What do you all think about Obi-Wan's Jedi status. Do you think he was still a Knight during the ep. 4 time or was an official master or maybe just unofficially?
My thinking is by the time ep. 4 comes along that he is a master just because he is one of the only Jedi's to survive the Jedi purge that we know of and he is very wise (you can't argue that).
So what do you all think? :)
yeah, i agree with you Jedi Apprentice. he's probably a master by Ep.4
No I dont think he is a Jedi Master because to become a Jedi Master, one has to successivly train his or her Padawan until they pass the Jedi trials to become a Jedi Knight. Only until then can they be deemed a Jedi Master. I highly doubt Anakin would have passed the Jedi trials since he is so rebellious to the Jedi Order, and also of his secret marriage with Padme. I'm pretty sure during the trials, the Jedi who test Anakin find out everything that he has been up to. :naughty: :D So I don't think Obi-Wan is a Jedi Master but he must have been a Jedi of high esteem though.
Doesn't Yoda say something like : "you fater, powerful jedi was he, humm!" to luke in ep5. He didn't say promising jedi, or powerful padawan ou pupil or whatever. So he must have become a jedi knight before he turned to the dark side.
People's views on how jedi attain the "rank" of Jedi Master is skewed. They must understand the force completly, and give themselves up to it. This is why I think Qui Gon was not a "master", because he did not give himself comletely to the force, therfore he did not "fade"
Good thinking CoupeS and ckc. I definitely agree with your thoughts. And your thoughts kind of lean towards him being a master. :)
Nuts, well that ends this discussion.
I was hoping he ended up a master because I think he truly deserves it.
Thanks for the info pbguy. :)
i thought qui-gon was only a jedi knight aswell.
unless he was only given the title after his death, when obi-wan was made a knight.
but often people confuse honorary titles with actual status
like a jedi can be called 'master jedi' even if they're not a master.
anakin calls obi-wan 'master'
they refer to it as master & apprentice eventhough the 'master' is still only a jedi knight
sometimes they use 'jedi knight' as a collective noun... like when obi-wan tells luke his father was a jedi knight, eventhough anakin turned to the dark-side before completing his training.
also like the beginning of Ep I says '....secretly depatches two jedi knights' refering to qui-gon and obi-wan, who we know was only a padawan
To be called Master, I think, you must have an internal understanding of the Force, like Yoda. They must let it guide them completly.
Qui Gon was too headstrong to really give himself up to the force completely.
I don't think that Obi Wan was one because of the fact that he failed in training his apprentice.
The time of ep 4 I don't think he would be one because of the fact that there was no jedi council or temple...so it really didn't matter. He was a jedi knight, plain and simple. :)
Well this may sound sorta :stupid: and :nerdish: but becoming a Jedi Master is a mental thing, IMO. It's deeper than someone handing you a medal. It doesn't matter if there was no council or he failed his training, because in Ep 4, Obi Wan understood the force, meaning he let himself go completly. He let it guide him.
qui-gon jin was a jedi master but he can never join the jedi council because he broke too many codes
Well, I suppose you all have not studied your Star Wars. As I recal, Obi Wan was struck down by Darth Vader in Episode 4. When he was struck down, he then became one with the Force, and to become One with the Force you must be a Jedi Master. So, yes, Obi Wan was a Jedi Master and a very powerful one at that. Aside from him, Yoda was the only other living Jedi Master. As a side note, you do not become a Jedi Master when you sucessfully train a Padawan learner. A Jedi only attains the rank of Master when he has trained a Padawan, and respected and followed the Jedi Code. A Jedi may not become a Master for some time. And Qui-Gon Jin was not a Jedi Master...
Originally posted by Jorus Ardel
Well, I suppose you all have not studied your Star Wars. As I recal, Obi Wan was struck down by Darth Vader in Episode 4. When he was struck down, he then became one with the Force, and to become One with the Force you must be a Jedi Master. So, yes, Obi Wan was a Jedi Master and a very powerful one at that. Aside from him, Yoda was the only other living Jedi Master. As a side note, you do not become a Jedi Master when you sucessfully train a Padawan learner. A Jedi only attains the rank of Master when he has trained a Padawan, and respected and followed the Jedi Code. A Jedi may not become a Master for some time. And Qui-Gon Jin was not a Jedi Master...
Hmm...
