ok ok, i know they've already finalized the powers, but say if they were to make an expansion, which powers would YOU like to see added to the force arsenal.

plz post your ideas :)

my favs are

- force destruction: this would have to be changed to not have a very big radius (probably about that of 2nd repeater fire) and would use up most of your force pool.

- force blinding: this power would be cool, however i must agree that it would be seldom used...

- reflect: i really like this power :D. while using this power no other powers may be used (no absorb no heal no nothin). The jedi raises his hand and creates a 180* arc infront of him where any dark energy is sent back in the direction of the caster. the more directly the jedi faces the sith, the more accurate the reflection is. also the more points on the skill the more accurate the reflection is.

obviously, to make this power fair even when maxed and directly facing the enemy the reflection is not always 100% accurate and probably not as powerful. i will give a silly model to demonstrate how in "force terms" it could be fair. just say full force pool = 5. and lightning = 1 per sec, and absorb = 1.5 or 2 per sec.
this way it is not possible for reflect to outshine lightning.

also, using reflect over absorb means that the jedi uses force at the expense of gaining it

tell me what you think of my ideas and let me see yours :) plz

I think they got pretty much everything useful. They added a bunch of cool but totally useless stuff to MotS for JK, like Projection and Farsight, but it wasn't ever used.

There is also the issue of having too many force powers, and not enough easily accesable keys to bind them to. If only we could use head sets for voice command over certain keys. :(

I'd prefer that they keep the number of force powers low and just have a number of uses for each of them...

Did you just say Force Telekinesis, Prime? That's what it sounded like to me anyways... :D

Ability to control objects in a grip-like fashion = kikazz.

Originally posted by Luc Solar
Did you just say Force Telekinesis, Prime? That's what it sounded like to me anyways... :D

Ability to control objects in a grip-like fashion = kikazz. I'd like to see something like that :) I would just like to see some force powers havemore applicable uses...

Telekinesis = throw = a cool dark power.

Sense - I am very hopeful that this will be like the Sense I've always wanted :)

Other than that, it is like I said in the other thread - give me the ability to use 'lower rank' powers, so you could have a 'light grip', for instance.

Mike

I'd like exactly what TXA said and like a force "crack", where you could shatter things.
:D

force destruction: this would have to be changed to not have a very big radius (probably about that of 2nd repeater fire) and would use up most of your force pool.

whoah whoah, that would be a complete waste, In JK you could use 2 force destructs with a big blast radius on each. If it was in it should probably be toned down a bit but not that much and not so much mana :p

I checked the faq real quick, but didn't see any description of Sense. What does this power do - are you able to see bad guys through walls at certain distances, so you know what's around the corner (there's something like that in MP isn't there?)? Do you just sense that a threat is near? Would is allow you to dodge sniper fire? Is it something that you turn on or something that you cast? Does anyone even know yet?

Originally posted by Reprehence
Does anyone even know yet?

Nope :p Well we don't know exactly what it does, but I believe it's used to see enemies trough walls, but I dunno for sure!!

i agree with prime that force telekinises would be a cool new NEUTRAL power. it'd be funky

sense sounds cool, but reflect and destruction would both be awesome aswell :cool:

Originally posted by Rockstar
i agree with prime that force telekinises would be a cool new NEUTRAL power. it'd be funky


It would be very interesting if powers could evolve in a new way, Neutral at first, then light/dark later. Grip, for instance. Also Telekinesis - move/float stuff at level one, then it becomes light/dark, with dark moving to 'throw', and light being block/move bigger stuff. I know it starts to get a bit RPG-ish, but it gets at the whole light/dark thing in a new way.

