Cyphadious = Sidious
Sidous = Palpanine
Palpanine = Changling
Why?
Did ya see Zam Wheelel die? - See the true form of the Changling - Darkskinned and wrinkly - Just like Sidous in 4,5, and 6. Te Jedis do not recognise Palpanine cuse he looked al wrinkly and **** when he was a Jedi Master. He faked his Death before episode 1 (right before) and started the clone army and his attempt to take over the senate. In Episode 2 he compleates both goals - he has ammased a clone army to controll and gotten full controll of the republic. He also has ammased a robotic army as his Sith counterpart. All has gone according to plan. He has two large scale armys at his disposal.
Sorry for the SPELINKING I was in a hurry.
just curious- who was that ostrage-looking jedi on the jedi council in ep:1? was he of the same species as the people raising the clone army? if so, it may have been him
Maybe Palp has a brother or even better, a twin brother that has not been disclosed yet...
Who was Sidious' Master when he was the apprentice? Darth Bane?
D4
As said before there are wholes in anyones theories
I personally thonk that Sidious and Palpatine are the same person
It could be explained that the jedi council (epecially anakin, mace and yoda) do not discover him in ep2 because he is not in personal contact with them (always some kind of distance between the senate and the jedi council)
but mace and yoda talked about something which is disturbing their feelings (eg the dark master)
I am also agreeing with some of you who say that sifo dias name was only used by the sith in order to order the clone army ... etc.
in which way sifo dias died is probably not too important
(sorry about my writing but i am german native speaker)
greets funkyhead
okay, for all you people thinking sidious and palpy are different people, now hear this: they are played by the same actor, case closed. I dont think lucas did this to save money... they are the same character. THe only other possible explanation for this would be that palpatine is a clone of sidious, but I cant see the logic in that. As for syfa dious.... blarg! It all was making sense until mace and yoda said he was part of the jedi counsil till he died. It sounded at first like he was just sidious in disguise, but yoda and mace thwarted that idea. Sypha Dious was either
1. Darth Maul... no wait, darth maul wastn't part of the jedi counsel
2. Some jedi master that sidious killed and took his identity to fool the kaminoans.
3. Or this... Maybe Sidious was part of jedi counsel for a while then faked his own death then renamed himself Sidious after making a deal with the kaminoans.. oh wait, they would recognise that him and Senator palpatine from naboo were the same dude. (same actor... to all those thinking they are different people).
hey, but then again, they never figured out that clark kent and super man were the same person. So it has to be #2 or else Lucas got himself into some deep doo doo dis time.
Sidious is Palpatine
Sifa Dyas cannot be sidious because Palpatine was a respect member of the senate for years.
Sidious is Palpatine
Sifa Dyas cannot be sidious because Palpatine was a respect member of the senate for years.
Are you talking to yourself? That's what we've been saying all along, thanks for your input... NOT!
I never thought of it that way, that Doukoo could be trying to get rid of Sidious by warning Obiwan and the jedi. Even telling him his name.
EP 3 as lucas said the theme will revolve around
THE DESTRUCTION OF THE JEDI
Ok here's my 2 cents:
Palpatine is Darth Sidious.
Count Dooku is Darth Tyrannus.
Apparently Sith have nicknames along with their past true names.
Count Dooku and Sidious apparently dont communicate much or dooku is trying to betray Sidious because Dooku tells obi-wan of sidious being in-charge of the republic and senate(Palpatine) and Dooku also didnot know of the plans for the clone troopers (he said it "It doesn't seem possible, How could the jedi come up with a army so quickly") OR.... he was playing both sides in saying he didnt know how and the rest of his people: Bank Clan, Neimodians, Techno Union...don't know that he is (Darth Tyrannus in the sith) excpept for Jango Fett.
So really Tyrannus Made Separist Union so he could have a huge Army to go to war against the Jedi.