I agree with you regarding Obi Wan being a Jedi Master, but I really don't think becoming a Jedi Master is as easy as "training a padawan, and respecting the code." No one will hand you a medal and say, "congrats, you're now a Jedi Master". It has to be a deep understanding between the Jedi and the Force. There is no real guideline to attaining this understanding.
How do you know that Obi-wan didn't take the Jedi trials after TPM? If that happened, then he would've passed and earned the rights to train Anakin, thus granting him a Jedi Master.
i read that qui-gon had 3 apprentices- 1 who became a jedi knight, making qui a master, one who went dark or somethng like that, and then obi-wan.
as far as obi being a master, i thing he is technically a knight. UNLESS ANAKIN TURNS AFTER BECOMING A JEdi, i think obi will stay a knight.
and we don't know for sure if anakin is a knight or not when he falls to the dark side. ep.III should clear that up.
plus isn't the ability to "fade away" into the force a learned trait that yoda will teach obi wan after ep II? i thought GL said that was why vader and qui gon never dissappeared. i could be wrong, but i remember him or was it rick macallum (sp), that said that?
The only other apprentice of Qui-Gon's that I know of is Xanatos. You can read about him in the Jedi Apprentice book series. :)
To concider Obi-Wan a Master isn't all that wrong to do. :)
Although technically, he never achieved Master status, according to those who answer questions over at wwwStarWars.com (
http://www.starwars.com). :)
has GL said anything on this?
BTW, Jedi Apprentice, your new sig pic is awesome!:)
Well, those people are pretty much as close to GL as you can get. :)
While as far as I know Obi-Wan never technically became a Jedi Master, I believe he would have become one if the whole Jedi Order hadn't been exterminated by the Empire...
He just never got the chance really.
As for the Kaminoan's calling Obi-wan "Master Jedi", it's a sign of respect, not the actual "rank" if you will. Yoda calls Obi "Master Kenobi" because they are in front of the younglings, and as such, is trying to teach them respect for the older Knights. It as probably a practice for the Younglings to call everyone Knight and above "Master jedi" or "Master insertnamehere", sort of like how in the Armed Forces you are to refer to all ranks higher to you as "Sir".
Just my two credits worth...
well since yoda was the leading member of the council when it was destroyed, then technically he could have given obi wan the title of master if he thought obi deserved it.
Originally posted by dark jedi 8
BTW, Jedi Apprentice, your new sig pic is awesome!:)
Thanks dark jedi! :)
I think this is one of those subjects that you can take it how you want to. I like you take it that he was a master, but there is also the information that points to him being just a knight.
So I think it's almost a matter of opinion. :)
Of course. I mean there's no real evidence to completely prove either side of the argument, so it's just down to personal opinion in the end, what you think might or might not have happened.
i think he was a jedi master because he was pne of the last ones and plus he was a great jedi knight in ep. II
Originally posted by Darklighter
How do you know that Obi-wan didn't take the Jedi trials after TPM? If that happened, then he would've passed and earned the rights to train Anakin, thus granting him a Jedi Master.
I suppose that you've haven't seen TPM when you placed this thread. In TPM Yoda gives to Obi-Wan the status of Jedi-Knight and he's allowed to train Anakin SKywalker.:rolleyes:
And when does Luke Skywalker becomes a Jedi Knight? In ROTJ you hear Chewie tell Han that Luke has become a Jedi Knight. So why don't make a thread and discuse when Luke became a Jedi because he didn't finished his training when he left Yoda.
Originally posted by Jedi Skywalker
And when does Luke Skywalker becomes a Jedi Knight? In ROTJ you hear Chewie tell Han that Luke has become a Jedi Knight. So why don't make a thread and discuse when Luke became a Jedi because he didn't finished his training when he left Yoda.
yes you're right, luke dosn't actually become a jedi knight until the end of ROTJ when he saves vader.
when he says to yoda "so i am a jedi knight"
yoda "one thing remains.. you must confront vader"
or something like that
so it goes back to what i said
sometimes they use 'jedi knight' as a collective noun... like when obi-wan tells luke his father was a jedi knight, eventhough anakin turned to the dark-side before completing his training.
also like the beginning of Ep I says '....secretly depatches two jedi knights' refering to qui-gon and obi-wan, who we know was only a padawan
You're right. It comes around the same way every time!
