Something I'd like to point out, alot of the stuff we are adding to OJP is going to be for OJP supporters *only*. In case some of you forgot (or just didn't RTFM), OJP *is* a developers union of sorts & we encourage sharing each others work. If you are the type of person who does not want to share their work with others then you have little to no place here (RA please correct me if I am wrong on that, this was my understanding last time we touched bases on this subject).
I don't want to name any names (especially considering this is just a rumor) but I recently heard that some of the so-called supporters in OJP were planning on being "selfish" with their work & I'd just like to point out that that IS NOT what we are about here.
Individualism between mods is important but really big features such as the "custom weapons" concept, the "non-interferance code" concept, the "OJP: New Animations" concept & especially game bug fixes, etc; etc. should be included in all mods. There is a neverending limit to what can & will be implimented in the various mods & everyone will not agree on what they think should & should not be added to their individual mods. There is more than plenty of room for individualism & they alone will distinguish each mod, however, large features such as these should be permitted to be implimented in all OJP supported mods.
The bottom line here is if you are not willing to share your work with us, don't be surprised if we don't share our work with you.
That was my understanding also, Marker. Another thing is if you submit something to the OJP and then want to 'unsubmit' it, you cannot. This is in the readme, so be sure if you want to submit something.
This needs to be clarified. We allow leeches in OJP. Newbies are a very important part of the community and we can't restrict valuble modding resources from them. This is a pillar of OJP. I will not allow that to be changed.
This also applies to private projects. You can use the code for whatever you want if it's a private project.
However, if it's a public project (IE something that is released to the general public), we will be keeping an eye on you. If we feel that you're not contributing code for selfish reasons, we will pull your permission to use OJP code for public projects and get your files removed from file servers.
To me, the best part of OJP is communication - I haven't downloaded the source or uploaded anything, and I'm probably not going to.
However, it's good to read over the ideas discussed here (because they are presented in a much more Open and forward-thinking manner) because I can't simply think of everything.
And yes, leeches are welcome, not that I have seen much worth leeching.
As far as "leechers are welcome" goes, if someone doesnt have something to contribute then of course they should still be permitted to use the mod, it's ridiculous, but if they have something major like the Custom Firearm Weapons concept, the Non-Interferance Code concept, or the New Animations concept, or something similar, it's just too major of a thing to not share with everyone else. Again, there is plenty of room for individualism so please everyone, save that copout for someone who's neive enough to buy it.
After the whole ordeal with Lee (& some other ordeals against Chosen One) you can pretty much consider me the poster child of sharing with other developers. The only thing I don't plan on sharing is either stuff that doesn't belong to me & my custom avatar background for CM because when people see that background I want them to know that that's a CM product.
Also, the code is not the only thing people can "leech", there are a variety of other resources as well such as the new animations in the works, the various models & possibly even some sounds. Hell, I might even see if Lucasarts would be willing to contribute sounds to the effort.
you know i do models and to share the work on them dont happen very often, but i would like say what i think of shareing work.
i give everyone permission to use my work, in fact i am not getting angry if someone not asks or quote me. the reason i want to be asked or quoted is, if someone wants to take my models out of anothers map, i want him to sent me an email. i will always give him the ok and i can check she/he uses the newest version of the model. i just dont want they use buged versions of my models.
i know about coding this is more compicated, if someone uses your code it isnt that visible as if someone uses you model. but the motivation to keep control on your work is the same. we do it for the fun to see it in game, we want others to use it, we want it to work correct and honestly a bit we like the praise (but only a very very small bit).
to be asked for permission is not our right, its the others politeness to do so. if someone uses it without there is realy nothing we can do. on JK2files.com is still the >Jabba the Hutt< model, its my stollen >Hutt< model beta version, submitted by another under his name. i wrote about 100 emails that this is a stollen very buged version but its still there, now for over one year. it makes no sense to set restrictions if we cant enforce them.
sorry but i dont think its right to say:
The bottom line here is if you are not willing to share your work with us, don't be surprised if we don't share our work with you.
i allow everyone to use my work, also the one who dont allow me to use his work. because if he is so selfish, he will use my work without permission anyway. is my point of view, you know cathegoric imperativ.
Originally posted by Duncan_10158
to be asked for permission is not our right, its the others politeness to do so. if someone uses it without there is realy nothing we can do.Not true. ANYTHING you create, you own copyright on & can legally not allow others to use your work. Even if you changed someone elses work, you can not own copyright on the work but you *can* own copyright on your changes.
