IF u don't remember me i use to post alot till E3 then i just kind of dropped out of the jk ja for a while, so has nething happened since then that is major?
Well........ not much. Just general bitching, basically. Think of the time, back just before JO came out, that’s what its like. The "I want this", "no you can’t do anything about that". "I liked this in this game", "I hope they do that". And the whole "balance" BS rules in almost every post. Just a bunch of BS. BUT! I come back to read every day! I might miss something important!
Very few intelligent posts. Like mine, its dumb, it’s bitching about the bitching. Damnit! I wish people like me would stop being so damn negative.
Originally posted by TheBlueFlamingo
Damnit! I wish people like me would stop being so damn negative.
Ah yes! Now THAT'S something I agree with you about :D :p
Originally posted by TheBlueFlamingo
Well........ not much. Just general bitching, basically. Think of the time, back just before JO came out, that?s what its like. The "I want this", "no you can?t do anything about that". "I liked this in this game", "I hope they do that". And the whole "balance" BS rules in almost every post. Just a bunch of BS. BUT! I come back to read every day! I might miss something important!
Very few intelligent posts. Like mine, its dumb, it?s bitching about the bitching. Damnit! I wish people like me would stop being so damn negative.
The worst thing (for me) is how the tenor on these threads has become so generally negative and cynical. It seems an underlying assumption that JKII totally sucked, and that JK1/MotS are some mystical gods to be worshipped and never criticised - boy how times change!
I guess I was blinded by anticipation of JKII not to have seen the BS so much last time. It is hard for me to see how any of these people could even envision liking JA when it comes out ...
Mike
Originally posted by txa1265
The worst thing (for me) is how the tenor on these threads has become so generally negative and cynical. It seems an underlying assumption that JKII totally sucked, and that JK1/MotS are some mystical gods to be worshipped and never criticised - boy how times change!
I guess I was blinded by anticipation of JKII not to have seen the BS so much last time. It is hard for me to see how any of these people could even envision liking JA when it comes out ...
hey... you just summed up my views perfectly... nice one... :D
Originally posted by toms
hey... you just summed up my views perfectly... nice one... :D
Yes I know.
I just don't understand ... what perverse pleasure is there in ripping apart a community? You don't like JKII, haven't played in months and don't plan to play again? Leave. You find out about JA and after seeing and hearing some stuff, decide you won't like it, probably won't buy it or even play it (so many of the whiners and anti JKII/JA folks here these days talk just like the piracy-apologists, I wouldn't be surprised ...) - again, just leave.
If you are here for constructive and productive discussion (which doesn't mean agreeing with me, BTW), fine. Let's have those discussions. But if you really, really hated JKII, realize that the same developers are making JA, and using the JKII gameplay and technology as a base ...
Mike
txa1265, I disagree with your assessment of the makeup of this community. Most of the posts I see regarding the franchise amount to circle-jerks from people who might very well buy Simon Jeffries' poo in a Star Wars box if it said Jedi Crapcast on the label. That is too be expected, of course, since this is primarily a fan site.
Most of the people whom you assert are omnipresent here and are "ripping apart" the community (many long-time forum goers and Dark Forces fans), did already leave out of digust and severe disappointment. I see a few straggelers that invested much time and love into the DF Series (once upon a time) that remain to criticize what they undoubately see as a wrong turn for this franchise.
Also, I think your implication of posts critical of JO, Raven, LEC and JA as being generally non-constructive or unproductive is greatly exaggerated. Might I suggest growing a thicker internet skin for the unabashed opinions it encourages? Really, if naysayers' opinions were so harmful to the community here you'd think the mods would do something about it. You say you want constructive discussions of game critisizms, but to me your entire posts reeks of a 'With us or against us' mentality.
Insulting Outcast is a very ignorant statement, as besides its faults (which all games have) JO gave you so much freedom with the saber, especially in comparrison to JK, which since getting Outcast I have played only about 3 times.
JO had problems, and God knows the persistent and intense complaints about these problems means Raven has taken notice of them, these people are professional developers, they know what people want and they give it to people, I remember when people were begging for dual lightsabers, and Sabre staffs, and what did Raven create for a new game? Saber Staffs and dual lightsabers, I think we can safely assume from this that Raven will not allow the complaints of JO to be implemented into JA.
