Hello, I hope someone here's still active.

The circumstances are:
-I don't have 3DS Max or Softimage XSI (it's expensive).
-I've finished my model, but I can't line it up to the bones and all since I have Gmax.
-People make models all the time, I just want my bird ingame even though its anatomy might not be physically logical from a scientist's point of view!
-Being this bird creature in game would be the biggest dream come true I can imagine... in... computer land.

I would be very forever grateful if someone could simply take my model (I don't know in what form), and very quickly make it fit on the skeleton, do any last minute scaling and make it work with JK2. Doesn't matter if it looks ridiculous or if it violates ethical FPS values (what I mean is: if it takes too long to do that LOD stuff, it might just be simple enough to work without?).

I'm asking because I've tried to do it myself before, with a different more primitive model and it was a horror - no explanation explained it and it was a billion lost plugins from the depths of the internet, a billion wrong versions of 3DS max.. and now I just... well I don't have 3DS max, and it must somehow be possible to get a model into JK2 these days too. Could someone help? Or point towards someone or someplace that could?
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7454/thebird.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/thebird.jpg/)

There is a free legal variant of Softimage that can get models in game. Check jk2files.com forums in the modding section in the stickies. They have guides that should help you out.

I've downloaded a bunch of stuff, including ModTool 7.5, using a mixture of these two tutorials/informers http://forums.filefront.com/sw-jk3-modding-mapping-editing/419013-xsi-mod-tool-jo-ja-skeleton-bones-tags-compiling-guide.html)

and http://psyko3d.50webs.com/tutorials/jk2_guide.htm)

and Tim Appleby's tutorial. None of them explains how to use Softimage Mod Tool unfortunately, so I'll see how that goes.

Question: Are caps needed (as in they won't work without) or can I get a working first-model without bothering with off-choppable limbs? I understand that you need to segment up your model, but filling in the gaps in the holes and naming them specific things? Is that necessary for it to run in game?

I'm focusing on just creating some boxes for a model at first, to confirm that it's possible to get it in game - then I'll create/re-create/import an actual model.

No, you do not need caps for the model to work.

Okay! I have run into the lhang_tag_bone problem, it wouldn't compile even after I renamed it to lhand_tag_bone. No bone or mesh moves along with it when I move it, it was never included in any weighting process (no tutorial told me to..). I tried simply adding it to the left hand without influencing any vertices (it had absolutely no weight values in that list thing), and I'm using the JO humanoid file. But "lhand_tag_bone" was not found when using Assimilate. I've seen and tried to learn from others with this problem, but to no use. It's a stick figure model, just to learn the trade.

Do you have an idea?

-If you are using the correct skeleton, you should not rename any bones. If you did, change them back to their original name. (it should in fact be lhang_tag_bone and not lhand) lhand_ is used for Jedi Academy only.

-Do not assign any vertex weight to that bone.

-Locate the "bolt_l_hand" tag, this tag should not be weighted to lhang_tag_bone, if it is, remove the bone from the list and use the "lhand" bone instead

Try that and see if that fixes the issue.

LOL it works :D

Thank you so much! The character animates and deforms perfectly! Brilliant. Now, I'll try to make the bird. Thanks again!

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/1825/shot0001kp.jpg)

No problem, congrats on your first! :)

I've got my bird in. But there's one problem I don't see in any other models, but which is there in my models, and it's really logical too.

Since you're required to segment your model, there is really no correspondance between the arm and the torso, for example, or the hand and the arm. When detaching the parts in the editor, they hang together, but obviously when they animate in JK2, they won't know that they're supposed to move together, since they're seperate. At least, in JK2 I get these holes between all the seperate body parts, since it animates.

How does one fix this? :eek:

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5781/shot0002yt.jpg)

There should be correspondance between all of you meshes, i mean if you modeled your character as one piece. The thing is, you need to distribute your weights the same way you did to the other corresponding part.

The logical thing to do would be to weight the model before it's segmented (you probably read otherwise in my tutorials, but i found out this neat little trick after my modding days were over):

Once your weights are correct, you'd duplicate the model and detach each limb, next you would take the skin modifier of the "one piece model" and copy / paste it to each segmented limbs. When you're done, you can simply delete the original mesh model. If that makes sense.

Hey, wasn't able to try this until now. But anyway, it's driving me nuts and flowers.

After weighting the one piece model, I duplicate it (and delete the skin modifier that was duplicated along with it), and I detach and rename body parts. When I paste the skin modifier of the one piece model, each body parts snaps into the approximate position of where it was duplicated from - except the head. The head goes batpoop insane and places itself wherever it likes around the workspace. I can't move it back into place, because when I do that and finally get it near where it should be... it snaps back to the same or some other random place far away once I deselect the head, or the skin modifier. This MIGHT have to do with a possible change of pivot point long before pasting the skin modifier... but I'm not sure if I did.
Anyway, so the head refuses to be placed.

So the difference between this, and what I did before, is that every body part each has all the bones in the body in the bone list? I guess that's what happens if you copy the skin modifier of the whole body and paste it on each limb.

I can try going to an earlier save of the project and see if it behaves the same... but if there's an obvious reason why this is happening, I'd be glad to hear, if you know :D

Update (still a problem): Redid it without changing the pivot point. The different body parts line up perfectly in proportion with each other, like they're supposed to, but I still can't move the body. If I delete the one-piece model, and move the new parts in instead, each body part snaps back into its old position when I click it. So if I click all the body parts once, the whole body just moves to the old location.

