I know some have been throwing in their ideas in other threads about how Starkiller could have survived, but I thought we should have a thread to actually debate the matter.
So what do you think? Was he actually still alive some how? Did he use some sort of ancient Force Power(essence transfer), or perhaps a new found power? What if Vader lied about him being dead, used the force to conceal his life through the force, and salvaged him once again?
I think Vader could have been masking Starkiller's life from the emperor so that he could try his hand again at claiming the Mantle of Dark Lord. Vader's quotes from the new game trailer maybe some what of a hint.
I'd like to also share that on wookiepedia there has been a small discussion that Starkiller is in fact dead, and the place we see him in in the trailer is the Netherworld.
Yeah I don't think Starkiller is dead. I mean what would the point be in setting a Star Wars game outside of the Star Wars universe? It's probable that the Emperor himself may have tried to revive and reshape Galen himself. Palpatine is obviously disappointed with Vader and knows that he is considering betraying him in the near future. Until Luke Skywalker is revealed to him, Palpatine's best chance of a successor as his apprentice lies in Galen "Starkiller" Marek.
With his power, I imagine he used the force to keep him alive.
And a netherworld definitely doesn't look like an Arena.
Also, it would be a sucky game if you know you're dead with no way of return. Bit of anti-climactic.
I think its either Vader like you said yourself.
However, it wouldn't explain why he's fighting in an (not Imperial controlled) Arena. Every Jedi would be shot on sight under Palpatine's or Vader's command. And since it's obviously a continuation of the LS ending, Marek IS a Jedi.
I hope it's set at 12 aby or something. With 14-15 years passed since the last one. Marek would be early 30's and Luke would be searching every corner of the galaxy for Jedi students after the 'second' death of Palpatine. Maybe Marek can help Luke before Luke starts training Corran Horn and Kyle Katarn? Marek can die/disappear before that and re-emerge in the Vong War for a TFU3.
How else can they entwine this into the already crowded EU from 20bby-0bby?
And a netherworld definitely doesn't look like an Arena.
Also, it would be a sucky game if you know you're dead with no way of return. Bit of anti-climactic.
Good Point
I think its either Vader like you said yourself.
However, it wouldn't explain why he's fighting in an (not Imperial controlled) Arena. Every Jedi would be shot on sight under Palpatine's or Vader's command. And since it's obviously a continuation of the LS ending, Marek IS a Jedi.
It could be on a planet that the Empire would not bother going to. If you were Palpatine would you want a arena fighting Jedi dead, or would you leave him alone thinking that eventually his fate will come?
I hope it's set at 12 aby or something. With 14-15 years passed since the last one. Marek would be early 30's and Luke would be searching every corner of the galaxy for Jedi students after the 'second' death of Palpatine. Maybe Marek can help Luke before Luke starts training Corran Horn and Kyle Katarn? Marek can die/disappear before that and re-emerge in the Vong War for a TFU3.
How else can they entwine this into the already crowded EU from 20bby-0bby?
It was already stated at the announcement that TFU2 will still be between Episodes 3 and 4.
eeeer, i just thought- if we could have starkiller just quietly escape somewhere, from DS........
Would be AWESOME! :p like u know, the jedi Kota escaped to nar shadaa (And he was blind, lol)- and starkiller is Younger, AND we didnt notice any wounds on him- so why not?
I am going with that its a clone, its got different injury's, no burn marks from being fried by palpatine. My dream would be he's a clone in say 30 aby or 40 aby or 130 aby. A legacy game would be fun.
Judging by his armor-suit its not imperial (it would have looked more gray-evil-communist) its not vader (would have looked more crude), its not the rebels (would have looked like 20 years old and have rebel inertia's all over it). So the big question is were is he?
i think it would be reeeeeally stupid for him to suddenly wake up and escape after vader and palps left,i would prefer some mystical explanation,which i have no idea at this point what it would be like,but something...
very vague i know lol
First off, the apprentice didn't survive the first game. He died. He died in the game, and he died in the novel. Palpatine killed him, causing him to die. After he died, he was dead as a direct result of being killed. The real question is how he is alive again.
I personally think that it should be a clone, because I think it's the most plausible in-universe explanation. I can't fathom a reason for Vader or Sidious bringing him back to life (even if they could), and they're the only people whom anyone would ever have any reason to believe could or would. However, I wouldn't put it past Sidious cloning him as some kind of experiment (since the clone wouldn't have any reason at first to disobey him) and having it go wrong somehow.
I am going with that its a cloneI seriously doubt the clone theory that some are throwing out. Guess we'll find out soon enough if I'm right or not.
Besides, his mind is too complicated to be someone new. You have to grow him and such. He also has a memory of Juno when she asked if she would ever see him again on the Death Star. Those should be red flags right there that this is not a clone.
no burn marks from being fried by palpatine.Starkiller had no marks when we see his dead body, so what makes you think there should be now?