So really Palpatine/Sidious/Sifa Dyas-believed dead jedi master ordered clone troopers ten years ago before TPM. And now got the emergency powers to use the clones that obi-wan found. To fight the war against Dooku/Tyrannus's army.
So in due time Palpatine will reveal he is Sidious and call himself Emperor and his clone troopers will turn to the Empire and hunt down the Jedi. With the help of fallen jedi Anakin/Vader.
Or im all wrong :D Or Lucas backed himself into a corner :eek:
But I think im pretty close. ;)
Sidious and Sifa-Dyas sound too close to not be same person. I guess he is Palpatine and he has enough dark power to cloud all-jedi's mind for the jedi NOT to see him as a sith and even more NOT to see him as old Jedi Master Sifa-Dyas believed Dead...
Sifo-Dyas is a separate person entirely from Palpatine/Sidious.
We're told that he was killed ten years earlier so we can safely assume that the Jedi Council and Obi-Wan knew Sifo-Dyas to some degree or other.
Since Kamino is such a remote system, with little or no contact with outsiders, it would be simple enough for Palpatine, Dooku or someone on their side to masquerade as the dead Jedi and place an order for an army of clones. Perhaps Sifo-Dyas himself was in league with the dark side and ordered the clone army, only to be killed later by Palpatine? With the resources available to Palpatine as a Sith Lord, financing such an endeavour would also be trivial.
After all, Sifo-Dyas isn't around to answer questions, is he?
If Doukoo does have his own agenda then it was to form the sepratist movement to drive out the sith, however the jedi likely wouldn't approve of him battling against the senate so it would be wise to leave.
It sounds like that could be possible, in that once he gained allies,like the trade federation he found out about the sith lord sidious then he could of purposely pushed himself to the darkside to find out his schemes.
also you guys hsould read on the prelude to AOTC official book, t give more info to AOTC plot
Ah... but perhaps it is instead Palpatine telling Dooku to create a seperatist movement in order to GET him emergency powers in the first place and allow him to take control!
If you look at all of it as a grand deception by Palpatine, it makes much more sense. He's just sitting back, letting his plans come to fruition, year after year.
That would also explain why Dooku had the Seperatists make the plans for the Death Star and then took them himself and gave them to Palpatine.
2 things I dont know for sure is
Were the Clone Troopers really made for the republic to use for the war, or where they made to be Palpatine's soldiers and tell the kamino people that the clones are for the republic, but really for Palpatine's empire. I'm just thinking Dooku erased the history and map of Kamino so that the Jedi or anyone wouldnt find it so that the kaminoans wouldnt tell a jedi that it's made for the republic, but in reality Palpatine/Sidious said that, B/C he cant say its for the empire to kill everyone. hehe
Also is Sifa Dyas Sidious/Palpatine? when he was good and a jedi master in the Council and faked his death to turn to the sith, or was he a jedi master that died at the hands of Palpatine/Sidious so maybe he really had connections with Kamino people and Palpatine used his identity to get clones for him to use 10 years later when he'll need them.
The Clonetroopers were ordered by Dooku/Tyranus posing as Sifa-Dyas after Sifa-Dyas' death. Tyranus would know that alerting the Kaminoans that it was the Jedi that were ordering them would ensure secrecy. Kamino is, after all, on the Outer Rim. He would also, no doubt, have said that no contact with Coruscant should be made, the troops remaining on Kamino until a Jedi came for them. They were not ordered for the Republic, but would be used by the Republic as Palpatine planned to agitate a separatist movement headed by his apprentice that would necessitate his being given emergency powers by the Senate. Lo and behold, at exactly that time, a clone army becomes available ordered by - wait - a Jedi master. Noone would suspect anything other than that Sifo-Dyas, around the time of his death, obviously had a glimpse of the future using the Force and ordered the clones, dying before he managed to tell the Jedi Council.
And as an aside, on the same topic of long term planning, Palpatine is already planning the Death Star for the point on the future when he dissolves the Senate:
"How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?"
"Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battlestation."
