It's amazing; some servers say single saber is the one, yet you read the forum here and many say staff is the most powerful. And yesterday when I played, it seems to me on saber-only/no force servers, most people use dual sabers.
So what's the story here?
The fact no single saber style seems to be clearly number 1 might mean we have balance between staff, dual and single? :P
Originally posted by Hoth
It's amazing; some servers say single saber is the one, yet you read the forum here and many say staff is the most powerful. And yesterday when I played, it seems to me on saber-only/no force servers, most people use dual sabers.
So what's the story here?
The fact no single saber style seems to be clearly number 1 might mean we have balance between staff, dual and single? :P
Download a dual staff mod, THAT'S the style that "owns" as you like to call it
For single saber i say red owns, but i still think staff stance is the best. :cool:
fists + jk2 kicks > *
but if i had to choose i'd use single. blue and red, depending on the situation.
Red kata spamming. Best ever. Or in JO Red DFA spamming.
:D
Originally posted by |GG|Crow_Nest
For single saber i say red owns, but i still think staff stance is the best. :cool:
They made the staf to good. Damn 1 hit kill atack.:(
Learn to read it. All chained attacks have wind-ups, or pre-attacks. They can't kill you with the first attack. And after that first attack you can basically know what move they're going into next. Leaving you to duck under or jump over certain moves.
Originally posted by Lightning
They made the staf to good. Damn 1 hit kill atack.:(
Not really, that is only the butterfly. It seems that only the last part of the butterfly move is the strongest. Dunno why its like that. But people only spam it during an FFA.
yeah, in crazy ffa you can get mass kills with staff butterfly, but in 1 on 1 duels you're not gonna do to well with it :)
I've heard a wide range of opinions on the subject.
My general opinion is that all types are pretty much balanced, however I will admit that I'm not a "Dueling Master" (I play Duels probably 1% of my overall JA MP gaming time).
I will however state that I feel strongly that when asking this question we should look at some factors that would affect the situation where a certain type "owns."
First off, let's assume that in a saber battle players are going to have Level 3 Saber Defense and Attack.
Without full defense the blocking for a saber is going to be less, without attack the ability to win a lock will decrease and (for the single saber) you'll be limited to what stances you can use (3 has all, 2 lacks Strong and 1 has only Fast).
Scenario #1 - The Lightsaber Challenge:
On a Full Force FFA server, two people challenge each other to a duel. Most people "honorably" (or whatever) decide to start with full health and the same amount of shields (say the starting 25 or 100 after grabbing some pickups). They each are limited in their force usage (by the game itself) to Force Jump, and the Saber based force powers (Attack, Defense, Throw).
Who would win here? We assume the Single Saberist has access to all three styles so he can mix and use whatever moves and tactics he wants. The Staff and Duel saberists can switch to their secondary single blade styles anytime they want to for moves and all have full Defense and Attack so you can't make a case that one would always win a saberlock or not be able to block stuff.
Scenario #2 - Full Force Duel:
On a Full Force Duel Server, two contestants go head to head, using whatever force powers they want. They both have the default starting health/shields (100/25) and there are NO pickups whatsoever to help them. The arena is limited so they can't run away and heal (except maybe on Yavin which is the biggest dueling map in JA). Unlike the above they aren't limited to certain Force powers, so they can be Dark or Light, etc. "Full Force" implies it's Jedi Master level so they each have 100 force points to use and both players can be expected to use all they possibly can.
For the sake of argument we'll assume (as most Dueling servers do) that they can't use Melee instead of a saber or whip out a BlasTech pistol.
Scenario #3 - No Force Duel:
Now, who would win? We assume that no "active Force" can be used, meaning that all they can use are their Saber based Force Powers (maybe not Throw?) and Level 1 Force Jump.
Now this can't be a "pure" No Force duel, because without saber attack we have no sabers (melee only) and without defense we can't block anything with the sabers. So we'll assume they have only (Level 3) saber based powers and level 1 Jump.
(somebody correct me if I'm wrong about No Force, since I haven't played it this way since JK2 and it's been awhile).
So who would win in Scenario #1? Assuming both players are "skilled"? Staff, Single or Dual? Scenario #2? #3?
Two other important factors to consider are saberdamagescale and forceregentime.
It's worth noting that while saberdamagescale is 1 (described as "weak" by fans since 1.04) is the default, Raven recommends 2 or 3 for FFA and for people who don't want "long duels." Myself and many other admins are increasingly adopting 2 (sometimes higher) settings for damage. This is then a factor in the dueling scenarios above. Is the damage set to 1? If it's set to 2 does this alter the outcome?
Next there's forceregentime. The default is "200" (which is what I use, since this is what Raven intended and balanced the game for). With this you have to converse your mana and use it wisely. Still many servers have chosen (misguidedly I feel) to jack up the regeneration so that it takes far less time. The most popular choice seems to be "0" meaning players have effectively unlimited mana in combat. This leads to so-called "spamming" tactics of moves that require mana usage or in Full Force Duels.
So how does this "infinite mana" factor affect the outcome of the contest?
Consider those and then let's move on to the decision....
Let's say in a series of 5 matches across different base JA dueling maps. Who takes the best out of 5 for each?
I'd like to hear expert opinions and reasoning for your answers.
I'm no expert but personally I believe in a 1 vs 1 situation the staff is the weakest.
Why?
Because it's vulnerable from down low and up high. The single saber red DFA and the dual sabers twirl are one-hit kills. These are instant death to the vulnerable staffer at close quarters.
And the staffer?
By comparison, the staffer doesn't really have a lethal 1-kill move that is relatively easy to execute as the DFA and dual twirl.