Well, Obi-Wan was a Jedi Master..I don't know what you all are talking about, but he was. At the time (Episode 4) Yoda and Obi-Wan were the only remaining Jedi Masters in the Universe. When both of them died, Luke Skywalker was then the only remaining Jedi Master. You can read any book or watch any movie regarding Star Wars, but I guarantee you he was a Jedi Master.:gben:
Originally posted by Jorus Ardel
Well, Obi-Wan was a Jedi Master..I don't know what you all are talking about, but he was. At the time (Episode 4) Yoda and Obi-Wan were the only remaining Jedi Masters in the Universe. When both of them died, Luke Skywalker was then the only remaining Jedi Master. You can read any book or watch any movie regarding Star Wars, but I guarantee you he was a Jedi Master.:gben:
The point is WHEN DID OBI-WAN BECAME A JEDI KNIGHT!!!!
I don't doubt he was a Jedi Knight but when he became it no one knows!!!:D
Well Obiwan did kill sith in the end of episode I, maybe that was enough show of skills so the jedi council made him jedi knight.
Yoda gives him the rank of jedi knight before guigon funeral, so obiwan didnt have to taka part of trials.
I think obiwan is still knight in episode II, but he could be master in episode III, only time will tell.
didn't yoda and the council grant him the status of jedi knight at the end of TPM?
anyway, officially he wasn't a master, but if the jedi were around during the time of ep.IV then obi would defenately have been qualified to be a master.
I didn't read all the posts here, just the last few. But here's my take based on what I've read in the novels, comics, and RPGs.
Obi-Wan was granted Knighthood at the end of TPM. He didn't go though any official Trials of Knighthood. But this isn't uncommon. Many times, padawans become knights when they show the skills requred while on a mission with their master.
Once a padawan becomes a knight, they can then take on a padawan of their own. Once that padawan passes their tests or are granted knighthood, their master is granted the Master title. By being able to train a knight, the master-knight has demostrated the skills to be a Master.
So, Obi-Wan isn't a Master in title during ATOC. He's just called master as a sign of respect. Like when the Naboo Council called Anakin, "master." Not untill Anakin becomes a Knigh should Obi-Wan become a Master in title.
That leaves the question, Does Anakin ever achieve Knighthood before his fall to the darkside? And by that answer, does Obi-Wan ever officially become a Master?
I feel that he's earned the title as Master by EP4, he just didn't have a padawan to train, since they were all purged by the Empire.
But hey, that's just my take.
He was a knight (we saw that in the end of TPM, padawns can't train other Jedi!), but if there had been a council at that time, he would SURELY be a master!
What about the fact that at the beginning of Episode 2, Palpatine asks if Padme can be under the protection, like an old friend, like Master Kenobi. Now correct if I am wrong, but also on Kamino, he is referred to as Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi. So, with the destruction of the Jedi Ranks through the Empire, Obi-wan had to go into hiding.
if i remember correctly anakin says obiwan is as powerful as mace windu in some point episode II. But i still think he is only knight in episode II, because if you compare mace windus skill to obiwans mace looks better. Obiwan still has a lot to learn.
But in episode IV i think obiwan is master, he has become one with force.
What he says is "I am grateful for being his apprentice. He's as powerful as Master Windu, and as wise as Master Yoda."
But this was before he saw the true Dark power of Dooku. But then again, Vader probably will end up killing Dooku, so who knows.
as i understand it, the trails are like overcoming a personal fear or something
this is what i think
obi-wan is given the title jedi knight after he kills maul,
losing qui-gon was obi-wan biggest fear but instead of letting the fear defeat him he overcame it and eventually beat maul.
that was obi-wan's trail
luke's trail was to face vader and destroy him...
yoda told luke he would have to defeat vader before becoming a jedi knight (even though through the whole of ROTJ he calls himself a jedi knight, which again goes back to the point i made before about honorary titles)
now luke suceeds in destorying vader, by helping him turn back the light-side and anakin skywalker.
so luke becomes an actual jedi knight when anakin kills the emperor.
actually... yoda said luke had to (i can't remember the exact line) confront or face vader. not destroy. i think it was face...
And for God's Sake! Do any of you people actually read the previous threads and links?
In my first post in this thread I answered the question with this link!!! (
http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/jocasta/askjc20020606.html)
Hey, there's our answer, and we're all stupid. Thanks pbguy1211.
well i posted it the first time i posted in this thread.... but some of you decided not to look at the link.