Sure, JA is EU but will it have stuff that goes against Lucas' words?

Stuff like Yuuzhan Vong, Palpatine being a clone, Palpatine's ressurection and stuff like that.

I hope not...

I actually hope so! They did it before, so they might as well do it again.

I'd love to see Mara again, I mean, now that Kyles teaching yet again, there might as well be mention of his old apprentice. Aside from that there really shouldn't be to much else. Maybe someone that looks remarkably like Corran Horn or Kyp Durron or blah blah in there, but not to much else. I hope we see Leia and Han!!!!

I also hope that the academy is done RIGHT. I'd like to have a duel against a rival apprentice or something, just for show and props, not actually to kill the guy. I'd like the option to train and gain instruction in between missions as well.

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Well Chewie is in it...isn't he supposed to be dead?

It has been confirmed that the "star wars kid" (the kid in that home video waving a mop handle like a saber) is going to have his own player model and a guest appearance in the game some where.

Originally posted by FK | unnamed
It has been confirmed that the "star wars kid" (the kid in that home video waving a mop handle like a saber) is going to have his own player model and a guest appearance in the game some where.

the star wars kid is my hero.

"Sure, JA is EU but will it have stuff that goes against Lucas' words?"

They do not go "against" Lucas' words. In fact, Lucas personally gives direction to many EU projects. SW: Bounty Hunter, Dark Empire, Tales of the Jedi, the New Jedi Order, he has reviewed and approved of ALL of these projects.

You guys need a lesson in "canon". And need to keep up on what Lucas actually does as well as what he "says". ;)

Jedi academy fits in perfectly with all the other books, novels and games. It's chronologically in the right place, references tons of material from other parts of the EU, and in turn is refereced by other sources. Kyle was most recently mentioned in the New Jedi Order book Remnant.

EU stuff in JK

Waladons
Noghiri
Mara Jade
Korriban
Golon Flechett Gun
Sithspit (the word)
Nar Shadda (Ultimate EU location)
The Jedi Academy on Yavin IV

Since I have some inside sources, there are many other EU locations that show up in Jedi Academy. One of them is prominently featured in the comic series Dark Empire II and Empire's End.

Ah yes, and one of JA's "main" players is a character from the Tales of the Jedi comic series.

That should be enough to whet your appetite without giving anything away. :cool:

So should I take that as a no? That is just something I heard. I'm not an expert on EU and don't claim to be.

To answer the origional poster's question, there will be TONS of EU stuff in Jedi Academy.

Tough beans eh? :rolleyes:

Oh, to answer your question, Chewie dies 20 years after ANH, the game is set 10 years after ROTJ. There's 3 years inbetween the OT, IIRC, so yeah, chronologically it works out fine.

...this doesn't make much sense to me. JA is part of the EU. I don't see why it would be a problem to make references to other EU material. The video games and books have always meshed together pretty well, because the developers do their research. Sure, there are small errors, but it's very vast and hard to find such small things.

That is like saying, "Is your fan fiction movie gonna be fan fiction?"

Originally posted by Anakin1607
To answer the origional poster's question, there will be TONS of EU stuff in Jedi Academy.

Tough beans eh? :rolleyes:

Oh, to answer your question, Chewie dies 20 years after ANH, the game is set 10 years after ROTJ. There's 3 years inbetween the OT, IIRC, so yeah, chronologically it works out fine.

Thanks a bunch for that.

What I meant was that "disturbing" kind of EU that actually goes against what Lucas said. Like rubbish such as Palpatine being a clone, Chewbacca dying and stuff.

I don't mind Mara Jade, Corran Horn, and more "cool & decent" EU

How is Chewbacca's death against Lucas? He had to approve it, you know.

Maybe not Chewbacca dying, then.

OK, maybe I'm wrong. I didn't know that Lucas approved of it. I thought that they just made some crap up and expect everyone to believe it.

My apologies everyone, case closed.

