On several occasions, I opened All Seeing Eye and browsed the amount of JA MP players. The average runs around 1500 at any time. I, then, on those same occasions, glanced at the number of JO MP players. There were approximately 1000 at any given time. Why do so many people still play JO MP? These figures give me a feeling that the games split the JO community; some wanted to stick with the status quo while the majority favored the change.

Did you know a lot of people went back to jk2? Even before the patch came out? Their properly sick of JA because of i dont know what.

Maybe because JO was more balanced?

Because JO MP is still the reference among JK MP gaming.
It has the best Maps....and Models (ok you also can use the models for JA...).
Good Moves....and lots of people like this kicking thing there.

Though you have only one saber in JO MP (except you use mods) it's simply more fun....

JA rocks in SP not in MP....too many people use the double bladed saber...other saber combinations aren't as strong as this...
saberfighting is too unbalanced there....
there have to be more patches for JA MP. Then maybe it will get as good as JO one day....

The amount of players for JK2 fluctuates rapidly up and down.

Sometime it's only in the 400's, other times its as many as 1500 (the highest I've seen as long as I can remember).

JA pretty much stays in the 400-600 range.


Could be a lot of reasons.

1) People haven't heard of the new game (believe it or not, lot of people don't pounce on every new release like many of us do).

2) People don't care about the new game (JK2 gives them everything they need so they don't want to move on). This is also the "brand loyalty" thing. Lots of people do this with games, movies, etc. The "old thing" is always better to them than the "new thing" even to the point where they won't try the next one even if they might like it better.

3) People have both but like some of the old features or style of play. Remember how many people complained how they hated the new sabers? Or the folks who complained that kicks were gone? Or the people who preferred the old maps? So there's still reasons if you own both games to dust off JK2 from time to time.



After all people have limited resources. JK2 (the regular boxed edition) stayed at $50 new for a LOOOONG time just about every store I am close to.

And JA was barely advertised until it had been out a long time, and it too has stayed at full price for a long period. You get console sales which are pretty high for both games, but the console versions are totally cut off from the PC community.

And of course they say most people who buy games don't even touch MP (unless it's an MP-only game like Galaxies).

People have only so many hours in a day to spend on games and only so much money to spend on servers, so they have to decide. JK2 has been out a lot longer and people have had time to grow accustomed to it and its mods, so that accounts for it being bigger.

If JA had been a HUGE leap over JK2 instead of what many saw as only an incremental improvement (and others saw as a step backward) maybe they would have left in droves like what happened to the old Quake communities when Quake2 came out, etc.

It all depends on how you look at it. But I'm not worried. 500 players is enough for me to find a game and enough so that hosting my own game still gets people.

The only thing that makes me sad is when seemingly every server has the same mod(s) and same settings going. That bugs me, because the game gets boring fast if there's no variety or too strict of rules.

JK2 (at least the times I've checked through all the filters on ASE) is dominated by saber dueling servers, usually running admin mods and with a lot of restrictions on force powers.

JA tended to have more variety, but that isn't always the case. I'm sad to see that a lot of servers are basically just doing exactly the same thing as they did in JK2. Aren't they getting a little bored of playing the exact same thing they've done for the past 2 years?


Each to his own though. JK2 was a fun game and great while I played it. Though I like JA a lot more and consider it more the rightful successor to JK/MotS than Jedi Outcast, even if it focuses less on Kyle.

For me it was NEVER all about Saber Fighting. In the JK1 days I played half saber dueling and half everything else. In JK2 I played even less sabers only. In JA I rarely play sabers only at all, too much of the "honor" crap going on to make it any fun, plus there's just a lot more strategies and excitement when you have the use of all the weapons and powers in the game rather than just one (especially when lag makes people whiny about hit detection).

That's another thing, some people never got used to the ghoul2 hit detection that required more accuracy (and was less forgiving apparently to slower connections). But me? I like hacking off heads! The staff doesn't "own" anymore than anything else, despite the way people continue to rant about it. At least not in my experience (again, since I don't focus only on sabers, maybe that's why I haven't witnessed this alleged "unbalance").

Of course the differences between the two are fast disappearing. Most of the maps and skins that people liked have been converted over, the mods have been made (even better) in JA. Xmod2 and others add back in flip kick options, and you even have OJP adding back in the missing game modes (CTY, etc) although a lot of tweaking and new maps need to be done, the point is they're there.