Mike

i've made my views clear on a lot of these threads before, but i would say:

in: destruction, reflect, sever, THROW (most important)

changed: speed and heal in SP so they don't make the game foolishly easy

tweaked: Light Side powers to make them more dynamic and focused in their defensive capabilities and less "press the button every few minutes"

Saber throw to make it less all encompassing

Important: Making the levels with force powers in mind (things to be pulled/pushed, levers, crates, walkways and chandeliers to be dropped on enemies and so on (rather than one or two OBVIOUS and out of place "puzzles" where they happen to work, but didn't before)

See Agent under fire for great examples of optional ways to get enemies (explodig barrels, remote control dropable crates, gas canisters, steam valves etc...)

Originally posted by toms
Important: Making the levels with force powers in mind (things to be pulled/pushed, levers, crates, walkways and chandeliers to be dropped on enemies and so on (rather than one or two OBVIOUS and out of place "puzzles" where they happen to work, but didn't before)

That's the challenge for gamemakers, now isn't it ... ?

I agree that there needs to be more consistency - not just in JA, but in FPS in general. Too many unopenable doors, some times you can break things down, but other times not (and they look the same). Really, if you make it so you can saber-throw to collapse a walkway (like Vader in RotJ), and then make it consistent so it can be done to ANY walkway, you need to make sure the player can keep things moving if they collapse ALL walkways across a chasm, for instance (perhaps have them say ... maybe I shouldn't have done that ... now I'll have to take the long way around, and HAVE a long-way around)

But it is quite a challenge - personally I'd like that challenge, as it adds strategy and replayability, but it also adds complexity, significant testing time, lengthens load times, and so on ...

Mike

I agree that heal in SP seemed something of a cheat. I guess it's an FPS though, so it doesn't need to be any different than being able to swallow some bacta while at the same time slicing up bad guys.

I would often use the cheat to set the heal back to level 1 just because it seemed to make more sense. I'd like to see a heal that maybe at level three you can move around and heal a very little bit or stop and heal more quickly using less mana than at level 1.

Regarding saber throw - I'd almost like it to be real enough that you're screwed if you collapse the wrong walkway and have to go back to a previous save. Make you think twice before slicing up the scenery for no reason. I also it would be good to have another way around as well some times though.

Originally posted by Reprehence
I would often use the cheat to set the heal back to level 1 just because it seemed to make more sense. I'd like to see a heal that maybe at level three you can move around and heal a very little bit or stop and heal more quickly using less mana than at level 1.

I'd like to see that formalized - I liked having to meditate. The GBA game 'New Droid Army' has Anakin fall to the floor to meditate to restore his health ... very nice how the droids keep attacking ;) I'd also like to see Bacta require you to 'holster' all weapons, and give health back slowly - again making you vulnerable. Much more difficult that way ...

Mike

i think that once you got the lightsaber you should lose bacta tanks, honestly i didn't know about them and still passed it on jedi knight first time through (coz i played the demo and the low diffs seemed boring) and the second time on JM, and it was still SO easy coz of heal...

but i must say i liked the power, i never used it mid battle even on level 3. and i think that you should NOT take it away from mp as the lightside would be utterly useless without its trademark power. i think that instead of nerking heal they should create lightsaber battles that are hard to SURVIVE so that even if you had full health before the battle, you would struggle to be the victor...

oh and toms, GREAT post above ;) i agree 100% with that :cool:

And wait, they finalized the Force powers? I know they announced some of them, I wasn't aware that was offically all of them.

Originally posted by Emon
And wait, they finalized the Force powers? I know they announced some of them, I wasn't aware that was offically all of them.

I think the assumption is that by now they have made final decisions about at least the powers if not also the levels of powers.

Mike

Originally posted by Emon
And wait, they finalized the Force powers? I know they announced some of them, I wasn't aware that was offically all of them.

ummm mate look at the introduction post which bases the topic of conversation first ;). cya man :)

Yeah, I saw what you wrote, I ask because you are far from the most credible source. Not your fault, of course. Link me to where LEC or Raven has said this, and I'll believe it.

