well...stupid...
ahh, ignorance and laziness. jeez, you'd think that parents could at least turn over the box and check out the rating label. it tells you right on the **** box why the game is rated the way it is. how much more simple can you get??? research isn't too difficult of a concept for them to grasp, is it???

*curses parental ignorance* :fist:
Originally posted by TK8252
The rating system says you can't play a Star Wars until you're thirteen. Sorry, but there's no reason why only teenagers should be able to play a Star Wars game. Star Wars is rated PG, not PG-13. Therefore the games should be E, not T.
your talking about two completely different rating scales here. ersb scale is designed to be simple so that parents give parents a ballpark figure as to what is in the game before they hand out the game to their kids. the mpaa scale is designed so that the feds won't get involved with fines or other hinderances to their movie being shown.

also, a 'PG' rating does not have the same meaning as an 'E' rating. an 'E' rating is really more along the lines of a 'G' rating in theaters.