now how nice would this be, able to play ff bgj like it was meant to be.
however, because of the slower game than jk, the splash damage radius would really have to be smaller. But wouldn't this force power be nice.
yes it would be nice, its my fave force power to date, but some peeps say it sux for mp, i never played original mp fro jk, so i would not know, but i could emagin so
Destruct was nice, one hot ball of pure hatred :D MWUAHAHAHAAAA!! I think it can be a valuable addition to the darkside, since it's different than lightning; another damaging darkside power. If lightning is changed to a single, pretty hard to aim but powerfull beam, I think Destruction can be a quite nice addition to the dark side arsenal :D
If they added it, they should make it more like what Jerec did to Kyle on that platform. That's pretty much what destruction was supposed to be, but they lacked good technology to make it look good in 1997 (even though mods and PCs later could do it).
Ya, the speed in jk3 prolly won't be as fast as the speed in jk1. THe splash radius is far too large for jk3, if they did use destruct.
i can't remember that cutscene too well, but it did look pretty cool. More of a Dragonball Z style attack if i remember rightly, built up a glowing ball in his hand then released more of a beam of hatred than a ball. of course my memory might be playing tricks.
It occurs to me that, instead of making it a yellow ball, this might be a good use for that warping effect they showed in the screenshot.... a big beam/ball of warped reality might be a great way of representing hatred. (a better use for it than push anyway :D )
It would be nice to have the ability to "charge it up", and also if it sent any clutter along it's path flying away. Maybe even the possibility of buring yourself out if you overcharge it.
I dont fancy Destruction to be honest... and like someonepoitned out... DBZ style... errr i dont really think it has it's place here.
Besides... I dont really know what Jerec shoots from his hands... in the initial cutscene it paralyses Rahn... on the platform it's like push and in the game ... it's a ball that mostly does splash damage.
If it was in the game it wouldnt ruin it for me... but i'd rather see other stuff instead. Just my two cents ;)
I think destruction would be good to bring back for a laugh (there's nothing funnier than sending a blast into a bunch of stormtroopers and watching them fly).
However - force lightning in JKII was far more powerful when used by Desann in SP, so I think if destruction was brought back for the new game, the new boss would favor it and would probably be a lot more powerful when using it.
So I haven't quite decided yet....
the more i think about it, the more i want it, but as a big blast of transparent "warping"... it would be like a full on kinetic blast, knocking everything out of its path.... a kind of super powered force push that was powerful enough to do damage.
If raven wanted to bring back this force power,they should remember that balance is what is needed.Make it strong,but not to strong,countable,but not always,etc etc etc.
Also,I didn't pay that much attention to the cutscenes...didn't notice what Jerec used both on Rahn and Kyle.
Yep, that's one of the most fun F-Powers of all time...:D
Well, I did pay attention to the cut-scenes in the first Jedi Knight game. What I have to say is that, in the cut-scene of Rahn's demise, Jerec used a kind of "force severance". This means that he severed Rhan's connection to the Force causing his loss of mobility. On the other hand, on the cut-scene that appears after defeating Maw, Jerec just simply pushes Kyle into the cargo ship as well as the whole docking assembly. Force Destruction was never performed during a cut-scene except in Mysteries of the Sith when Mara Jade encounters Kyle in the Sith Temple. However, all Mysteries of the Sith cut-scenes were in-game graphics video clips so a "real-life-movie-rendition" of this particular force power was never shown. So Force Destruction is still basically a ball of dark energy. Just thought I should clear that up.
-Vitruvio
P.S.: If you take too long trying to defeat Jeric in single player, he uses the "Severance" power against you thus making you share Rahn's fate.... Destruction and Severance are not the same power.
severance should be in!!!! possibly as a lightside power though.
I don't get why Lucasarts even took it out of JO in the first place.
Severance in JK?? What do you mean?? I don't know that power, did you make it up?? :confused: :p
ya, I never heard about a Force Severance, I supposed that was just another form of destruct that immoblized Rhan. :confused:
i dont think it was ever a power you could use... but it would make a good lightside power for all those who wanted more offensive lightside powers... not exactly offensive, but at least it affects the target rather than you. :band:
Destruct originally did about 60 to 70 damage to health alone by passing shields. The splash damage radius was about 3 times the radius of the splash damage of the secondary of the imperial repeater. Furthermore, it used about 50% of your total force. It was a fast moving projectile also. Therefore, it was far too powerful for jk2 because jk2 is much less fast paced. Even with strafe jump and speed (add rage if you wish), you couldn’t move at the speed of strafe run with speed in jk1. And the force consumption of jump and speed was much higher making the game less vertical combat based than jk1. So it would be hard to dodge destruction and most likely one would die fast. Furthermore, destruction doesn’t really keep up with the star wars theme. Although I like it because it took skill to use and time the surge, I agree that for jk2, it would not have been a good force power unless severely modified. If it is in jk3 which I doubt, I would wish the damage level to be kept the same. However, the splash radius must be reduced to about the radius of a repeater or slightly smaller than that. The original sphere of damage was about as large as a fully charged electromagnetic destructor weapon ( I can’t remember what it is called exactly the #7 gun). Another option is to keep the splash damage sphere large but reduce the damage to about 30 to 40 direct to health. Since the game looks faster paced than jk2, who knows what can happen.