Firstly, on the matter Sidious/Palpatine. He may never be refered to by name in the movies themselves, but it's a very well documented fact: Vader's master, the head of the Empire and all it encompassed was Emperor Palpatine. And you'll notice, Emperor Palpatine is wearing the exact same robe (right down to the same neckclasp) as Sidious in episode 1 (and I assume 2, but I haven't checked that yet). He's played by the same actor (in RotJ, not ESB however, I think). And when you see Palpatine in Ep II you'll notice he isn't looking too well. His skin is pale, and you can see a lot of vains (I think). No, it's not a bad makeup job after a big night out, the physical decay that reflects his inner corruption -The Dark Side- (evident in RotJ) has already set in. Palpatine is Sidious. End of story.
As for Sifo-Dyas he must have been a real Jedi Master. It makes no sense that he was an alter-ego of Sidious/Palpatine, Dooku or Maul (*see end of post for more details). Obi Wan certainly knows of him. He asks the Prime Minister of Kamino a second time who commissioned the Clone army to make sure he heard right, and when he's sure he immediately tells him:
"Master Sifo Dyas was killed (about/almost/just over*) ten years ago."
*Only exact word I can't remember. Also, to my recollection there was a lot of "about ten years ago..." when refering to both the events of Ep I and Dyas' death, so whether he died before or after the Trade Blockade of Naboo is still up in the air to my mind.
So either he was one of the Jedi in the Council Chamber in Ep I, away on other business (ordering armies perhaps?) or already dead.
It's very very likely Sidious somehow arranged his death, and what Mace Windu and Yoda know of this is unclear. It's entirely possibly it was Palpatine or one of his minions posing as Dyas to order the army. Kamino must be a very quiet little out of the way place for ALL record of it to be so easily erased. They may not get much news out that way and so have no idea what Dyas looked like. And that's assuming that they can even tell one (human? Or at least whatever species Dyas was) from another. All the Kaminoans looked pretty similar to me.
But there's another possiblity I haven't seen addressed (not to say that it hasn't been of course). Sifo-Dyas may well have ordered it, in good faith, himself. It's not at all unheard of for the Jedi to serve the Senate directly. Palpatine somehow tricks Dyas into believing that's the will of the Senate, or else manipulated the Chancelor, Valourum, to request the Jedi to travel to Kamino. Or else he acted independently of the Senate, believing the army called for (again probably Palpatine's hand in that). He was then (probably) killed off by Palpatine and his minions, or possibly died on other Jedi business (it's a dangerous line of work after all).
Now as for my reasons Sifo-Dyas cannot (sensibly) be any of the known Sith Lords:
Maul - The most unlikely. A man of few words, not really the discussion circle type. Obi Wan knew of Dyas, so one assumes Qui Gin did too. And if was a leading Council member you think they would have SEEN him. To them, Maul was definately a new surprise.
Dooku - It's pretty clear that he WAS a Jedi Master, but that he's well known by Mace and others (as Dooku), and I doubt he was living a double-life as TWO Jedi Masters. And if he was I doubt they (the Jedi) would have fallen for it.
Palpatine/Sidious - Certainly seems to be pretty good at pulling the wool over Jedi eyes, but for him to be Dyas (which is far too convaluted to begin with) there are certain timing problems. At earliest Dyas died very shortly before the events of Naboo. So he'd have to (aside from the problems of living as a Jedi Master and not allowing others to feel his true thoughts/emotions when you'd think Jedi Masters would be fairly open with one another, and raising a young Sith as a single parent) fake his own death, immediately becoming an ambassador for Naboo and getting assigned to the Senate (a rather lofty position). Then in well under a year he'd have to have manipulated the entire Senate and have them eating out of his hands, and become the new Supreme Chancelor. Say what you like about Palpatine, but you can't say he's ever in a rush. He's a subtle, patient man. He must have been a full time Senator for years.
No, Sifo-Dyas must have been his own man, so to speak. But then, do we even know he was human? Or male? How he came to commission the Clones (assuming it was him and not an imposter), and what fate befell him, no one ('cept Lucas) can say...
