I don't think this has been answered anywhere, and I shouldn't kid myself about getting an official answer, but what the heck...


Remember how you could actually "swim" in water in JK1 and Mysteries of the Sith? In Jedi Outcast you sort of "treaded water" which ended up looking like you were floating in space if the water was deep enough.

Whereas the swimmable areas in JK1 SP & MP were used for shortcuts (such as the underwater shortcuts in Canyon Oasis, Nar Shaddaa CTF or several of the MotS maps) or puzzles (that scary one where you had to get out of a maze without drowning), the water in JK2 was essentially just put there to 1) Slow you down. 2) stop your lightsaber from working (which I always thought was silly, regardless of what non-filmed deleted scene from Episode I TPM brought up this issue).

Will we see real swimmable water make a return in JA? Will it be added in a future patch or moddable?

I hope there's swimmable water in JA, even in multiplayer! And Lightsabers should work underwater - just imagine an underwater lightsaber duel! That would rock :D, especially in multiplayer... They could even make an area on hoth where you fall into a semi-frozen lake and the cold does damage so you need to get out quickly.

Swimmable water would be awsome and it would ad alot to gameplay.......but I could live with out it since it probably wont be in JA.


This brings up another Q.


Can speeder bikes hover over water?

You could use your lightsaber in water in JO MP..

I was not satisfied with either the JK or the JKII model of swimming / water-saber.

- I didn't like the water wade in JKII. Again, we are dealing in minutia, but I think that after the water hit a certain depth Kyle should have swam.

- Even before TPM's (in)famous cut scene, I didn't feel good attacking underwater with energy weapons in general, let alone a saber. I felt that to keep a saber ignited under water should require force power or that it should just go out, and you'd have to use a projectile weapon.

So I'm not sure what I want from JA in the water department ...:confused:

Mike

Is this scene on the DVD because I haven't seen it.

IIRC it isn't. The scene is mentioned in the EP1 novilization though.

I never liked the idea of a lightsaber and blasters working underwater. In JO you have rain fizzling off the blade, so what's going to happen when you stick it in a lake.

The swimming animations didn't really bother me, and frankly I could do without the swimming in general.

The scene was never filmed (although an early Episode I publicity still HINTED at the scene, but it also appeared to be a doctored pic), and is not part of the TPM DVD.

The scene appears in the TPM novelisation (IIRC) and some version of the screenplay.

It is also shown in a comic book version of Episode I (shows Obi-Wan cut his way out of a Federation ship and he falls into a puddle with his saber ignited... and it fizzles out, which is why he runs away from the STAP instead of fighting it, and Qui Gon has to save him... right after that part Qui Gon chides Obi-Wan for letting his saber get wet, and then the familiar scenes play on).

As far as getting sabers wet, Qui Gon and Obi-Wan's sabers obviously get wet in the scene where they swim down to Gungan city.

In AOTC there is an extended fight scene in the rain (and Obi-Wan's saber falls into puddles several times, yet continues to work).

There are several possible ways to deal with this:


1) Accept that the deleted scenes were not meant to have occured. Canon events in AOTC show that lightsabers are not affected by water in this way, and so we can ignore inconsistencies in the (lower canon) novelisation, screenplay and comics.

2) Accept that the deleted scenes DID take place, but could be explained away (assuming of course that sabers that are turned off have no problems, otherwise Qui Gon's saber would suffer similar damage after they swam to Gungan City):

A) Obi-Wan was using an inferior quality lightsaber, perhaps a "padawan's saber" that did not have a waterproofing mechanism. Or perhaps Qui Gon and Obi-Wan are "poor Jedi" who couldn't afford a better quality model.

B) The (unscene) scene of Obi-Wan's saber getting wet was due to some other type of malfunction. Ie it was in "quick standby sleep mode" or something and got wet, or it got mud jammed into it somehow, but was still salvagable so that he could fix it for the next scene where he uses it (when they leave the Bongo to enter Theed).

C) Non-water resistant Lightsabers were commonly used by the Jedi Order until sometime between this incident and the events of AOTC (ten years later) in which advancements occured in saber design to allow them to be water proof.

D) Jedi carry different types of lightsabers on different types of missions. Perhaps since Qui Gon and Obi-Wan didn't plan to land on the surface (they only planned to negotiate a settlement with the Trade Federation Viceroy on his ship) they didn't think to carry water proof sabers. One wonders of course why they would have different types of sabers (and what benefits a non water resistant one would have).

E) Somehow the (unscene) scene of Obi-Wan's saber getting wet was much more than the wetness that Obi-Wan's saber in AOTC got. I would wonder how this would have happened though...

F) Obi-Wan was using the Force in AOTC to keep the water off his lightsaber (doubtful, since he had to concentrate on his battle with Jango, and we never saw any evidence of a "force bubble" around the water, even when it rolled into puddles).

G) Perhaps sabers are water resistant only for a certain period of time while on. Perhaps Obi-Wan in AOTC's saber was not wet long enough to cause problems. Whereas his saber in TPM was wet a really really long time (not shown or accounted for in the film) making it short out.