Everything I mentioned I apply to multiplayer. If available it should be limited to multiplayer (or vice versa single player).
Originally posted by HertogJan
Severance in JK?? What do you mean?? I don't know that power, did you make it up?? :confused: :p
I only used the word "severance" to explain how Jerec immobilized Rahn. Somehow Jerec severed Rahn's connection to the Force, with that ball of light, causing him to be paralyzed. I don't know what that particular Force power is called either but it's definitely no variation of Force Destruction. I also know that Jerec can use it against you if he recharges himself too much with the Valley's power when you battle him. The effects you experience when he uses this power against you are your screen slowly fades white and you die when the fading is finished. This is proof that this power is not a variation of Force Destruction. If you don't believe me, you can try it out yourself. If that's not enough, you can actually listen to Rahn's description of Jerec before you fight him. You'll notice that Rahn says Jerec has the uncanny ability to sever a being's connections to the force like a dark cloud. I think I've explained enough about this subject.
As for my opinion about putting Force Destruction in Jedi Academy, I think can be done if there are certain handicaps put on it. Perhaps, making the Descruction an "analog" power where the amount of power put in is regulated by how long you hold down the assigned Force key (charging up) before releasing it. Also, keeping whoever uses it "grounded" or standing still, while it's executed, will limit the amount of unfair exploits to it's cataclysmic damage power. Well those are my two cents on this subject. I'd really like to hear what you have to say about this idea. If I've missed anything please address it. I look forward to your replies.
-Vitruvio
i've never really got why people think it is un-starwarsy... it wasn't in the movies, but then a lot of stuff in the games wasn't, and if dark jedi can create lightning i don't see why they couldn't create other similar offensive powers... maybe it has to do with the poor way it is graphically portrayed ingame.
Keeping the player grounded is one good idea, and i definately think it should be analogue. The other option is to make it appear in your hand as a glowing ball first (while you would be unable to block with the saber) allowing people to counter.
Obviously the area and damage would have to be tweaked, but that is an issue for the playtesters.
Severance would still be a cool power...:p
I loved that force. :)
Originally posted by toms
the more i think about it, the more i want it, but as a big blast of transparent "warping"... it would be like a full on kinetic blast, knocking everything out of its path.... a kind of super powered force push that was powerful enough to do damage.
You should be able to power up push enough to do that. :)
I think the reason Lucasarts got rid of Destruct was because it was too powerful. I mean, lightning and Grip are already extremely powerful dark powers, so lucasarts probably wanted to balance the Dark and Light side powers by taking out those destructive powers, such as Force Destruct.
Well a way would be to have the old jk type jump thing where you could charge it (uses less force mana but less of a jump) or tap it and it goes full power taking up maximum energy, in this case 3/4 would be good since jk2 and JA are slower than jk. (maybe even 4/5 mana)
Oh and Joe, The darkside is supposed to be destructive! i would rather destruction than that crappy drain which is hard to balance for Raven ;)
Originally posted by Agen_Terminator
Oh and Joe, The darkside is supposed to be destructive! i would rather destruction than that crappy drain which is hard to balance for Raven ;)
Well if Dark side where too destructive, Light sdide Jedi wouldn't survive! Protection and absorb aren't that effective, you know.
...then make them more effective...
Force destruction was really good. I also liked that other one... Ummm... What was it called? The best Dark Force in MoTS?
Destruct would be an awesome power, but should be a power that takes a lot of points.
Unleash a ball of energy with no splash damage, just one, hard to aim destructive force that does 90 health damage. But not only does it drain force power, it doesn't recharge for a good twenty or so seconds.
Hell yes bring it back.
It makes a nice philosophical compliment to the Absorb power and ethos of the lightside.
Plus, there was nothing quite like nailing someone with a similatenous conc and destruct blast.
Forget JO, this gets me in the mood for some JK again.
conc+destruct. Youo sseem to be an ex ffoasis player.
Well anyway I think there still should be some splash damage because if you miss that destruct you= screwed. 90 damage is a bit extreme.