The nearest thing to a 1-kill move is the Butterfly, and this is very hard to use in a 1 vs 1 situation with success. As said above, it's mainly used in FFA.
Another thing I think I should add to my post above is that I don't think it's right to consider the "styles" as vs. each other.
In JK2 we only had one saber, so it was a debate over which "style" (or stance as they are commonly called) was the best?
This assumed that a player used one stance exclusively in battle, which is far from the norm as I see it.
In JA we should not consider three different styles, as if this were a Jedi role playing thing, but rather the single saber is three-stances-in-one that can be used anytime.
Likewise the Staff and Duals each have an "alternate stance" that can be used anytime, so these each should be considered "two-stances-in-one" weapons.
Staff an Dual users get their "alternate stance" no matter what, but single saber users have to give themselves Level 3 saber attack to get all three, however why handicap the Single Saber as if people can't use all of its powers in a battle?
Originally posted by Hoth
The nearest thing to a 1-kill move is the Butterfly, and this is very hard to use in a 1 vs 1 situation with success. As said above, it's mainly used in FFA.
It can also be a 1-hit kill even in a 1 vs 1 battle, if the oppnent is slow or just day dreaming, you can kill him or injured him badly.
(I don't play duels, so my opinion is only valid for FFA)
Which style ownz?
I'll keep this simple, because it is.
Staff : most damage = clicking fest (IMO)
Dual : alternative. looks cooler IMO
Single : the one. looks really professional, because most peeps in MP will use staff and duals. I like to look professional. Don't forget that Dooku pwned Anakin in Ep2 also....
But the most powerful is the satff, as it does nearly the same damage as a red style with medium speed.
But a red style with speed slvl 3 and dark rage slvl 3 is also dangerous
Originally posted by |GG|Crow_Nest
It can also be a 1-hit kill even in a 1 vs 1 battle, if the oppnent is slow or just day dreaming, you can kill him or injured him badly.
lol, such an opponent is stupid and not worth bringing into this thread.
I competely disagree Darth54. All the best players I see in multiplayer 1 on 1 use single saber red mode, and yep, you guessed it, 1 heavy swipe downwards is how they get most of their kills.
Ive seen it hundreds of times. Duals and staffs have to work much harder for their kills than this cheese.
Originally posted by Darth54
But the most powerful is the satff, as it does nearly the same damage as a red style with medium speed.
Hmm...
You see i use staff all the time, which swing does the most damage with staff?
During a duel i dont do much damage to my opponent.
Originally posted by Darth54
I like to look professional. Don't forget that Dooku pwned Anakin in Ep2 also....
It's only a game cheif......
Single saber yellow style. It entirely owns the single saberists. But against staffs/dual sabers, I would recommend using red style if you are a single saberist. Using other styles would be suicide. Staff yellow is about the same as single yellow, but it has better defence.
I don't play duels, so my opinion is only valid for FFA)
Which style ownz?
I'll keep this simple, because it is.
Staff : most damage = clicking fest (IMO)
Dual : alternative. looks cooler IMO
Single : the one. looks really professional, because most peeps in MP will use staff and duals. I like to look professional. Don't forget that Dooku pwned Anakin in Ep2 also....
But the most powerful is the satff, as it does nearly the same damage as a red style with medium speed.
But a red style with speed slvl 3 and dark rage slvl 3 is also dangerousQUOTE]
I disagree, Staff can be easily avoided with force and normal regen or nf and normal regen (if regen is 0 then dual barrier is as spammy as the bf).
Smart dual players will conserve their force and do the one move that gets lots of kills - barrier (high mouse sens. highly suggested). Just jumping in reguarly into dogfights/saber fests will get you loads of kills, it can also beat the bf easily if directed correctly
Single needs the most practice to be put to any use in a ffa/tffa, learning some combos does the trick though and a good single ffa player can compete with the other sabers.
Also, the staff might be powerful and quick, but it's defence is nothing to boast about, a few simple slashes from red-single and it's all over the place unlike duals.
[QUOTE]During a duel i dont do much damage to my opponent.
Like I said, by the time you are able to kill using high damage agaisnt high defence (to a single or maybe dual), high damage (from red single) against staff's poor defence will get you killed quicker. :p
if the oppnent is slow or just day dreaming, you can kill him or injured him badly.
------------------------------
lol, such an opponent is stupid and not worth bringing into this thread.
Well most players aren't in an absolute zen state when playing jka, if everyone was at their best reactions then you wouldn't be able to surprise anyone very often at all with an abnormal move. :p I find that quite a lot of players aren't totally locked into the game and can be slow.
The single saber red DFA and the dual sabers twirl are one-hit kills.
Not really, 1/10 times you will get a staff user bang on the head with a dfa... maybe less not to mention that most people actually move. Also, i think you are talking about the dual barrier? Well then that is so easy to avoid in 1on1 situations it isn't worth mentioning imo, just time the bf right or lunge (most people don't bother learning to get the right timing though) and you have your self a dead dual user (or almost dead).
The nearest thing to a 1-kill move is the Butterfly, and this is very hard to use in a 1 vs 1
So is dfa (to connect - you never do, leaves your back open and hits in the back hurt more in jka) and dual barrier won't get you a kill.... they jump away and you die.
The fact no single saber style seems to be clearly number 1 might mean we have balance between staff, dual and single? :P
Respect to Raven for that :)
Single, staff and duals, are almost perfectly balanced, in every gametype, in every situation, in the hands of someone that knows how to use them.
When you know how to control them, every style can be lethal.
For my part, i play Dual because i like switching between dual saber and single saber blue stance.