This was a post I made in the Duelers forums but knowing Lee, he'll remove anything I post. My guess is, he doesn't really want the truth to be known, that's why he removes them. So, I am putting this copy of the thread out to let the truth be known because I don't want there to be any misconceptions.

For those of you wanting to check out Duelers mod (which I do recommend, best server & client side mod for JK2 IMO) you can go to http://duelers.jk2files.com) & get whatever you need.

Originally Posted by The_Wanderer
I went to download Dulers Mod 1.3.1 and all the Dueler's Mod files disappearded!!!! What is going on?!!Originally Posted by LeeOattes
Unfortunately, FileFront made a decision to remove the mod from their servers as (ex-duelers team member) Marker has been making such as fuss about his contributions continuing to be used. No one felt that Marker had any reasonable claim to copyright, but in the interest of putting the whole thing behind us, the files were removed.

The good new is that I had a weekend a few weeks back to effectively redo all of Marker's work myself. The new version should be showing up on jk2files.com shortly. It has a new hilt pack, new sound mod, and new background loading image. All of the new stuff is completely Marker-free content, but since I used the same sources as Marker did (hence the sillyness about copyright) everything is still pretty similar. Of course, the game code in 1.4 is identical to 1.3.1 so the base mod has not changed at all!

If you want to get 1.4 right now, try http://members.rogers.com/lee.oattes/duelers1_4.zip)

cheers,

LeeOriginally Posted by Marker0077
You can't modify someone elses work & claim copyright on it, however, you can claim copyright on the changes you've made.

All the hilts in Duelers (then & now) are the hilts that I put together. I repositioned the hilts, the blades, I set the new texture paths, etc; etc. but unfortunately, aside from a MS3D file, I have no way of proving I did the work I claim to have done. I didn't continue pursuing this matter because my attorney isn't willing to play ball with just that alone.

All the work I can prove I own copyright on has been removed from Duelers, thus you have Duelers 1.4; But the hilt pack still remains & there's really nothing I can do about it, so Lee has no problem with taking it. That's okay though, live & learn. All models in CM include a new mesh that fixes this in case this happens again. This was my attorneys idea actually.

I realize that this whole ordeal is pretty ridiculous & lame but I'm not going to just put up with being taken advantage of. I tried to work out negotiations with Lee for him to use my work & me to use his (even though he previously agreed to one) but he declined - & that is his right. What isn't his right is to take my work & use it in his project when he's not willing to share his own.

Lee, you can claim "company property" all you want, this isn't a company & even if it was, people get paid for the work they do (i.e. sharing your work, not legal tender).

Just so there is no misunderstanding about my position with the Duelers project, I am still promoting Duelers mod via Cool Mods. I'm not including it in Cool Mods (no way in hell), however, I will still promote the mod in a variety of ways such as shortcuts to the Duelers site via actual windows shortcuts, links in the manuals, etc; etc. I don't want people to think I am anti-Duelers, far from it, Lee is an intelligent coder & he makes a terrific mod & for me to not promote it, would be unproffessional. Unfortunately, there are just some things that I can't put up with, which is why I am no longer on staff & never will be again.

Jeez. Are you still going on about this?

Never mind, I don't care.

In any event, this is a JO mod and thus this thread should go in the JO forum, not the JA one. And there is already a thread about this in the JO forum. So why not just post in that?

Not again :o

And I have the same question as Prime, why post it here? More publicity? :p

Hey guess what, no one gives a flying **** that you got lamed, threatened, abused, called or hurt in any other way.

Thnx;) .

#1 It's also a JK3 mod or at least in plans to be, that's why it's here.

#2 Do you have nothing better to do than to complain here? If you don't care then DON'T POST. Your complaining is not going to stop me from what I am doing, it's just going to make you look like a whiner.

That's what complainers do, they complain because they enjoy complaining. *IF* they didn't enjoy complaining - THEY WOULDN'T BE DOING IT. They'd find better use of your time.

I'm not complaining here, something was said so I'm clarifying - that's it. Matter fact, I'm still supporting the project after all the BS.