Realistically, OJP is not legal. It's not illegal but it's not legal either. OJP may have this "rule" that you can't remove your work from it but legally, you can. It would just be considered ridiculous since everyone knows what goes in OJP is not to be removed & if anyone pulled a stunt like that we'd all do everything within our power to give them hell. Maybe even get some of the file crews to not post their work in the future, who knows.Originally posted by Duncan_10158
on JK2files.com is still the >Jabba the Hutt< model, its my stollen >Hutt< model beta version, submitted by another under his name. i wrote about 100 emails that this is a stollen very buged version but its still there, now for over one year. it makes no sense to set restrictions if we cant enforce them.E-Mail ShroomDuck at shroomduck@jk2files.com (Site Administrator) & he will remove it. I used to work there, they'll remove it if you ask them too.
Worst case scenario, if they say no I'll personally go above them & just deal with the mirrors myself. Either way, the file should get removed without any hassle.Originally posted by Duncan_10158
sorry but i dont think its right to say:Okay, I don't think you did this on purpose but you said this wrong by saying "don't think it's right" because it implies that you are saying it's okay for others to use your work even if they don't allow you to use theirs. I don't think that's what you meant but I just wanted to point that out.Originally posted by Duncan_10158
i allow everyone to use my work, also the one who dont allow me to use his work. because if he is so selfish, he will use my work without permission anyway. is my point of view, you know cathegoric imperativ.I tried working out a few arrangements with Lee Oattes to use his work in my projects & he could use mine in his, he declined all offers even though we had previously already made an agreement. So I said fine, you use your work & I'll use mine, at this point he used my work without my permission (which included the website).
I raised hell about this with everyone that distributed the work that included mine because they *are* legally responsible for what they distribute. JK2Files.com even recieved a copy of a Notice which was for Lee Oattes after ignoring me when I tried to settle the matter out of court.
So anyways, all the files that contained my work that I can legally claim copyright on (in whole or in part) have been removed. The hilt pack that he uses to this day *is* my work in part but I'm not 100% sure I can claim copyright on it & I'm not willing to risk a lawsuit over that alone. I am now taking precautions for that in the future but the point is if it is your work then you own copyright on the material & therefore you have the power to not allow people to use or distribute it.
Since sites like JK2Files.com, pcgamemods, & JediKnight.net all make a profit from this (via the ads they post), they *can* be criminally charged for distributing infringed software. If you know what you are doing & they're not stupid, they'll remove the material as long as you can prove the work is your own; Especially a company like JK2Files.com who doesn't really make all that much money from what they do & any decent lawyer should be able to be granted damage fees which would just destroy the company altogether or you would become the new owner of the company. If they're smart, they'll realize it's just not worth the risk.
To All:
Please, don't go pissing and moaning about 'copyright' this and 'intellectual property' that.
This is the Internet - if you think you've got rights here, you're mistaken - you're going to have to fend for yourself, and there are plenty of unscrupulous people here.
Don't fling around the 'lawsuit' word at all - you need to have DAMAGE done to push a lawsuit, and I'll leave it at that.
The Point:
What we really need to realize here, is that **** happens, and sometimes it happens to us. Somebody may steal something from you, but they can't ever steal 'skill' or 'talent', so just let it slide, and count it as one of life's inevitable unpleasantries.
You believe what you want about the legitimacy on whether or not I *could* have sued or if other people can sue other people in similar cases. I spent a over a week with an attorney on this case & he was willing to play ball with little money down, that *should* tell you something; Especially considering this was a federal matter which is hella more expensive than a state case.
Anyways, I don't want to debate my personal case considering there are certain aspects of the whole ordeal that I don't want to be known publically because I don't want anyone who might steal my work in the future working the system on me. There are certain vulnerabilities to the matter but it's not in the direction your thinking it is. You can make just about anything into "damages" if you have a good attorney, with a case like this it wouldn't be hard at all.
I've gone over the copyright laws & how you would be able to catch people & all that crap so much it's not even funny. Take some advice, don't push your luck when it comes to this. Yes, a person can get away with it if the other person doesn't know what they are doing but if they do... lol, lets just say it's not worth it. U.S. Copyright laws apply in most countries & they are federal, not state - federal. HUGE difference, especially $$$-wise.
Anyways, just because of your initial reaction I highly doubt you will believe anything I've told you but woteva, at least you can't say you weren't pre-warned if you or someone you know are ever in this circumstance.
.... o .... k ....
back to the subject matter ....
I think the bottom line is, if you use OJP, you should at least be kind enough to share something that might be useful to the rest of the group.