JA has better graphics, more options and more potential for the modding community. It takes a little better machine to run, but not much better.

The fact remains that some people hate the new sabers, and they always will. People who are set in their ways and good at JK2 who don't want to move on can't be forced to. So again, each to his or her own...!

I know many people who are playing both.

Sometimes you just miss some of those great JK2 maps like ctf_bespin and ctf_ns_streets. Other times you want to play some of the gametypes that Jedi Academy abandoned (like Holocron FFA and Jedimaster). Capture the flag on ctf_bespin, Holocron FFA on ffa_ns_streets, and saber-only Team FFA on duel_temple are my three favorite gametype\map combinations in Jedi Outcast, and there is no reason to give them up since people are playing them every day.

There is a mod (jk2mod) which brings all the old maps into JA, so thats a fixie as well. JA is an improvement on the code, there could be without a problem one "all in one" JO mod which makes it exactly like JO but with better gfx etc

Yup, I think it's a pity. A very good friend of mine chose to stay in JO MP. Why? He told me that the damage system in JA is too unbalanced, and that his clan members agreed with him. :( Oh well...

I just prefer 1.02 JO. JA's too nerfed imo. & the fact that there aren't any adminmods to deal with; you can join a FFA & actually play FFA :eek: without getting whined at, slept, slapped, arm broken, head exploded, etc. etc.

Granted, there are servers where that bull**** doesnt happen, they just seem to be few & far between.

Sorry for straying a bit off topic, those are just my reasons JA's a cup coaster now.

Or maybe they just cant stand the damage in JA because its not like 1.02, they are just too impatient to get used to the new stuff.

Many people were looking forward to JA, especially the dual sabers and staff. Now that they are here, people start whining about it, saying that the damage system is too unbalanced, and lots of other unnecessary nonsense. Probably one of the reasons why some stayed in JO MP.

I've lost count of how many times Kurgan has gone over the cvar settings for damage control.

if people are too lazy to read and then customize their servers then what else can you do.


let them keep whining.

he's already explained that the modding power is far greater with JA.

be patient.

IM studying up on C++ for Direct X 9 so i can unleash my creative talents on the mod community.

be afraid be very afraid.:D :D :D :vadar:

Originally posted by Kurgan
JA pretty much stays in the 400-600 range.


I have no clue where you got that figure. The minimum I ever saw on ASE was 900.

The old CTF maps were fun, and I would never mind playing them again.

It's true, all of the FFA, Duel and CTF JK2 maps have been converted to JA for a long time now (they were some of the first addon maps to appear for JA).

However they contain a few bugs, namely the lifts take about twice as long to show up and sometimes stop working, plus a few textures are off.

I talked to the guy who converted the files but he said without the original ".map" files he couldn't fix them up.

Of course he need only to talk to Raven if he's still serious, but I haven't seen the fixed versions so I guess not...

People have commented that the converted JK2 maps seem "smaller", possibly because the player models in Jedi Academy are slightly larger than in Jedi Outcast.

And then, there is the same old problem with 3rd-party maps: few of the typical public server players download them. I tried running them on my Jedi Academy CTF server, but the server would go from almost full to almost empty when those maps started.

Whereas right now ASE shows 170 real humans playing Jedi Outcast CTF and only 73 humans playing Jedi Academy CTF.

Better CTF maps, more populated CTF servers, more CTF players, that's partly why Jedi Outcast is still popular.

Originally posted by Michael Plant
Where can I get ASE?

http://www.udpsoft.com/eye2/index.html)

I have no clue where you got that figure. The minimum I ever saw on ASE was 900.

The old CTF maps were fun, and I would never mind playing them again.

Totally random "me checking ASE when I decide to check how many JA servers there are at any given time."

If I were really scientific I would have taken a running "tally" of the servers vs. players every day since the game came out, but I haven't so sadly my stats won't really "prove" anything definitatively.

Like I said it was just "my experience" and one needn't read anything more into that than I said.

Amidala, as far as "better CTF maps" that's a matter of opinion. I think that, like many of the other opinions about JA vs. JK2 varies. I remember how people said when JA first came out "these maps are so much better than that crap in JK2" but again, that may be just what I heard. I know out of the CTF maps in JK2 only two of them seemed to really be "liked" by the people I played with.