Originally posted by Emon
Yeah, I saw what you wrote, I ask because you are far from the most credible source. Not your fault, of course. Link me to where LEC or Raven has said this, and I'll believe it.

umm man, i honestly don't know what you mean? i've made no claims or statements of any sort??

my original statement was saying that raven are closed for suggestions and have probably already finalized the force powers anyway, meaning that anything we discuss in here are just ideas we think are cool that we'd like to see implemented in the game, or put in an expansion if raven decided to bring out. i've made no claims at all?? my thread was hypothetical discussion?

sorry if i conflicted before with you :)

OK, guys.

I think that this is a simple misunderstanding. The title of the thread conflicts with the actual topic from the first post.

The title implied what you wanted in the game (i.e. based on JK/MotS/JO experience), whereas the topic post stated that JA was essentially 'closed', so what more would you want if you could have an expansion or whatever.

I think it is a fair assumption that the main force power decisions are long since done, but Raven is likely still tweaking (at least in MP) to balance things out. There wasn't a definitive statement made, just an assumption.

[ON TOPIC] What does everyone think about level design based on an assumption of force powers? Does it make things more interesting? Is it a cop-out? Or does it depend on the level;)

Mike

i'm not that keen on the way they upgraded certain powers in JO, JUST as you might need them to get through a certain puzzle. It came off as forced (no pun intended :D )

I'd much rather that, in general, the force powers were used for optional "cool" moves and ways of interacting with the environment to dispose of enemies...:D rather than your force push getting upgraded JUST as you happen to run into a crate that needs pushing. :mad:

However, if necessary they could have one or two forced upgrades of basic powers like jump and push and pull, just like they did in JK/MotS.

I wouldn't think it would be a good idea to have force destructible walkways that actuall PREVENT YOU FINISHING THE LEVEL. However making you take a long way round would be a good idea. JB:AUF had areas where you could take out barrels which would bring down the walkways that the baddies were standing on... this then meant you had to take the long way around.

My favorite bit was when you could use a remote gadget to set off a jet engine and literally blow away a group of bad guys... that is the sort of thing that should be ALL OVER a game with the force in it. Pull levers to drop crates, push switches to drop gates on people, throw the saber to drop chandeliers on people, pull a lever to fire an x-wing's engines at people, throw the saber to cut power cables and disable security turrets, loads of doors you can open with switches through windows... and so on...

-----------

HEALING: if force heal is in the SP game then i would also make you have to be stationary to use it. wish i had known about that cheat.

On the other hand, IF they do make force heal a stationary power then im fine with bacta, as it would be more useful than Force heal as you could use it anyway... but more limited in availability. If force heal is like it was in JO then there is no point to bacta at all... :(

Originally posted by toms

However, if necessary they could have one or two forced upgrades of basic powers like jump and push and pull, just like they did in JK/MotS.

I agree ... perfect balance, IMO - force things on you a bit more than JK so they can make a couple of basic assumptions, but not say 'you now must get jump3 as you'll be needing to make 80 foot jumps' ...

I wouldn't think it would be a good idea to have force destructible walkways that actuall PREVENT YOU FINISHING THE LEVEL. However making you take a long way round would be a good idea. JB:AUF had areas where you could take out barrels which would bring down the walkways that the baddies were standing on... this then meant you had to take the long way around.

I have no idea what JB:AUF is, but I agree. Check this out -

From GameSpy HL2 interview:
"Number one is that we have really strong feelings to make sure that the game isn't too hard for any skill level of player. We always want to make sure that there is a pathway for the absolute beginner and a way for that person to succeed. If we block the way for someone of that skill set we've failed as game designers. "

HEALING: if force heal is in the SP game then i would also make you have to be stationary to use it. wish i had known about that cheat.

On the other hand, IF they do make force heal a stationary power then im fine with bacta, as it would be more useful than Force heal as you could use it anyway... but more limited in availability. If force heal is like it was in JO then there is no point to bacta at all... :(

I don't want to cheat for it, perhaps it would be a part of higher difficaulties? At Jedi Master you can only heal while stationary, and bacta must be taken with weapons away. Lower level, more flexibility, until at 'Ewok' (or Jar Jar ;) ) level you can use everything during mid-battle.