Keep in mind that if such radical EU references as the cloned Emperor Palpatine and Chewbacca's death were included, it would alienate many gamers who have never read the EU material. Raven wants everyone to enjoy JA, even those who've only seen the movies. Consequently, there won't be much direct reference to EU. There might be indirect references. (like having levels set in Onderon or Corellia) Personally, I don't believe that there ever was a cloned Emperor, there never was Yuzzan Vong, the Force is EVERYWHERE, and Chewie is still kickin'. Still, if you want to believe it, that's fine with me.

Well Chewie is in it...isn't he supposed to be dead

Chewie dies 20 years after ANH, the game is set 10 years after ROTJ. There's 3 years inbetween the OT, IIRC, so yeah, chronologically it works out fine.

Maybe while fighting along side him....he somehow dies :eek: and then Han, Leia, Mara, etc. come to the academy to reminis(spelling???) . This might be too much but you never know with that crazy EU...:rolleyes:

So when Luke dies when you play Jedi Outcast, does that means you don't meet him at the end of the game? ;)

If Chewie were to die during the mission, it'd be mission failure. Just like in JO.

I honestly think this is the most EU packed JK yet. I have some... interesting information about some of the characters and locations you visit.

Even if you've never heard of this one place midway through the game, you're going to LOVE it. It's a personal vacation retreat for one of the SW villians. :cool:

Well, according to official sources, everything with the Star Wars liscense on it other than the films themselves and the works based directly on them (ie: the film novelisations, the official screenplays, radio dramas) are a lower order of canon, which fans usually refer to as "quasi-canon" or "official."

There are parts of the EU that contradict the higher canon, and I'm not just talking about Infinities or "Star Wars Tales" which are considered "alternative what if scenarios" and not part of canon...

Of course EU purists will flame me and say that everything can be explained away, but honestly, there are contradictions.

What usually happens is that Lucas changes his mind about stuff and so the EU authors end up looking silly, so they write new books and retcon the old stuff.

Or they change Lucas's story and he just doesn't say anything (like bringing back Boba Fett in the post-ROTJ era).

Examples:

-Boba/Jango Fett's history
-Stormtroopers being clones descended from the Clonetroopers
-EU mentions prominent members of the Senate and Jedi Council we never see or hear of in the prequels
-Whether Yoda used a lightsaber
-the term "Dark Jedi"
-details about the Clone Wars and age of the Republic
-history of the Imperial Guardsmen
-lightsaber colors for Jedi/Sith
-whether or not lightsabers work in water
-Palpatine's "rapid aging" with the Darkside
-size and scope of the Republic/Empire
-size of various ships in the classic trilogy vs. the EU
-origins of the Death Star
-possibly some details about Jabba & the Hutts
-overall exploration and knowledge of the galaxy and surrounding galaxies (see Jedi Archives)
-the SSD Executor nearly bankrupting the Empire (a bad error in the EU, sorry I forget what book it's from)


Granted, some of the stuff might get ironed out in Episode III or any future special editions, but that's how it is now...

Generally, I think the games are considered the lowest rung on the ladder of overal official continuity (but some parts do crop up in other sources, as we've seen).

Um, actually, Lucas just confirmed one of those "points" you bring up about Storm Troopers. It's on Star Wars Hyperspace content. ;)

Same thing with the lightsaber comment. Sabers may short out in Episode I (deleted scene), but not in Episode III. That's all I'll say on that matter. ;)

Another thing the EU predicted before it actually happened. Just like the double bladed lightsaber. :cool:

There are some minor contradictions in the EU. But there are some in the films too. As I recall, it took the EU to explain the comment in Episode II where Palps says the Republic is a thousand years old, where as Obi Wan says the Jedi have served for more than a thousand generations. A generation is a lot long than a year don't you think

chewbacca is dead?
wtf?

some one needs to kick george lucas in the balls for that one.

Though I will try not to initiate another one of those extremely boring EU canon vs non-canon debates everyone is sick of, you have to keep in mind one thing.

The novels of the expanded universe, while being an official part of the Star Wars license, are NOT confirmed nor established to having had happened as far as the true story (The one in the movies) is concerned.