However that doesn't mean JA will not have any of its own problems, but I'm sure after experience Raven will ensure those will be minimum, remember these people cannot afford to screw up or their professional reputation is at stake.
txa1265, you think just like me.....when ppl know a new game will comme they all go like <<oh i hope they will coorect this and that and this and that>>,i mean when they see sumting better they whine bout the old exemple: oh the jo saber didnt look like in the movies, Dark Forces sabers looked alot like them.... all they do is criticize the present and say the past was better....like when they play theyr amazed but when sumting better reveals they just criticize it and whine....
anyway i hope you get my point , its hard to explain what i mean but i did what i could..
Originally posted by Sargasso
txa1265, I disagree with your assessment of the makeup of this community. Most of the posts I see regarding the franchise amount to circle-jerks from people who might very well buy Simon Jeffries' poo in a Star Wars box if it said Jedi Crapcast on the label. That is too be expected, of course, since this is primarily a fan site.
Most of the people whom you assert are omnipresent here and are "ripping apart" the community (many long-time forum goers and Dark Forces fans), did already leave out of digust and severe disappointment. I see a few straggelers that invested much time and love into the DF Series (once upon a time) that remain to criticize what they undoubately see as a wrong turn for this franchise.
Also, I think your implication of posts critical of JO, Raven, LEC and JA as being generally non-constructive or unproductive is greatly exaggerated. Might I suggest growing a thicker internet skin for the unabashed opinions it encourages? Really, if naysayers' opinions were so harmful to the community here you'd think the mods would do something about it. You say you want constructive discussions of game critisizms, but to me your entire posts reeks of a 'With us or against us' mentality.
Damn fine and well thought out and constructed point! And well taken!
I do disagree with some of it, of course :)
In particular, I think that there have been many good discussions that have had little positive about Raven/LEC.
I think the 'how can raven avoid screwing up...' and 'manual / auto blocking', and even some of the 'fantasy version' have been good ideas.
As a slight retort, many of your posts reek of 'anyone who likes JKII is some sort of kneepad wearing lemming', which is what your first paragraph seems to assert.
Two last thoughts: first, regarding 'internet skin', to me that is as regards personal attachment to ideas, in other words people who get all upset if an idea is challenged or someone says something they don't like. My 'net skin - going back to 300-baud BBS days on an Apple ][ - is pretty thick. Many of the posts I complain about I see as truly unproductive - in this I refer to posts on constructive idea threads that go like 'to Raven: ask youself, are we going to write another star wars game? Repeat until the answer is NO'. or whatever.
And Last, let's keep the constructive talk going - we may not agree, and neither of us (any of us) may influence the game, but we all learn through discourse.
Mike
Simon Jeffries' poo in a Star Wars box
Shall we start the bidding at, say, $750?
To me, the main point of this forum is to get an idea of what other people want in Jedi Academy, and to let them know what I want. Sure, most of it won't ever get used by developers or modders, but this forum offers many different perspectives on the topic of JA (okay, sometimes not on topic). I've havn't been here long, but I've read some good ideas, some bad ones, and a few really interesting ones. I don't find the mood of this forum to be unusually cynical, though it is sometimes a tad biased, but that's fine by me.
What the.... I think I might have detected a sense of humour....
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
Shall we start the bidding at, say, $750?
Sold!
Now that you've bought the regular version, could we interest you in the deluxe collectors edition of Jedi Crapcast? The collector's edition adds corn and spinach from Simon's recent party celebrating his raise at LEC. All this packaged in a limited edition tin with liftable seat! (hey, it eased packaging costs).
if you are wondering why so many people are being so critical about the upcoming JA it is for a few reasons
When JK and MOTS came out they were games that lucas arts were heavily inspired to make and endelved to make as close to the movies as possible. Now (like all game companies when they get big), they just try and overflow things with features at the expense of realism just for the income, and as a result the game's overall "feel" may not be the SW atmosphere people want
an example of a company that did this was capcom. they released the original Resident Evil. it was great. they put as much into it as they could, and did the same for the sequel. then it started to become like they were just churning out the RE games for the hell of it now, (which they are, they just want profit). theres like 11 now, and only 4 of them are actually geniuine to the story line, the rest are almost just B-side crap.
this is the same feel i am hinting from the gamers on this board. i don't think they want everyone running around with a light staff, as it is not like in the movies (where only ONE person ever has used one and it was original.... when you have a server of 20 people ALL using one, its hardly original)
most of what i've said here isn't my actual opinion of JA. im looking foward to its release, but like many on this board i can't help but feel skeptical of how "loyal" and balanced the game will be :(
I agree that tends to be a problem. Capcom isn't a good example though, they were still riding the street fighter series when RE1 came out, so it's not like they were the little fish in a big pond.