Of course none of these seem to gel with the fact that your saber shorts out in JK2. Your saber is of recent design, Kyle has encountered water before, and he's built sabers before, so it stands to reason he'd know enough to make it waterproof.

Your saber really only "turns off" when in water in JK2 anyway, it doesn't require cleaning or make it unusable for any length of time.

These are sci fi weapons, I don't see any reason why they couldn't "stay hot" and glowing underwater. And a blaster bolt is different than a saber blade. The saber blade is a continuously generated thing, and the blaster bolt travels so fast and splashes on a wall so you won't notice it fizzling out.

The only other time this comes up is in "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" (the first SW EU novel written IIRC) where Luke's saber (the one he had in ANH) works just fine under water.

just one thing, in both jedi knight and jedi outcast i felt restricted in the water (more so in outcast). if a jedi can use the force to control his body and fly a couple stories into the air, wouldn't he have the agility of a dolphin in an environement with less effect of gravity and friction?

Yeah, the sabers being 'put out' underwater didn't sit well with me. Swimming with your saber ignited was fun, especially when those big red rish tried to get you. Or that tentacle thing in MOTS before you fight dark Mara.
:D

Thanks for the ramble, Kurgan ;) :D

Here's the link on that scene ... http://www.theforce.net/episode1/cutting_room/cutting_room_09.shtml)

What we can assume in JKII is that Kyle always remembers to power down his saber before entering the water.

I would almost like it if it stayed on underwater and there was a comment - I thought they shorted out under water? Yeah, in the old days, we have shielding now ... or something like that.

Mike

I hope we can actually swim this time around! Excellent question! As far as swimming and lightsabers go...well, to my understanding both blasters AND lightsabers shouldn't be workable in water (unless they are an underwater version of course).

Both blasters and lightsabers run off some sort of electric system, whether it be powercells or the like ( The lightsaber does have an energy source, as does the blaster, both of which are pure energy with probably some electricity involved). So using one would probably kill someone.

I really missed not being able to swim in Jedi Outcast. In both JK and MotS there were some decently designed underwater sections for exploration, some of which offered up secrets, or alternative avenues to gain access to other areas.

Now...with the increased number of locations available to explore in Jedi Academy, it would be a really sad oversight not to include some extensive watery locations to visit.

I really can't see why they would avoid underwater sections in the maps. I was really quite annoyed in Jedi Outcast when I fell into a body of 'water' (or whatever) from a small height and instantly died. In JK if you fell into water, you not only survived, but there was always a way out again. So in those terms, the level design was very forgiving, while also offering alternative paths to a destination.

It can't be that hard to include a proper swimming animation, either. Lots of other games do it (I actually really like the swimming animation in Rune, it was very well executed), and so it would be a welcome return if it appeared in JA.

As for lightsabers working under water, I really don't see a problem with it. If you can use a blow-torch underwater for cutting, then why not have such an advanced technology work without a problem? It just doesn't make sense to me at all.

So I vote for a return of water, of great underwater level design, and the ability to ignite your saber under water.

I always hated water in JK...because watermeant you had to kill some freaky creature, and in MOTS you had to get up close and personal with the saber. Getting up next to those things...[shudder].

The only "monsters" in JO water were swampies with big gunz, but buy that point they were no threat. ;)

I am sorta starnge, I know, but my only compiaint with JO water was the sorry animation and the occasional difficulty getting out of the water. :(

Originally posted by boinga1
I always hated water in JK...because watermeant you had to kill some freaky creature, and in MOTS you had to get up close and personal with the saber. Getting up next to those things...

I had no problem with 'monster' encounters in general, under water or otherwise, because they added some much-needed variety to the gameplay. It can get a bit boring just gunning or sabering humanoids with a variety of blasters.

In JK, the underwater creatures were not particularly exicting or well executed either. The Drugon (big red) and Water Cyc (jellyfish) were pretty pathetic, it has to be said. The Drugon didn't move very fast, and rarely moved, and the Water Cyc didn't move much at all, so it was basically no threat.

The Dianogas (tentacles) only showed up again in MotS, and were a welcome return, IMHO. At least they pursued you and posed some danger.

Rune had better watery creatures, IMHO. Electric eels, jellyfish that could 'sting' you, and a really big (and fast-swimming) fish that you had to avoid.

Anyway...the point about the saber is a valid one. There's no reason why a suitable underwater weapon should not be included - like a harpoon gun or something along those lines. I remember the underwater level in No One Lives Forever where you could spear frogmen to the walls with a harpoon gun. That just plain rocked.

All it needs is some extra effort, and a willingness to do it...

Ah well...maybe next time...

Originally posted by StormHammer
In JK, the underwater creatures were not particularly exicting or well executed either. The Drugon (big red) and Water Cyc (jellyfish) were pretty pathetic, it has to be said. The Drugon didn't move very fast, and rarely moved, and the Water Cyc didn't move much at all, so it was basically no threat.

The Dianogas (tentacles) only showed up again in MotS, and were a welcome return, IMHO. At least they pursued you and posed some danger.

The challenge against those *was* in using a saber-only. Using ranged weapons was too easy, as you say.

All it needs is some extra effort, and a willingness to do it...

Ah well...maybe next time... Agreed.

Mike