Though again one wonders, are people really still playing just the old base maps in JK2? Or are they using clan maps and the like? The thing is that any map JK2 can run so too can JA. And one would think that JK2 is surviving based on addons, of which there are many by this time and maybe some new players that haven't had a chance to get bored with the game yet.

Then again, there's the "counter strike factor" figuring in with the saber dueling. ; ) I know it happened to me with JK1 (and MotS), I played it for 3 1/2 years! MotS came out only 4 months after JK1 and it was an improvement, but far fewer people moved on to that game throughout its life. Of course it was an expansion that REQUIRED you to own JK1, so that was somewhat explainable.

I'm sort of of the opinion (again based on my experience looking at ASE stats at random times) that the JA community is "fast becoming" (if it isn't already) like the JK2 community has been for some time: Ie: dominated by saber dueling in FFA or Duel gamemodes.

The widespread use of admin mods also contributes to my (cynical) theory that a large part of the both communities are casual gamers simply interested in pretending to be Jedi fighting other Jedi... perhaps this accounts for the pervasivness of the "honor codes" and other such phenomena we complain about here.

Maybe the kinds of people attracted to this game simply by and large are happy just to duel? (regardless of the gametype offered)

They think "Jedi Knight" and they think clashing sabers. And those of us that like the game for what it is (an FPS offering a wide variety of options, and not limited to what we see in the movies), maybe we're just going to be in the minority inevitably?

JK2 Physics (rolls, etc) > JK3 (even with xmod. its just not natural when you have old style rolls. it just uh "jumps" around)

JK2 Sabers > JK3 Sabers (ghoul 2 anyone?)

JK2 Overall > JK3 Overall

JK2 is just more fun, polished, and once again fun.

I must admit that I played more JO than I have JA. Of course, I've also had less free time as of late, but not by all that much. I do agree that the combat seems to have been nerfed, though I blame the hit detection less than the loss of kicks and rolls, and just how frustratingly dumbed down the controls seem at times. I hate how force powers are drained whenever you do a simple move, so that before long both parties are left with swinging their lethal glowsticks at each other like a couple of ninnies until they have a little force energy back.

I don't mind the katas, but their usefulness is dubious, especially when all of your other moves take up force energy as well.

It seems to me that the doubled ended sabers, and the dual sabers are more powerful than a single saber, but not enough to put me off from being a traditionalist when it comes to picking single, normal lightsaber. Unfortunately, it really does look like soo many people use them. Of course, that's nothing new, people did that in JO as well, after the cheat was discovered, and mods came out making it that much more accessable. At least with the saberstaff. It would be nice if saber choices could be limited by the admins, though I really would like to see a mix of saber types and styles...so there is no perfect fix for that unless you start a private server and only invite likeminded friends.

I think the hit detection would have been more of a bonus than fodder for complaint if battling had been made more skill based, instead of less so.

I think the lack of solid maps at the very beginning hurt the game too, as compared to the classics from JO everyone loved, plus the fact that tons of excellent fan maps were everywhere for JO.

Speaking of which, tons of character models, maps, and mods of all sorts for JO, still far outnumbering the good fan stuff for JA.

I think given time, with a lot of the mods specifically bringing back JO moves, and just generally improving the game, that JA will eventually be aas fun, and more, than JO. But it will take some time.

Hopefully ig the next JK game comes out soon, it's a lot bigger of a step than over JA, than JA was over JO.

Originally posted by Radd
It seems to me that the doubled ended sabers, and the dual sabers are more powerful than a single saber, but not enough to put me off from being a traditionalist when it comes to picking single, normal lightsaber.

I don't know about that... In my opinion, single still owns double-ended and dual sabers.

Originally posted by Druid Bremen
I don't know about that... In my opinion, single still owns double-ended and dual sabers.

its not the lightsaber type, its the JEDI who weilds it. :cool:

Originally posted by |GG|Crow_Nest
its not the lightsaber type, its the JEDI who weilds it. :cool: RPGer!!!11

Originally posted by Prime
RPGer!!!11 It's OK, he bowed before he said that ;)

As i said when the game was released, JA is perfectly balanced, most of the people that return to JO are average idiots that dont understand this game.

The mods actually screwed the good points this game had, in them everything is ****ed up, the rolls, the damage, the hit detection system, the delay.

But I miss JO cause of all the ctf maps, ffa_deathstar, jedimaster and the ability to throw someone down pulling.