If you don't care, that's your opinion & you're entitled to it, but some people actually come here because they care about the project.

Do not post your derogatory & pointless commentary here please. Be a grown up FFS & let the people who care about the topic enjoy the thread.

Hey guess what, no one gives a flying **** that you got lamed, threatened, abused, called or hurt in any other way.
hmmmz, sad that ppl keep looking away like this :( i still think this is of public interest, as it's a public mod, and marker really worked for it. his work is his property, and noone can take him his rights.

that he's still posting this should prove the seriosity.

Originally posted by Sam Fisher
why post it here? It seems he did post the exact same thing in the JO forum. It hasn't gotten any responses yet though, except mine :) He could have posted this in any variety of other similar threads in the JO forum. God knows there are a few.

Originally posted by Sam Fisher
More publicity? :p Maybe. He got mad when people said they didn't care about the mod or events surrounding it (some rudely), and he said don't post if you don't care. The thread promptly died (It seems I have the last post). You can have a look at the thread here. (http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106745&highlight=Duelers) It is a pretty funny read for those who like flame wars, and it will certainly get people up to speed with the whole sorted story if they are so inclined. Note that this goes back to last July. Yikes.

Ironically, he is complaining about other people using his work that uses other peoples work. Though, not technically the same issues, I do find it a little funny :)

EDIT: I see there have been some other posts while I was writing mine. So since I do not have an interest in this mod, I will follow the instructions and stop posting in this thread.

Bye ;)

Originally posted by Prime
Ironically, he is complaining about other people using his work that uses other peoples work. Though, not technically the same issues, I do find it a little funny.The difference is I got peoples permission to use their work. I have even gone out of my way for a few of them. Even if someone couldn't claim copyright on their work (like most sound mod developers) & wanted me to remove it from my project - I would.

No, I didn't make the hilts, however, I did spend god knows how many hours going through the files section on the old JKII.net site & the JK2Files.com site picking that stuff out, then going through the rest of the process as described above. Most of them were originally for SP only.

Yes, most of the work is by third party authors, however, I did quite a bit of work myself.Originally posted by Prime
So since I do not have an interest in this mod, I will follow the instructions and stop posting in this thread.I don't mind people posting their opinion, good or bad. What I (& I am sure everyone else does as well) DO mind & do not want to read or deal with, is people who only contribute complaints & derogatory commentary, that's all I'm saying.

Marker asked me to comment on this so here's my two cents on it....

Yes, Marker was wronged by Lee's actions, but he needs to forget it, move on, and then never deal with Lee again.

Attempting legal action is simply a waste of time and effort since we can't make money off our efforts anyway. And trying to continue to support a project after it's basically been stolen from you is a bad idea also.

Originally posted by razorace
Marker asked me to comment on this so here's my two cents on it....

Yes, Marker was wronged by Lee's actions, but he needs to forget it, move on, and then never deal with Lee again.

Attempting legal action is simply a waste of time and effort since we can't make money off our efforts anyway. And trying to continue to support a project after it's basically been stolen from you is a bad idea also.

Well stated. The subject is just plain tired.

Marker...discuss the future of your mod and where your going with it, not where it has been. It's time to move on and forget about Lee Oates (or whatever his name is).

Originally posted by Darth Kaan
Well stated. The subject is just plain tired. Indeed.

To put this bluntly:

Grow up marker, you may have done the work, but when you contribute to a project like that once you have contributed, then you have no real say in what is done with it. 1. There is no way you can have anything significant done about it since, after all, YOU DID NOT MAKE THIS GAME, THEREFORE IT IS NOT YOUR PROPERTY.

And yes as much as we feel for you about how you got ****ed over, we don't really care, especially since you have gone on about this on every forum you have bookmarked endlessly.

Its time to move on, plain and simple.