Note: In the Modify panel, the body parts display at a different location when activating and deactivating the skin modifier. For example if I click "Editable poly" and not "Skin", the body part will move a bit to the right. When I deselect Editable poly, it snaps back onto the body since Skin now is selected.

One option could be to move the skeleton into the new position of the body, but I have the feeling something's fundamentally not in order... any clues?

Hard to tell without having the file but...

-Did you apply a reset x-form to your meshes before doing the weights?

-Having all bones in the skin modifier won't be a problem, only the bones needed will be used

-When you copy the skin modifier make sure it's a copy and not an instance

-NEVER move the bones of the skeleton from their original position
(when you have to check weights by moving bones around, use angle snap, it will rotate by 5 degree increments, so it's easy to put them back into place)

Here's how to reset xform your meshes:
http://psyko3d.50webs.com/tutorials/skinwrap.html)

Read the first step.

EDIT: Instead of deleting the skin modifier on your cloned mesh, keep it, go in editable poly sub-object mode, select the portion of the mesh you want to detach, and then use "invert selected" and hit delete. Do this for each limb, remember to name each part correctly. Also remember to deselect any verts, edges or polygons you might have selected while in editable poly, if you leave a selection it "turns off" the skin modifier.

Hmm, well so far in the process:

Deleted the duplicate model, deleted the skin modifier on the one-piece model. Reset X-form. Something happens...

Before: http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9908/beforeq.jpg)

After: http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5717/afterim.jpg)

Apparently a bunch of hip bolts have now moved outside the body.


Still though, even I haven't gotten that far, having all the bones in all the skin modifiers... isn't only max 4 bones allowed in each skin modifier? In a previous attempt to make a glm out of it, it told me it couldn't have more than 4 bones in each list. I think also Tim Appleby said that.

The bolts should not be doing that, they have their own skin modifier and are already weighted corectly, don't modify or delete their skin modifier, if you are using my JA skeleton of course.

If you have linked the bolts to your mesh already, DON'T!, you should not use reset xform when meshes or bolts have been linked together. Select your character model and hit unlink first.

To clarify on bones limit, "each VERTEX can only be deformed by 4 bones" not a limit in how many bones are in the modifier list. If you want to prevent this from happening, there's a section in the skin modifier where you can type-in the max influence (i think they set it to 20 by default...idiots!) so put 4 in there.

In that first screenshot i can see the bounding box around the mesh is all screwed up (the white bounding box) it looks right on the 2nd screenshot...so the xform has been fixed.

Went fine after unlinking everything.

But should I collapse a reset xform modifier? Because if I select Editable poly, the body flips sideways and into a strange position, because of the Xform not being selected. And I have to select editable poly to detach parts etc. I suspect this potential problem sustains even after weighting the model, which I haven't redone yet. After resetting the xform, the xform box surrounding the model (not the white bounding box) is a bit strange. Positioned weirdly.

After unlinking and doing an xform reset: http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg46/scaled.php?server=46&filename=xform1.jpg&res=medium)

How it looks in the Modify panel: http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg31/scaled.php?server=31&filename=xform2.jpg&res=medium)

What happens if you disable Xform: http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg35/scaled.php?server=35&filename=xform3.jpg&res=medium)

Yes, collapse xform before messing around with anything else!

Yes! It works! Thank you again :)

It's almost perfect, and I think I know what's wrong with the parts that went wrong. Hehehe the beak subtly follows the body's general movement, it's hilarious. If I hit to the sides, the beak sort of deforms a bit to those sides. If I crouch, the beak arches a bit down like an eagle. There's also a little strange bump on the back. I suspect it just has to do with some weighting that have gone a bit out of proportion.

Anyway, I consider myself a temporarily knower of the trade, which is what I was looking for :) Thanks. *bows deeply for now*

Excellent!

Just check for unwanted bones deforming the problem areas, and fix the weights, it's difficult to always have it perfect on first try, but you're almost there!

I've fixed it now :) Looks nice. Learning how to skin and texture now. I've got some results so far. But, do you know what to do if I want one jpg file for just the face and another jpg file for the beak and back head and so on? I could map it out in one jpg file but it becomes so small and undefined.. very pixelish. I haven't used more than 512x512 yet though... I dunno if I should use very big resolutions.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5755/shot0004xp.jpg)

Hehehe just a first test... the beak yellow goes too far, and only used 3 colors so far, just to test.

But yeah. Mapping the entire head is a bit much in one jpg file, I think, because of the beak and so on. Would I have to make extra segments and stuff?

I'm wondering because in 3ds max, I can only apply one texture to the whole head (including the beak, unless it was separate). I'd just like to let one texture give information about the face, and another about the rest of the head.

And just one more question... since the left and right tarsal bone isn't really there, that bone isn't there to animate the tip of the foot. Is it supposed to be that way for JK2? To make it correct ingame, I would have to position it in another way than the skeleton is. Same goes for the fingers. I tried modeling around the skelton fingers, but it ended up sticking out the same weird directions in game, so I'll have to try to change the position until it looks alright in game. Any suggestions for this? It's just a tiny detail :)

Actually, with your help so far, I managed to make a long video tutorial on youtube (primarily for a friend, but I acted as if people generally should be interested in making a model for JK2) for getting a model into JK2. Very clumsy, but should help people who have trouble with the written guides, and it includes the information you've given here, which is not in those guides.

I am now creating a much better and more proper duck! http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9008/duckz.jpg)