Since i am a jk2 player and a jka player i can tell you that the good clans of CTF saber only/fullforce don't like JA because of everything. bad maps, bad lifts and other stuff. while in jk2 u need to have skills to play well ctf, the same doesn't happy in ja ctf. kicks are extremely usefull in CTF, and don't tell me that they are invincible beucase u can kick first OR u can make the red glitch. u don't know it? then u probably never played a decent CTF game. most of people of jk2 ctf tried jka ctf and didn't like it because of this. unbalaced sabers? well that's not the worst problem. it's like playing against a speed+rager. just need to work on defense. the problem is really the all others. and btw in a jka ctf so/ff a flag carrier only dies if he wants it. why? because u can avoid all the moves, u don't need to fight. in jk2 u can't do it.

Originally posted by A Jedi
But I miss JO cause of all the ctf maps, ffa_deathstar, jedimaster and the ability to throw someone down pulling. Me too. The maps were definitely more fun. Not sure why really...

Each to his own of course, but I don't really understand the logic here.

If JK2 sabering is superior to JA (I'll just take it as a given since it's an unprovable opinion), that still is only 1% of the overall gameplay. Sure, you say Sabers Only FF CTF (that all these elite clans played) but again, that's a tiny niche of the overall gameplay.

Most of the S/O FF CTF clanners I've talked to admit that outside that gametype (and possibly dueling) JA is fine. But oh, they claim, guns in the JK series are just terrible. Okay, well if that's your argument, then I guess the series sucks, since guns make up a huge part of it.

Again, I'm assuming that people are taking the two games and assuming that the ONLY way to play is "saber 2 saber" as a certain Jedi likes to say on my server. ; P


I rest my case then... *sigh*


The maps thing is simple, you can play any and all JK2 maps in JA, with minor tweaking. The popular maps have already been converted or remade in the new game or are in the process of being remade/converted. The skins already work. The gamemodes work with OJP + converted JK2 maps. Putting your map in JA means you can add vehicles and have more objects and pretty shaders in it too.

So what's left?

Another thing I wonder is if people actually prefer the third party mod maker produced dual sabers/saberstaff in JK2 to the Raven created ones in JA?

Because remember Jedi Academy mod and others are the most popular with the JK2 crowd today.

Originally posted by Ace-_Ventura
Since i am a jk2 player and a jka player i can tell you that the good clans of CTF saber only/fullforce don't like JA because of everything. bad maps, bad lifts and other stuff. while in jk2 u need to have skills to play well ctf, the same doesn't happy in ja ctf. kicks are extremely usefull in CTF, and don't tell me that they are invincible beucase u can kick first OR u can make the red glitch. u don't know it? then u probably never played a decent CTF game. most of people of jk2 ctf tried jka ctf and didn't like it because of this. unbalaced sabers? well that's not the worst problem. it's like playing against a speed+rager. just need to work on defense. the problem is really the all others. and btw in a jka ctf so/ff a flag carrier only dies if he wants it. why? because u can avoid all the moves, u don't need to fight. in jk2 u can't do it.

Well the good JO SO FF ctf clans are the ones that played too much in ctf JO (and well other games too) and therefor they rule at THAT, becoming elite. JA SO FF ctf is diferent, i can tell u that cause i was very good at JO ctf and i have been playing a lot of JA ctf lately. But this diference is apreciated wrongly by those elite clans that realize their strategys dont work anymore, so they prefer the old game where they know they will still be good.

Actually the ctf i have been playing the most is with guns, and it sux bad, usually at chop shop or refresh server.
I have played a lot of times in the Xmod server which runs the xmod, with kicks SO and FF, but the rolls are buged and the hit detection system is awful, so it sux too.

I also said when the game was released that playing ctf with jedi master force level screws the gameplay, cause they will have full push pull, full absorb, full heal, full speed and seeing. With that u r unstopable, even more with team heal and team energize.

Playing with the midle level of force and an slow regen of force makes the game very balanced. thats the way the good ctf was played in JO, at least in 1.02. And if the diverse team is gona say again that not having all the force powers suck, well then u r all a bunch of noobs, and should go back to JO.

The problem is that there isnt a good SO FF CTF server out there for JA.

Now, about duels, they are way better in JA than in JO, u think parrys are random? well u r a ****ing noob, when u perfect that aspect of the game u will see why is the game so balanced.