Before I get into the replies, I apologize about the wait here people but my internet was down so I was MIA for awhile there. Anyways..Originally posted by razorace
Attempting legal action is simply a waste of time and effort since we can't make money off our efforts anyway.I don't do the project for money, none of us do, however if there was a lawsuit, I would have definitely came out of this with a profit. I wouldn't do it otherwise because then there wouldn't be a point. Not enough of one to make me pursue it anyways.Originally posted by razorace
And trying to continue to support a project after it's basically been stolen from you is a bad idea also. He didn't steal the source code, that's mostly his work & it is a good mod. It's not like I am adding the thing to CM, then I would be supporting it - that's not what I am doing. I'm endorsing the mod because it is a good mod & he is a good coder, regardless of our personal differences.

I just think for me to not tell others about a good mod simply because I do not like the coder is not only unproffessional, it's immature.Originally posted by Darth Kaan
Well stated. The subject is just plain tired.I realize that alot of you have already heard this story & don't care to hear it again, so don't. Don't read what's posted & don't reply back. Alot of you don't seem to realize that there are some people out there who have not heard this all before & may want to (which won't really happen until CM is released).

Lee made a statement that made it seem like I was anti-duelers & I'm not, so I just wanted to clarify. Nothing More.Originally posted by Darth Kaan
Marker...discuss the future of your mod and where your going with it, not where it has been. It's time to move on and forget about Lee Oates (or whatever his name is). It is being discussed but it's not something I am discussing in general discussion, perhaps I should. more publicity certainly couldn't hurt. It's just not something I am really pursuing until I have something released. I just think everyone is going to look at what I say with my project as empty words with out something material to look at.Originally posted by Rumor
...you may have done the work, but when you contribute to a project like that once you have contributed, then you have no real say in what is done with it.Again back to the whole this isn't a company thing. We were a team & there was no agreement that he could keep the work if I left, just assuming so is your own (& his) mistake. He knew the work would go with me, that's why he sneaked around about it but whatever, it is what it is.

Anyways, as far as what I gave him, yes that is the case. I didn't think to make those kinds of precautions because I trusted the guy, owell, live & learn.

As far as what I put out in the future, no that is not the case. I now include a custom mesh with everything I put out & that gives me copyright in part (& in some cases whole). In order for people to use it at that point, they will have to remove the mesh which means they may as well be using the original authors version which was what I want people to be using in the first place. So it's a win win for me there.

Originally posted by Rumor
1. There is no way you can have anything significant done about it since, after all, YOU DID NOT MAKE THIS GAME, THEREFORE IT IS NOT YOUR PROPERTY.I never said nor implied I made the game, mod, whatever. I did quite a bit of the concept design but that certainly doesn't entitle me to ownership in part, again nor did I say or imply that. What I did say was I created some of the work & I didn't want that included & yes that *is* my property. If you create something, it's yours. If you create something in part then it is yours in part. That's how the law works & that's just how plain business ethics works, so anyway you look at it, that's how it should have gone down.

Either way though, if I really hadn't done anything "significant" then that's all the more reason why you should just not use my work & do what I did on your own (his own, whatever). He used my hilt pack afterwards so appearently it was significant enough because he could have just used the JediMod hilt pack.

Originally posted by Rumor
And yes as much as we feel for you about how you got ****ed over, we don't really care...Anyone else notice the contradiction here? Woteva, doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Rumor
...especially since you have gone on about this on every forum you have bookmarked endlessly.lol. The only time I bookmark & leave links to the other threads all via the threads is when I take up polls on what people want in the mod. Aside from that, I never do that.

I post in GF & LF, that's it when it comes to something like this. I go the extra mile with the clan & other community forums when it's in regards to features in the mod.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback everyone.

Originally posted by Marker0077
It is being discussed but it's not something I am discussing in general discussion I have no idea what this means...

Soz, I'm used to GamingForums. The Jedi Academy forum here on LucasForums, that's what I was referring to as "General Discussion". For the most part, CM has been discussed in the OJP forums. I intend on creating a few different forums for CM at GF (which was supposed to be up & running already) but I'm dealing with a variety of problems at the moment so please try & understand that I am doing what I can & I have tons to do. Way too much for one person to say the least.