Mike

i didn't cheat to lower my heal. i just used personal limitations to try and make the game some sort of challenge. the 2nd time thru i did on JM and limited myself too only push and heal, and never the other powers, and only ever used push when fighting enemies in multiple directions (not just shoving guys and cutting em while they're down). as for heal i just never healed in the middle of a battle (except the final battle), therefore i didn't need to level it down as i was using it the same way except it was faster on level 3 :)

sounds like they have finalised the powers... and there aren't really any exciting new ones... they have just implemented a lot of the MP ones in SP.

It would be cool if they changed things a bit based on the difficulty levels (heal and bacta being a good example). I alsways loved the way that in goldeneye you had many more sub objectives at higher difficulty levels.

JB:AUF - james bond, agent under fire. mentioned earlier. :D

Originally posted by toms
sounds like they have finalised the powers... and there aren't really any exciting new ones... they have just implemented a lot of the MP ones in SP.

It would be cool if they changed things a bit based on the difficulty levels (heal and bacta being a good example). I alsways loved the way that in goldeneye you had many more sub objectives at higher difficulty levels.

JB:AUF - james bond, agent under fire. mentioned earlier. :D

To me, getting the MP powers in SP is pretty exciting! Personally I like the Speed in SP about [quick calc] let's see ... [/quick calc] a billion times more than Speed in MP or from JK1. So if they do something similar with the other powers ... it will be pretty cool ...

(Thanks for the JB explanation :) )

Mike

Finalised powers or not, I would still like to do this...

http://www.worthplaying.com/press/103/av1-image296.jpg)

...in Jedi Academy.

That pic is from Advent Rising, BTW, where you get psychic abilities, including levitation. It's due out next year.

I heard about some type of levitate for JA, it may be throw. I figure something like the manipulator gun from HL2 would be possible. GHOUL2 allows for the physics on bodies.

Originally posted by StormHammer
Finalised powers or not, I would still like to do this...

...in Jedi Academy.

That pic is from Advent Rising, BTW, where you get psychic abilities, including levitation. It's due out next year.

Absolutely! Who wouldn't?!?!?!?!?! :confused:

I don't think we will ... but I hope we get something like it. I would love to see Dark Throw and Light Levitate - dark throws smaller objects for damage, blockable by timed push like missles in JO. Light moves big things, maybe holds up collapsing towers ... no damage.

Mike

:p Haha! That's great, Stormhammer!

lmao, yes that would be awesome stormhammer :D

I was thinking about Speed and I thought that a counter for it could be "Slow" (or "Hinder"). Since self-awareness and defense are a Light side thing, Speed should be Light, and Slow should be Dark, since it's quite a Dark thing to try to cripple your enemy.

Slow could work by using the Force to make the air around a subject more dense, and/or with a Mind Trick to slow them down inside their brain. Obviously to protect this from spammers, the duration should be very short (at most 1 second) and use all your Force pool. Maybe there's no real way to implement this fairly, so that's probably why it's not in the games.

We never see a Dark Jedi use Speed in the movies, suggesting to me that Dark Jedi consider it weak or cowardly. Just a thought.

Also, Mind Trick should be a Dark power since that's deception and mistruth. To counter, Sense/Sight should be a Light power.

I was playing Neverwinter Nights and there's a spell that makes an area pitch black for a duration. That might be cool if the effect last a minute in a certain radius and you could have dark duels. The sabers would make it look cool. And if you were walking down a hallway and it suddenly got quite dark, you would know you were in for it.

To counter "Darkness/Shroud", and I'll borrow an idea from these forums if I haven't already above, is "Blind" which works be turning the Light Jedi into a really bright light. If they are inside a shroud of Darkness, then the effect cancels out, and if not, the light increases such that anyone who sees it is blinded for a few seconds.

I strongly agree with anyone who would like more telekinetic interaction with objects in the game. That would be so sweet.