Games like that don't balance SW style with good gameplay mechanics (like Force Commander, IMO). They are just games for games' sake, and don't portray the Star Wars universe with as much appeal to SW fans, and as such, should be avoided by LEC and left to companies that have less of a fan base depending on continuing quality.
That's what I think, anyway.
Why was JK more StarWars than JO??? I think JO captured a real starwars feel, although it could've been more 'immersive' at some points, for example bespin, it wasn't big, there were no civilians...
But JK didn't feel too starwarsy to me...
I found the entire series - DF, JK, MotS and JO - more or less equal in the 'StarWarsyness' department. They all force you to cast aside much of what you know from the movies, but JK did force the light/dark thing, while JO said Kyle was light but still had dark powers from his troubled days. MotS allowed Mara & Kyle a free mix, which I didn't like. Personally, I compare the combat in JO much more with AotC than I would JK. Both saber-saber and gun-saber.
Mike
This reminds me a lot of the Heroes of Might and Magic forum. People who so much liked HOMM3 split into two sides after trying HOMM4. Now some guys want HOMM5 (if ever) to be like the 3rd installment, while some want a better HOMM4.
You can't please everybody. I have very much enjoyed JO single player. I didn't get how to use the saber at that time, but I used it about 99% of the time when I got it. Afterwards I fired up MP and played vs bots, now I get the idea of saber fights. I believe they could be better with Oni-like properties, so JO is not perfect. But if JA has at least as fun gameplay as JO it will be a great game in my opinion.
JO SP is the game I have to thank for one of my best moments in gaming - the part where you have to retrieve your saber using the force:)
Originally posted by gedassan
JO SP is the game I have to thank for one of my best moments in gaming - the part where you have to retrieve your saber using the force:)
Haha yes, I found the trials to be one of the best levels in JO - if not in any game!! Getting the saber was really tricky, but when you got it, it really felt like an achievement :) I hope JA begins with trials too, where you have to get your saber :)
i think my attitude to posting is somehitng like this...
I LOVED JK and MotS (in my top 5 games of all time), so i couldn't wait for Obi-Wan, all these amazing features promised, great graphics, great saber combat etc...
All us old JK fans hung around in the forums, the devs even posted occasionally and seemed to be listening. Then features got dropped, then the game got dropped. I was disappointed :(
But a few days later they announced Raven (well respected developer) had been brought in to make JK2 (wow! even more excited than about ob1 :) ) so i came over here and joined the forums.
Again, we had a great time, everything looked good. Raven seemed to listen, we came up with some great ideas (even though we knew raven probably wouldn't use any of them). Then I went travelling around the world, but i still kept track of progress on the message boards occasionally. Then (very quickly) it was out! yay! Initial reviews were 95% yay! so when i got back (broke) i started saving and a month or two later it was mine! yay! :D
First few levels sucked, just like the reviews said. Then i got the saber and it was cool. For a while. THen it got boring. Then i just wanted to finish so i could start playing something else. :(
Maybe it just couldn't live up to the coolness of JK, or maybe they did it too quick to cover for OB1, but it was soo disappointing...
So i come here, I hear about JA and i think.....
Maybe i can make a difference THIS time. Maybe just one comment i make will be taken on board and will make JA what i wanted JO to be.
I don't have high hopes, but you never know. I will almost certainly buy it, but i am getting increasingly worried by the hints coming out htat Raven think JO was so good they just have to add some stuff, rather than fix it.
But i will stay i guess.... and try to make it as good as it can be...
Originally posted by toms
i think my attitude to posting is somehitng like this...
I LOVED JK and MotS (in my top 5 games of all time), so i couldn't wait for Obi-Wan, all these amazing features promised, great graphics, great saber combat etc...