After a little more thought it probably WAS Dooku impersonating Sifo-Dyas. After all, they must have had Jango right from the start of the process, and he did say he was recruited by Tyraanus on the moon of somewhere or other. Now before every one jumps up and down about Maul being alive back then and the whole "only two Sith" deal there are many explanations. For one thing, Palpatine is clearly already grooming Anakin while Dooku was still about, and he tries to replace Vader with Luke. My guess is that he likes to do away with his apprentices before they get any ideas about taking his place. He may already have been grooming Dooku. Pushing him away from the Jedi fold. Even before pushing him from the light (if he even needed a push) he may have shown him the need for an army in the Republic's future. Maul's days may have been numbered even without Obi-Wan's help, Dooku certianly would've been more useful than Maul in this next phase of his plans. It would be simple to use the name of a (conveniently) recently dead Jedi Master to make the request for a clone army. Keeping the real instigator's name quiet for political reasons. There are any number of explanations on the how and why of Dooku's involvment in creating the Clone army.
(PS Sorry about any typos etc, far too long to re-read...... : )
Most probably this question will be answered in Ep.III
Also remeber that there is another question unanswered from Ep.I
Why Qui-Gon did not dissapear after his death???
I read somewhere recently that is because of the way that he tied himself to the Force... that there is both a Unifying Force and a Living Force, where the Unifying Force focuses on the total unifying force of nature while the Living Force focuses more on the individual...
Then again, some people argue that Yoda and Obi-Wan were actually the first Jedi to disappear on death... Since I don't think Anakin faded away even though he turned to the light side before he died...
Eh, no one knows, really. :D
Rich ...
i didnt understand a word
...
could you repeat your posting to tell a fool like me what you were talking about
cause i didnt get that whoel unifying and living force
thanx
funkyhead
I think my explanation covers more, just to sum it up remember the Viceroy revealed the sith to Doukoo and let him know about his influence in the senate, he tried to take it to the jedi who didn't beleive him(remember) so he left forming the seperatist movement and he most likely purposely fell to the darkside to infiltrate the sith.(remember he pushes the issue a lot like Qui gon). Now he is likely trying to entrap sidious by slickly warning the jedi, thus to help himself beomce the new leader of the sith, leader of a new dictatorship, or to be the rouge hero that goes down as a legend by coming up with the plans to drive the sith out of the republic.
Just a more likely scenario, that will be found out in ep3
Anyone who nags about this again needs to be shot...this is just for the record ;)
From theforce.net:
Palpatine - Supreme Chancellor, Darth Sidious
Actor: Ian McDiarmid
Still sticking to his evil ways, Palpatine manipulates the Senate to do his bidding and start the Clone Wars.
that is the most likely scenario, but we cannot forget the possibility that palpy might be a clone of sidious.
The way I read it was that Sifo Dyas was a member of the Jedi Council killed in action (possibly by Sidious,Maul,Tyrannus) shortly before the final battle of Naboo. Sidious then uses his name to order the clones for the republic (as a member of the Jedi Council he would have been trusted by the Kaminoans to be acting under the orders of the Republic and also Dyas wouldn't be around to argue), nothing more.
I dont think Dooku was Dias. Maybe he forced him to order the clones? Dooku was a respected Jedi back then was he not? Why act as Dias when he could order the clones under his own name>?
perhaps "Chancellor" Palpatine is a shapeshifter/changeling who is working for Sidious.
(why do you think they made a such big deal of introducing 'changelings' into the StarWars universe, with that female bounty hunter in the beginning of the film? the fact that she was a changeling served no dramatic purpose to the plot of Ep2. but this will serve a dramatic purpose in Ep3 , as we realise that NOBODY is who they seem to be)
perhaps "Chancellor" Palpatine is a shapeshifter/changeling who is working for Sidious
If your going to consider that scenario then why not just think that palpatine was a clone of sidious who is gaining power and just when he has enough power sidious will "dismiss" the clone palpatine and take over the position of chansellor of the senate and become emperor. That would give alot more meaning to the name "attack of the clones"
Only someone who knew nearly 10 years before AotC that a war is raising can come into question to have ordered the clones.