Canyon O wasn't my kind of level, actually.
I still found nailing peeps with that combo to be effective in larger levels. And even it wasn't effective it was still fun to use.
It is good imo to have an offensive power like Destruct that is very powerful, yet very costly in mana and can be difficult at times to employ effectively (like over long distances). It appeals to the gambler in me; there's a lot of mana at risk when destruct is used by if you connect the payoff is also high.
when was this force power used, ever. it sounds cool though.
It was first used in JK, and it was VERY powerful. You think a ball couldn't have a blast radius that big, it does. Grip+Destruct was a very effective combo, add the conky if you wish!:D
Super gripping did it quicker! :D
maybe they need some sort of Reflect power... it would only work for a few seconds and would drain a fair amount of mana, but it would sent the attack (lightning, drain, grip and especially destruct) back at the caster. Different levels might cover a wider arc infront of you.
I still think a Force Sever, a Force Taint and a Meditation Power would be good for Lightsiders.
i agree that a force reflect would solve many imbalances to the game between light and dark and also allow for the return of force destruction (which i believe should be an extreme gambling style move). tho a fair "reflect" would have a second down time between absorbing and reflecting. it would be cool 2 be like our green lil pointy eared jedi master :p :D
Destruction would be a welcome addition to the Jedi arsenal.
It was perfectly fine in JK/MotS I thought.
In order to balance it, just make it use a lot of force points and mana.
Destruction is basically a "Force Missile" that uses fire instead of electricity (like dark side lightning).
The way it worked in JK/MotS was that you had to "aim" a big energy ball (basically a beach ball trailing red dust, hehe) at your enemy. This is a power that exists in the EU so don't fret over the officialness.
Basically absorb would counter the direct damage from the power (which had a slight bit of "splash" damage from the red dust from the explosion.. it was also possible at full speed to run into your own Destruction blast.. but that probably won't happen in Jedi Academy since you run so slowly).
However with the damage countered, it could still knock you back (sort of like a Push). So you had to watch out for that. I believe Protection also diverted the damage to your Protect Bubble but again you could be "pushed" off a cliff or into a wall.
This wouldn't mean the power would make Push or Pull irrelevant. We already had Grip, which did damage and also had a "pushing" effect to it. I hope it appears in the game... but that's up to Raven I guess. ; )
as long as absorb could at least lower the damage (depending on the level maybe?) then i wouldn't mind. i never played JK (must buy that some day).
just so long as you don't have team FFA where the entire strategy becomes "have the team keep the enemies busy while one guy charges force destruct from a distance"
I agree with Destruct making it into the game if Reflect makes it as well.
Both should have a cool down (Force won't recharge but you are otherwise free to use other powers) the length of which depends on what Destruct/Reflect level you are on.
Destruct should appear as a ball that gradually increases in size in your outstretched palm as you charge it. It should charge 10 damage points and take 10 Force points per second. Splash damage should be 1/3 the damage within a 1 metre radius.
If you combo Destruct + Push you get an additional Push (whatever level your Push is on) on anyone within 1 metre of the impact radius at the expense of only doing half the damage for the same Force cost.
The Destruct ball should travel a little bit (not much) faster than a rocket. And the Jedi should be vulnerable to damage but still able to run while charging.
Reflect should use 1/3 you Force pool, and create a 90 degree arc in front of you that lasts for 1-3 seconds depending on the level you are on. Any Force attacks (Light or Dark) that strike the arc will be returned in the exact direction of the attacker, possibly with 2/3 damage and duration. Higher Reflect levels will give you an additional 180 degree arc in front of you that simply reflects Force attacks away (not necessarily back to the attacker).
They should really make it come back... It was a great addition to the dark-side arsenal except it was kind of unrealistic because the splash damage is so large. I remember in MotS I'd fire one of the force destruction quite far away from some pirates and they'd die... Looked a bit weird.
yeah i hope for an expansion pack to come out with maybe some new missions and have 2 new powers
Light - Reflect
Dark - Destruction
tho if i had to prioritise one i'd have to say reflect... tho destruction is awesome, the lightside really needs a new power to restore balance so it can be useful in the dueling arena, where honour matters and not only useful for just grabbing silly flags lol :p
i would love to see both of these powers! i hope they do bring out an expansion with those to powers :D
I wouldn't mind at all if Destruction came back. In order to keep it balanced, they could do what the SBX 3.1 mod did. If you shot Destruction too close, the splash damage would hurt you as well as your opponent's. It would be really great if it was in SP. I miss blasting stormies with Destruction. About Jerec's use of Force Destruction, I think he used it in the cutscenes. It can be explained.