The EU has constantly been explained as not being completely canon both from the license holders and publishers to Lucas himself who says the EU is what he considers an alternate universe to his own. I know the EU enthutiasts will deny or debate this point (as has happened before) but I'm not making this up.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not criticizing nor speaking against the EU. Personally there are things I greatly like about the EU such as the Shadows of the Empire novel, the character of Thrawn and his tale (before he was cloned), I like the Solo children, Exar Kun to an extent and the world of Korriban. As many know the name Coruscant comes from the EU as it was originally called Had Abbadon as it woud have appeared in RotJ as originally planned. There are many things I do not like about the EU as well such as the extreme overuse of cloning of characters, planets like Corellia being moved by repulsor lifts (or something like that), Chewie dying and Boba living, and of course the Yuuzhan Vong and all associated with that.

My point is that the games can incorporate aspects, stories, characters or whatever from the EU but it doesn't mean they have to. Say the next Jedi Knight game (whatever it is) is set 25 years after RotJ, the game isn't obligated to follow or even acknowledge the events in the NJO books or any other book for that matter.

Since Ep.1, it is established the Republic is 1,000 years old, much contradicting things such as the Knights of the Old Republic series which is 4,000 years before Ep1 and refers to the very same Republic as the prequels. And as far as the Jedi being around for thousands of generations, nowhere has it been established that the Jedi and Republic were created simultaneously. We know the Jedi were the protectors of the Republic since its creation but EU aside the Jedi might have existed long before the Republic was ever thought of.

I hope supporters of the EU (especially NJO) are not too upset by what I've written here, it is not meant to demean or insult what you guys like. And I sincerely hope I don't start any kind heated discussion on this subject matter. The way I see the EU is not what did happen, but like Star Wars Infinities, is the way things might have happened. And the great thing about something like Star Wars is that each of can interpret the events however we choose to...well except the movies of course, we're all screwed if we don't like something there!!!

Um, actually, Lucas just confirmed one of those "points" you bring up about Storm Troopers. It's on Star Wars Hyperspace content.

My point was not that the EU was flawed and George Lucas's original vision and stories were not, or that the movies were perfect. Rather, it was that LucasFilm (and Lucas's) official "policy" with regards to overall StarWars continuity (canon) is that the FILMS (ie: Lucas's original stories) are THE definitive element for both the story, and to judge what else might happen.

So if the movies and the EU contradict each other, the movies are "right" in the sense of Lucas's story. That doesn't mean we can't enjoy the EU of course.

Yes, I'm well aware of the possible contradictions between the Classic Trilogy and the Prequels

One has to jump through hoops to explain Obi-Wan's "certain point of view" (sigh) statement about the "Thousand Generations in the Old Republic" maybe he meant some kind of Jedi Academy generations of students or generations of non-human Jedi? Or maybe he meant some OTHER Republic that he somehow confused? Or was Palpatine lying? Arggh. Anyway.

In the classic trilogy, the Stormtroopers, while having the same uniform, have distinctly different voices and even different heights (standing right next to each other). Hardly the kind of thing you'd expect from a new series of Jango clones. I guess either they've started taking recruits after the prequel era, they are using more than one clone template in the same division or else Lucas plans to re-edit the original movies to make them all look identical. Of course one wonders why he didn't do this from the start if he planned "all along" (as he claims in the AOTC DVD commentary) that they should be clones from the clone wars.

(I know he didn't have the CGI technology, but he could have chosen actors who were similar heights, used shoe lifts, camera angles, etc. and he could have just dubbed them all with the same voice, after all he dubbed Vader and Beru in, why would that be so hard to do?

I too love parts of the EU. It was Lucas's decision to run roughshod over parts of it when he made the Prequels. I think the problem was he didn't properly inform the EU writers beforehand when he was making "changes" to his story, since he does help them out when he's approving their stories.

But, the principle point of the EU is to make money and generate hype for the SW franchise, so if they happen to contradict Lucas's story after the fact, it's not something we the fans can do a whole lot about, since we don't set his policy. We can just like what we like...

At least it's not such a mess as Star Trek continuity, or Highlander... ; )

Hope that didn't sound like a rant, it wasn't meant to be!

I think that since the JK games are part of the EU, they more or less have to try to fit (reasonably) into the EU continuity, but I could be wrong.