Death of Darth Maul, Palpatines election for chansellor and the ordering of the clones date back to nearly the same time.
I think we can take for granted that Palpatine (alias Sidious /Please no discussion about this fact, read Palpatines Eye) ordered the clones (in which way- / by whom ever) to fight the Sepratist, introduced by himself, to gain Emergency powers.
Hmm, this whole Sifa-Dyas topic is more complicated. I think I will draw a timeline or a mindmap or anything like this, to figure out what/who is possible.
By the way :
In the films there has not been given any hint for a Palpatine clone.
Good Lord, you people are making this way too damn complicated. :D
It's relatively simple... and there are only two options that could ever POSSIBLY work.
Option 1) Sifo-Dyas was a member of the Jedi Council who died (in battle or whatnot) over 10 years before Episode II (a year or two before Episode I). Remember that Yoda and Windu both knew the name Sifo-Dyas when Obi Wan mentioned it. Master Dooku probably around this time gave up his robes as a Jedi (the specific reason for which is never revealed) to become Darth Tyrannus, as he could not be the Sith Apprentice until Maul was dead.
Sidious/Palpatine orders Tyrannus to go to the Kamino cloning facility in the Outer Rim, a facility with little to no contact with the Core Worlds, and ordered him to place an order for many many clones so that when the Seperatist movement began, he (Palpatine) could make himself look like the savior of the Republic.
Option 2) Palpatine has been playing both sides of the fence for MANY years. Perhaps he WAS Master Sifo-Dyas, a member of the Jedi Council. At some point, he turns corrupt and disappears. In order to keep things quiet about a corrupt Council member, the Council agrees to fake the records to indicate Sifo-Dyas was killed (remember that Windu and Yoda never confirm OR deny that Sifo-Dyas was killed - they just look at each other)... But that would mean that Palpatine would have to be one DAMN good disguise artist for the Jedi not to recognize him as the Chancellor.
I personally think it's the first option and that this doesn't need to be at all complex. :D
You have to reason from his char.
I beleive that Doukoo is serving to gain power, im sure most of you have done research and before he left he was already upset with the corruption of the senate, and felt the jedi order shouldn't serve the republic no longer.
When he found out from nute Gunray (trade federation) about the sith lord, and how he has influence in the senate he told the jedi, who felt that the trade federation was lyining to save their bussiness, the count believed them.
Doukoo was very charismatic and well respected so when he left the other jedi left, REMEMBER THE LOST 20, the jedi who defected from the order to seek other interest.That was around the time of episode 1 when he defected.
Since then he's tooken his Jedi respect and charismatic ability, he inspired the clans,guilds, to form their government structure who grew tired of the republic.
It could be that hes willingly fallen to the darkside to infiltrate the sith, knowing that sidious would be desperate for a new apprentice. Sidious could is more likely using Tyrannus the same way hes using Sidious. now that he knows him and his plans.
This moment could of been when he told Obiwan sincere or not he told him a wealth of information, now the jedi can connect that the sith lord maul was with the trade federation, and that nute gunray told them that a sith lord was in charge named sidious.!!
However the jedi arent you nieve, however if they were to accuse palpatiene, this would make the jedi look awfully bad to all the republic as palpatine is looked to as a savior;whats more some may accuse the jedi of treason if they did this and could bring more peril to the jedi, so that could be a reason for them being quiet about it.
However in the end Doukoo will die, but what was his goal.
1 To become a sith lord and later overthrow sidious to beomce new master of the sith.
2 To what the jedi would not have done, beleive nute Gunray and try to infiltrate sith by pushing yourself to the darkside; to expose them and then drive them out of the republic. thus becoming the legendary hero who exposed and eradicated the sith from within, according to the Legend of DOukoo.