Originally posted by praenuntius
I was thinking about Speed and I thought that a counter for it could be "Slow" (or "Hinder"). Since self-awareness and defense are a Light side thing, Speed should be Light, and Slow should be Dark, since it's quite a Dark thing to try to cripple your enemy.

Also, Mind Trick should be a Dark power since that's deception and mistruth. To counter, Sense/Sight should be a Light power.

I strongly agree with anyone who would like more telekinetic interaction with objects in the game. That would be so sweet.

I think that the idea for 'Slow' is a cool idea, since a Dark Jedi would want to slow you so they can better position to torture and kill you.

I think Mind Trick is a neutral power - however I think that the 'persuasion' (to make yourself invisible) is light side, whereas 'control' (like level 3 from JO) is dark, since you are sending people to die for you.

Mike

Originally posted by txa1265
I think Mind Trick is a neutral power - however I think that the 'persuasion' (to make yourself invisible) is light side, whereas 'control' (like level 3 from JO) is dark, since you are sending people to die for you.

Mike

sorry man i have to disagree... mindtrick should be light as it manipulates your enemies so that you don't have to hurt them.
why would a dark jedi use it when instead he could lightning strike em down

Originally posted by Rockstar
sorry man i have to disagree... mindtrick should be light as it manipulates your enemies so that you don't have to hurt them.
why would a dark jedi use it when instead he could lightning strike em down

That's why I called it initially neutral, but later light or dark.

Neutral is simple distraction. Light you avoid hurting them, Dark you make them your pawn to fight to the death for you, and if they survive they come to you so you can kill them painfully.

Mike

Sorry to bump....but this seemed a good thread for a Force Power idea.

How about if Mind Trick, in Team games, would (as opposed to making you invisible) let you appear to be on the other team? It'd be a coolre effect, at least, but probably no more effective. (what I mean, if you don't get it, is that a guy using the luke model runs p to you as a red player, uses mind trick, and suddenly he has on the blue skin).

I actually like that idea, being able to run into a base without being detected unless they recognized the skin/username.

I think it would be good, especially if this was on up until you actually captured the flag.

Originally posted by boinga1
How about if Mind Trick, in Team games, would (as opposed to making you invisible) let you appear to be on the other team? It'd be a coolre effect, at least, but probably no more effective. (what I mean, if you don't get it, is that a guy using the luke model runs p to you as a red player, uses mind trick, and suddenly he has on the blue skin).

i like that idea too. good thinking man. :cool:

Umm... am i the only person here who is a tad peeved at the fact that they have only added in a couple of new powers? they say that there are heaps of new powers, but seriously, how silly too just call the mp powers in the new game new?

i think they could have fixed up the balancing so much better with new powers, and also avoided much of the (too much like JO criticism). i personally find it hard to counter the arguement of the lack of new force powers... seriously, its almost kinda like a 'cut corner'.... and we're still gonna probably have a light side of the force that is utterly useless for duels i bet... :(

Yeah I expected more new powers too :( In fact, they've only tweaked the existing powers, cause the JO MP powers in JA SP are no NEW powers, and force sight sounds like force seeing to me :rolleyes:

But aside from Dark Throw/Light Telekinesis, I don't really have anything else I was looking for in terms of new powers.

Seriously - my main gripe was lack of any 'Sense', which should be a given force power ... Kyle said I have a bad feeling about this, but should have been able to do that without physical seeing.

What I had wished for was an overhaul of the system - manipulating the level of power and force cost and making it more of a choice - especially things like mind trick ... I just want Persuade so I could be more stealthy. And things like that - using light side grip level 1 for SP when you are a level 3 Jedi, the cost of force energy would be like nil.

Mike

Oooh! Ooooh! I got it-
Force Sense: Shows an effect like "Spider-sense"!
Level 1: Sense comes 2 seconds before ambush.
Level 2: Sense comes 5 seconds before ambush.
Level 3: Jedi will say "I have a bad feeling about this" 8 seconds before ambush.