All us old JK fans hung around in the forums, the devs even posted occasionally and seemed to be listening. Then features got dropped, then the game got dropped. I was disappointed :(
...
First few levels sucked, just like the reviews said. Then i got the saber and it was cool. For a while. THen it got boring. Then i just wanted to finish so i could start playing something else. :(
I STILL have my ObiWan preview video around ... sure it looks lousy now but boy I wanted it!
It is surprising that we agree so much on JK / MotS, and on the ObiWan anticipation, yet disagree so much on JKII.
Before JKII came out, I played DF (many months before), then JK / MotS, then was playing DF some more when I got JKII. So to me, the first few levels felt like hommage - and I remember seeing that in some reviews and thinking 'exactly how I feel' (btw I don't remember any reviews saying the first few levels sucked, many said they were slow, and a few said they were getting bored just before the saber came along).
Another thing - if everyone liked the same game there wouldn't be genres and subgenres and cross-genre games.
I just replayed JK/MotS, and I know this is blasphemy, but the games aren't perfect. There are areas that are contrived and long for their own sake. The gameplay is terribly unbalanced in SP against the saber, and many of the Force powers are useless, and the 'mana' regenerates way too slowly to make 'strong' powers worth the price. But you know what - I still love those games! And I'm on the 'blood moon' in DF playing on my Mac ('enhanced' resolution) again ... still love that game too ...
Mike
Before JKII came out, I played DF (many months before), then JK / MotS, then was playing DF some more when I got JKII.
So you didn't any of these games when they were first released and only within a year before JO?
Originally posted by Sargasso
So you didn't any of these games when they were first released and only within a year before JO?
Oh no ... I have the ol' DOS version of DF from ~95. But I missed the initial release of JK (having kids) and got JK/MotS as a pack in ~1999. I was just *replaying* them ... yet again ... good games are worth replaying (unlike games like Postal 2, RtCW and so on ...)
Mike
I never played DF, but liked the first levels too. I fired JO up and was dissapointed that I didn't have my lightsaber. A lot of ppl then just run jk2mp.exe so they can have their lightsaber, but I just moved on and it was great :) Sure there were some lousy puzzles, but it's great to use the guns for a while too :)
In the first levels you are forced to use the gun and I like that, you'll get to use the lightsaber enough later on in the game :) Nar Shaddaa was another level that made you use guns and even though I thought Nar Shaddaa was poorly implemented in JO, I think that's a good thing :) You don't have that arsenal of guns for nothing you know...
Originally posted by HertogJan
I never played DF, but liked the first levels too. That said ... I'm glad you get the saber right away in JA. Sure you get guns, but I'm glad the plot allows you to have some abilities to start.
Mike
hey! we're all friends again ;)
i wonder if you will be replaying JO in 5 years time? it will be interesting to see...
maybe i should try playing it again, it might have grown on me :D
the conc is in!!! (i think that might be new, but even if it isn't it is cool :D :D :D )
Originally posted by toms
[B]i wonder if you will be replaying JO in 5 years time? it will be interesting to see...
[B]
It will be interesting ... ~15 months after I got it I still play it regularly with enthusiasm! What will I think of it in 2008? Chances are that the saber combat I love dearly now will have been outmoded by something new, so I'll probably look on that like I did JK when I just played it - as outmoded. But what about the rest of the game - if I diminish the joy of the saber and force powers, will the rest of the game just slide into a pit of sludge? Time will tell ...
Mike
Originally posted by txa1265
It will be interesting ... ~15 months after I got it I still play it regularly with enthusiasm! What will I think of it in 2008? Chances are that the saber combat I love dearly now will have been outmoded by something new, so I'll probably look on that like I did JK when I just played it - as outmoded. But what about the rest of the game - if I diminish the joy of the saber and force powers, will the rest of the game just slide into a pit of sludge? Time will tell ...
Mike
Hehe, I've played trough JO for 5 times now I think :) Only Deus Ex I've played trough more, but I've had that game for a longer period of time of course :)
And in 2008, I dunno, I'll be playing JA then I think ;)
Originally posted by Sargasso
I think this poll is relevent to this thread.
http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103211)
Perhaps ... I think that so long as we try to be respectful and constructive, there should be no problems. I think the reason for a community is for all of us to share and learn. Without dissenting views we cannot expand our own vision.
Mike