*With Rahn... when Jerec fired Destruction, it could have been a fatal hit. Rhan's look of disbelief/resignation on his face when he falls to his knees in the cutscene could suggest that he realizes that he's dying. Jerec decides to add insult to injury by beheading him.
*with Kyle... I'm not sure, but it was either Push or Destruction. If Jerec used Push, that would explain why Kyle flew back. But that doesn't really explain why the catwalk was severed. If Jerec used Destruction, he could have missed. The splash damage would still reach Kyle, throwing him back, but the Destruction could have destroyed the catwalk. I dunno, that's just my thoughts on the cutscenes.
This is a bit off topic, but I hope that the final boss in JA is a bit more like Jerec and less like Desann. Jerec was a tough opponent, but he wasn't hit-or-miss like Desann is. Jerec used lightning at close range, but he mainly fought you with the saber. It was only if you ran away that he unleashed Destruction on you. It was a good way to keep things up close and personal and emphasized saber skill more than Force mastery. (which was essential, given all the different possible Force combinations the player might have) Desann, on the other hand, relies too much on Force powers and not enough on the saber. What's worse, his Force attacks can't be countered. It makes the fight seem too random. I've died within seconds of fighting him. (like if he chokes me and slams me into a wall or chokes me and then blasts me with lightning.) There have also been instances where he dies too quickly. (I turn on Force Speed and give him a few good whacks with the strong style) I hope the final boss in JA is more the swashbuckling Jerec type than the Force-laming Desann type.
Yea I totally agree. It wasn't fair when Desann would choke you to no end and blast you with lightning and you couldn't do anything about it. I would like a more of a saberist boss.
Agreed, fighting Desann SUX0R3D! I was jus fighting him the other day (without using the invincible beam thing or force speed) and the only way I stayed alive was using the various powerups scattered around.Hopefully, Force Absorb will help the Jedi attack the Sith (there will be SP absorb, no?).
Also, what was really great about JK duels was the blocking. You could stand in front of Dark Jedi X and *block block counter block block counter*. In JO SP, I always felt like I had to attack, because neither Desann nor Tavion cold be reliably blocked.
Dunno about single player, but as the game stands right now, Force Destruct is not in Multiplayer. In fact it's the exact same force powers from Jedi Outcast.
I really hated the red "extra arm" that showed up everytime i choked someone in JO... they should delete that!
it was the Speed or Random death in single player saber fights that bugged me the most about JO. Half the time when i lost OR WON it seemed more to do with luck than judgement. Maybe i just wasn't very good.
I would have liked at least ONE all new power, but i'd be happier if there were better ways to USE them within the levels.
While Jerec DOES use destruction in the cutscenes of JK1 (for example when Kyle rejects his offer to join him), the move he used on Rahn didn't seem like any of the Force powers in the game, rather it seems more like Level 1 Grip in JK2 (immobilize without real damage).
It's very likely that Rahn was already in a weakened state (notice the dead pilot who was apparently badly beaten earlier), and he used the last of his strength in a desperate move to kill Jerec (which failed since the other Jedi leaped to protect their master, though he did succeed in almost killing Maw). The move rather than levitating him, immobilized him and forced him to his knees, to set him up for the coup de grace.
i think its kinda silly how they haven't introduced new force powers. it will be ok SP but MP will still have the silly imbalances that its always had in this game, and i think can put money on that they haven't improved the lightside so that it can be atleast somewhat useful in duels..... we reeeaaally needed that reflect :(, i just hope they make an expansion giving us reflect and destruction (which should be tonned down so that it is seldom used so we don't end up with "destruction spammers" in place of lightning spammers lol)
I never really played JK much, only the demo in MP vs my little brother. I really enjoyed blasting him of the catwalks with destruction...
Anyway I feel you are right, bring in reflect and destruction. If they're made in a good fashio they'll enhance gameplay a lot.
Just imagine firing a ball of fire on that poor only-using-guns sod (my friends friend does that... It's sad to see him kill himself when you run towards him with your lightsaber).
Or even better, let those lightning-spammers eat their own electrocuting death.
I'd love this...
Originally posted by Thazac
I never really played JK much, only the demo in MP vs my little brother. I really enjoyed blasting him of the catwalks with destruction...
Anyway I feel you are right, bring in reflect and destruction. If they're made in a good fashio they'll enhance gameplay a lot.
Just imagine firing a ball of fire on that poor only-using-guns sod (my friends friend does that... It's sad to see him kill himself when you run towards him with your lightsaber).
Or even better, let those lightning-spammers eat their own electrocuting death.
I'd love this...
*grins and nods sadistically at all the above comments* :P