3 Or to later kill sidious, and then influnece other defects from the order to destroy the backbone of the republic which is the jedi.
Or a combination of all things, since he doesn't succed in any of them ep 3 will see his clear motive.
I believe Dooku left after the events of EP1. Part of the reason he left, I heard, was because of Qui Gon's death. It could have been the in action of the council after Qui Gon's death, I can't remember now.
In the movie it's not clear whether Sifa-Dyas dies ALMOST or OVER ten years ago. I believe it was OVER ten years ago, because otherwise we should have seen him in the council in EP1.
oh dear everyone seems to be making rather a big deal of this.
my take on it was that sifa dyous (sp.) died, giving sidious/palpatine the opportunity the chance to order the army under his name.....10 yrs ago, around the time they met anakin
now 10 yrs later, as anakin is about to go dark the army comes o fruition as does his army
as he says everything is as he planned. of course sidious and palpatine are the same. and sidious was never on teh jedi council, he just stole that guys name. unless of course sifa dyous was dookus name b4 he left the council
As far as the belief there can only be two Sith at a time, I dont buy it as a blanket statement. At the end of EP1, at QuiGon's funeral Yoda says exactly these words:
"Always two there are. No more, No less."
Mace's reply is:
"But which did he kill? The Master, or the apprentice?"
Yoda does not say there are only "two total" as a blanket statement. It is obvious the context of the topic related to a Master/apprentice relationship. I think it is a possibility with the Sith, Like the Jedi, Each Master only has one apprentice.
Tyranus, Jengo and Maul all three had to have been trained along the line somewhere, so for me, that along with the exact wording used by Yoda, shoots the theory of "only two total" down in flames.
We will see in EP3.
D4
Originally posted by Dark4ces
As far as the belief there can only be two Sith at a time, I dont buy it as a blanket statement. At the end of EP1, at QuiGon's funeral Yoda says exactly these words:
"Always two there are. No more, No less."
Mace's reply is:
"But which did he kill? The Master, or the apprentice?"
Yoda does not say there are only "two total" as a blanket statement. It is obvious the context of the topic related to a Master/apprentice relationship. I think it is a possibility with the Sith, Like the Jedi, Each Master only has one apprentice.
Tyranus, Jengo and Maul all three had to have been trained along the line somewhere, so for me, that along with the exact wording used by Yoda, shoots the theory of "only two total" down in flames.
We will see in EP3.
D4
Actually you're quite wrong...
There are only ever two at any point in time. It's been that was for several thousand years since the near destruction of the Sith.
EP1 there was Sidious(Master) and Maul(App.)
At that point Tyrannus\Dooku was still a Jedi. Dooku became the apprentice after Maul died and Dooku left the Order.
Jango(not Jengo) was never a sith he is CONTRACTED (not an apprentice) by Dooku.
Think about it. In EP5 & 6 Vader is trying to get Luke to join him on the Dark Side and kill the Emperor, not work along with him. Then Palpatine tries to get Luke to kill Vader and join him as his apprentice.
Good points, but I still think, personelly, that Lucas has a big surprise planned. Play on words are a good writers best friend.
I am most likely wrong, but I just cant see their only being two Sith's in the entire scheme of things. If there are only two then the Sith is so much stronger than the Jedi the rest of the story is too unbelievable for me.
Also, the changling introduced in EP2 was for a Major reason to be revieled in EP3, me thinks.
D4
Just to clarify, Obi-Wan does say that Sifo-Dyas was killed almost ten years ago... just finally loaded up the damn thing and listened for it.
In any case, that just means that Sifo-Dyas disappeared nearly 10 years earlier... perhaps Dooku was one of the lost 20 who left the Order because he hated the Senate, and Sidious was a means to an end?
Originally posted by SpaceMonkey
Palpatine = Darth Sideous, Sypherdeous
Count Dooku = Darth Tyrannus
The reason that the Jedi don't know that Palpatine is evil/whats going on, is that the dark side is clouding the jedi's vision.