If that policy affects novel & comic book writers, why wouldn't it affect game developers? I swore I read several instances when they made reference to LucasArts's watchful eye on the franchise.

Anyway, obviously the games can't be perfectly accurate (see accounts of the Classic trilogy events in Rebel Assault or Rogue Squadron games for example) since gameplay requires a certain amount of freedom.

But for example, if the next NJO novel has Kyle Katarn being killed off with no possible way to clone him, they can still make a new game about Kyle, simply by having it set BEFORE his supposed death in the books. There is nothing forcing the game developers to make every game take place "in the present" of the EU (ie: the latest book). Jedi Outcast obviously took place before the NJO, as does Jedi Academy.

Just a qestion...how does Palpatine's resurrection or the Vong go against the movies? :confused:

And about the point about 1000 generations maybe a 'generation' was supposed to mean a year in Episode IV. Or maybe Palpatine means the Republic stood 10000 years since the last war, or something. Or maybe Lucas doesn't really crae. :D


Personally, I don't really give a dang if the game goes along with EU or not. I'm still palying it. :D :D :D :D :D :D

Obviously there have been quite a few problems in maintaining the correct continuity when you write the final 3 movies first without giving much thought as to what happened before, and finally begin writing the prequels 20 years later. Still, most of the errors are forgivable and are not really that much of a big deal.

I do not believe though that the games are part of the EU, I agree they incorporate elements from the EU such as charcaters, worlds and even events, but they aren't necessarily following the history set in the EU. For example we know that in the EU, the Great Sith War against Exar Kun happened about 4,000 years before Ep1 and the Knights of the Old Republic game takes place about 30 years after that war but nowhere in the EU timeframe (at least to my knowledge) has it been established that the war or events in Knights actually happened.

In turn this is how I view the games. I know they incorporate things from the EU such as Luke's Academy on Yavin, Dash Rendar and the battle against Black Sun (though to my understanding the game came before the novel), etc. But I don't think the games have to follow the EU timeframe at all, they can if they want to but don't have to, that's how I see it.

About Palpatine's resurrection I can't answer for whoever made the original statement but I don't think it goes against the movies exactly but imo was in somewhat bad taste. Everyone keeps being freaking cloned in the EU; Palpatine, Thrawn, Luke, etc. Though the movies themselves opened the door to clones the clones in EP.2 have a very specific role and importance to the movie arc as a whole. The continuous cloning of villains or other charcaters just seems to me like they couldn't come up with anything better and to me is disappointing.

To avoid any scornful remarks I'll reserve commentary on the Vong. All I will say is that I agree not only that they contradict the precedent of the movies but are imo are completely outside the essence of Star Wars as a whole, patened Lucasbook license or not. But this is just my opinion.

Oh and I agree with you boinga; I'm playing JA also no matter if freaking Gungans and Ewoks burst onto the screen in a dance number together...then again...

Originally posted by Anakin1607
Chewie dies 20 years after ANH,
25 years, not 20.

Maybe it's Cheewbacca in JA then. ; )

J/k

hrm, for one part of the discussion, yes I'd like to see the Academy students mentioned in the books appearing in the game. Seeing as it's in the academy spawned by those books.

For the other topic discussed in here. I find that Lucas could be a tiny tad more conciderate with the EU in his movie. (par the NJO lol). Because if it weren't for Zahn writing the Thrawn Trilogy and then a new wave of Star Wars craze and loads of Star Wars books, comics and games. We might have possibly never have seen the new trilogy or even the special editions since it would have slipped out of popularity by 1997 then. So for keeping Star Wars popular I find that the EU at least deserves some credit and being taken into concideration. Rather than taking stabs at it by changing the origin of the Death Star and such.

When I see something like this - concern about EU in JA (or JO way back when), it really all comes back to one thing - the Vong and the NJO. Jedi Academy on Yavin - no prob, same for just about anything else we've seen or heard ... but the NJO / Vong are different - I hope we can avoid another debate here, but think we can all agree they are about the most divisive thing (more even than Jar Jar :eek: ) in the SW universe ...

Mike