Originally posted by etherealsilk
Wasn't it mentioned that he [Syfo Dyas] was on the Jedi Council somewhere? So he couldn't very well be just some made up name then.
Maybe he was a Jedi Master that got seduced by the dark side and is now palpatine, but then the other council member would recognize him.
I disagree that Palpatine is also Sifo-Dyas.
Originally posted by Natty
... if Sifadous (the good jedi?) is Palpatine and Sifedous was thought to be killed 10years ago, wouldn't people have noticed when Palpatine rocks up a few years later and looks exactly the same as Sifadous? I mean I don't think they have plastic surgeons in the galaxy far, far away... do they????
Originally posted by Vanor
...if Sifo-Dyas was a full fledged Jedi, then why don't any of the current Jedi refer to Palpatine as Sifo-Dyas? They would have to know it's the same person. And Sifo-Dyas died aroudn 10 years ago according to Ep2, or about the time of Ep1. Palpatine was a senator prior to this, and I don't think a Jedi could be a senator and member of the Jedi Console.
Right! Ten years ago was when Ep1 took place, am I right? Palpatine was already a senator, and was already Darth Sidious, yet Sifo-Dyas was supposed to be alive and on the Jedi coucil at that time, right? Even if they DID have VERY good plastic surgeons, the times don't work out.
Originally posted by Perniciosus
The only OTHER possible explination is that Dooku went to Kamino on order from Sidious and presented himself as Master SifoDyas. That could possibly stay consistant with the time frame, but, again, gets lost because Obi-Wan, Mace and Yoda appear to confirm that SifoDyas was, in fact, a former Jedi...
Sounds very possible!
I agree with RichDeisal's "Option 1". I think Count Dooku/Darth Tyrranus was once called Sifo-Dyas.
Evidence:
He was once a Jedi - even trained Qui-gonn - but ten years ago he "died" (probably under suspicious circumstances). This is right around the time...
-Maul died, and would need to be replaced as apprentice to the Sith Lord, Darth Sidious,
-as the defeat on the Federation's droid army,
-AND at the same time the order was placed for the clone army by Sifo-Dyas.
I just wish Obi-wan had made it clear whether or not he recognized dooku as Sifo-Dyas. >:( That is the biggest flaw in this theory.
Originally posted by Hal_Horn
It is Sifo-Dyas, straight from the script.
I believe there was a real Jedi master named Sifo-Dyas, but after he died Sidious used his name to place an order for the clone army. Maybe Sidious even killed him in order to use his name.
Originally posted by Blenny
After a little more thought it probably WAS Dooku impersonating Sifo-Dyas. After all, they must have had Jango right from the start of the process, and he did say he was recruited by Tyraanus on the moon of somewhere or other. ... It would be simple to use the name of a (conveniently) recently dead Jedi Master to make the request for a clone army...
Yeah, that's another good possibility.
Originally posted by Baal Fett
the whole Jango/Dooku thing confuses me too...Jango Helps build the clone army...then leaves and helps build the droid army? but then the armies fight each other? why? Dooku is explaining to his allies about overthrowing the republic..but he help build the clone army to defend the republic? ....
Dooku was "playing" the Seperatists (including the Trade Federation) just to trick them into building another droid army, to supplement the Clone army. It's pretty obvious that the Clone army - originally ordered for use by the Jedi - later become usurped by Palpatine, and MUCH later take the form of Storm Troopers. Neither Dooku nor Sidious really cared much that some of each of their future armies would get killed fighting each other in the AOTC battle.
Originally posted by Perniciosus
... Dooku's limited lines in AotC where he states that the Senate is under the control of the Dark Lords of the Sith. Dooku goes so far as to talk about Darth Sidious being aligned with the Trade Federation's Viceroy during the happenings that made up TPM.
Originally posted by Naphtali
Now [Dooku] is likely trying to entrap sidious by slickly warning the jedi, thus to help himself beomce the new leader of the sith, leader of a new dictatorship, ...
I think Dooku WAS ACTUALLY trying to seduce Obi-wan in this moment, and so Dooku gave him some true "inside" info (hehe, reminded me of Saruman seducing Gandalf - showing him "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em," AND much like the Emperor tries to seduce Luke.) Yes, even though Dooku was "working for" Sidious, the way of the Sith is that there can only be two, always battling for the top spot, (or is this just "Expanded Universe" talk - therefore not "canonized"?) so it's possible Tyrannus/Dooku had his own plans to overthrow Sidious/Palpatine.
Originally posted by dorain8
did anyone else notice papatne was rather pale in this movie
Yup! I totally did! As well as his being rather "sharp" and almost snide with everyone, not as goofily polite as in Ep1.
Originally posted by Cobalt60
perhaps "Chancellor" Palpatine is a shapeshifter/changeling who is working for Sidious.
(why do you think they made a such big deal of introducing 'changelings' into the StarWars universe, with that female bounty hunter in the beginning of the film? the fact that she was a changeling served no dramatic purpose to the plot of Ep2. but this will serve a dramatic purpose in Ep3 , as we realise that NOBODY is who they seem to be)
Good point, Cobalt! The majority of viewers probably aren't like the rest of us who've seen the inside of the expanded universe. They may need "prepping" for the idea of shapeshifters in the StarWars galaxy.
Originally posted by Nebelwerfer_
...why not just think that palpatine was a clone of sidious who is gaining power and just when he has enough power sidious will "dismiss" the clone palpatine and take over the position of chansellor of the senate and become emperor.
Wow! That does make sense! Except that I think Palpatine doesn't NEED to be replaced by Sidious; his nasty character is already coming out, and it's clear even from Ep1 that he had his eye on Anakin - who later become Emperor Palpatine's underling.
my turn!
i believe that the clone war is to give palpatine power and he will act as the mediator and united republic and separitis. Thus creating the empire.. Somewhere along the way, a groups of people suspicious with palpatine, break off and become the rebellion.
Now, the most difficult thing, Palpatine has the apprentice maul.
Maul dies.
Yoda trained Dooku.
Therefore, Palpatine is not dooku master, yoda is,but Dooku is seduced by the dark side and becomes a sith. NOT AN APPRENTICE.
Dooku is the leader of the separitists and palpatine is the leader of the republic. They work together to benefit palpatine.
Syfo Dias(ummm...spelling) was a jedi master on the council.
dies nearly 10 years ago.(ep.1)
most likely dias is killed by dooku and uses his name to built the army.
Now as for dooku telling obi wan that there is a sith lord controlling the republic, it is to throw them off course and begin to turn on themselves. Also, it is to make palpatine innocent so no one suspects him of being the sith lord.
IMO, i think i figured it out!
What happens in Episode II is all part of Palpatine/Sidious' plan, I believe.
I like the theory that after Episode I, Dooku (Tyrannus) became Sidious' apprentice, killed Sipha Dias and used Jango to create the clone army. The reason Jango works for the clones and for the droid army could either be that 1. He's a bounty hunter :p or 2. It's all part of Sidious' ultimate plan to rule the galaxy. Everything is a front the Palpatine is using to fool the Jedi, the Senate and the citizens. He sent Dooku to make this seperatist movement as a way to gain more power for himself, to use this army and crush the "threat", and it's working perfectly in Episode II. He has his enemies helping Dooku and the fake seperatist movement, and his enemies the Jedi helping the clone army. When he feels the time is right, he'll turn on everyone and crush them beneath his boot, becoming the emperor :p
Just to prove the point that Sidious is using the Seperatists as a front, this is taken from the script:
DARTH SIDIOUS
Welcome home, Lord Tyranus. You have done well.
COUNT DOOKU
I bring you good news, my Lord. The war has begun.
DARTH SIDIOUS
Excellent. (smiling) Everything is going as planned.