First off, the apprentice didn't survive the first game. He died. He died in the game, and he died in the novel. Palpatine killed him, causing him to die. After he died, he was dead as a direct result of being killed.
hehehe
First off, the apprentice didn't survive the first game. He died. He died in the game, and he died in the novel. Palpatine killed him, causing him to die. After he died, he was dead as a direct result of being killed. The real question is how he is alive again.
I personally think that it should be a clone, because I think it's the most plausible in-universe explanation. I can't fathom a reason for Vader or Sidious bringing him back to life (even if they could), and they're the only people whom anyone would ever have any reason to believe could or would. However, I wouldn't put it past Sidious cloning him as some kind of experiment (since the clone wouldn't have any reason at first to disobey him) and having it go wrong somehow.
http://www.lucasforums.com/picture.php?albumid=339&pictureid=5539)
I have been thinking about this ever since i saw the trailer how the heck are they going to do this? He died. I mean dont get me wrong TFU 2 heck yeah! But how??????????? I seriously am really looking forward to how they're going to play this out.
I have been thinking about this ever since i saw the trailer how the heck are they going to do this? He died. I mean dont get me wrong TFU 2 heck yeah! But how??????????? I seriously am really looking forward to how they're going to play this out.It's simple. They retract the fact that he died. It now becomes an assumption made by both Vader and Sidious or something. The query is how it will play out, but we'll find out before the year is finished.
I personally think that it should be a clone, because I think it's the most plausible in-universe explanation. I can't fathom a reason for Vader or Sidious bringing him back to life (even if they could), and they're the only people whom anyone would ever have any reason to believe could or would. However, I wouldn't put it past Sidious cloning him as some kind of experiment (since the clone wouldn't have any reason at first to disobey him) and having it go wrong somehow.
Will they do "a spiderman" though?
The clone isn't really a clone but instead he is the real thing,the one that passed on the deathstar was the clone...
Probably not(i hope so at least),given the bashing spiderman took for it.
The clone isn't really a clone but instead he is the real thing,the one that passed on the deathstar was the clone...
How could that possibly make any sense?
it doesn't
just like clone saga spiderman...
Star Wars has been cloned to death, and I've had quite enough of it already. And it didn't start with the prequels; the Expanded Universe has been doing the evil clone thing for years, from Dark Empire to the Thrawn trilogy.
The point being: Enough damn clones! It's been done to death!
It's simple. They retract the fact that he died. It now becomes an assumption made by both Vader and Sidious or something. The query is how it will play out, but we'll find out before the year is finished.
Yeah i definitely agree with you on that. That's the only thing that's driving me crazy is how they're going to play it out but i guess well have to wait and see.
The point being: Enough damn clones! It's been done to death!I'm in total agreement there and I strongly believe they're not even going to touch that as it will turn off many of the game's fans.
It's like I said, the thoughts in Starkiller's head in the trailer are way too complicated for him to be a new person, cloned in the image of Starkiller. Then the fact that he remembers Juno and her query about seeing each other again should have been enough of a hint for others out there to stay away from it. That was one of the last things Juno says to him.
The thing people should be wondering IMO is how Yoda could possibly play a role in this. It's hard to believe that they just threw in Yoda's voice talking to Starkiller just for spite. Then think about how Yoda's teachings and Vader's statements are conflicting Starkiller's mind. Well, maybe not in this thread since this is about Starkiller being alive, but still...
I'm in total agreement there and I strongly believe they're not even going to touch that as it will turn off many of the game's fans.
It's like I said, the thoughts in Starkiller's head in the trailer are way too complicated for him to be a new person, cloned in the image of Starkiller. Then the fact that he remembers Juno and her query about seeing each other again should have been enough of a hint for others out there to stay away from it. That was one of the last things Juno says to him.
The thing people should be wondering IMO is how Yoda could possibly play a role in this. It's hard to believe that they just threw in Yoda's voice talking to Starkiller just for spite. Then think about how Yoda's teachings and Vader's statements are conflicting Starkiller's mind. Well, maybe not in this thread since this is about Starkiller being alive, but still...
Dude you are on it i am 100 percent with you on that. You should start a new thread and talk about this but then again i guess thats what i was trying to do with mine to when i put interpreting the trailer and storyline. EVERYBODY OVER TO MY THREAD NOW! lol. Shem im gonna talk to you more you know what you're talking about
The point being: Enough damn clones! It's been done to death!
It's still better than him coming back to life.
It's like I said, the thoughts in Starkiller's head in the trailer are way too complicated for him to be a new person, cloned in the image of Starkiller. Then the fact that he remembers Juno and her query about seeing each other again should have been enough of a hint for others out there to stay away from it.
Nonsense; the clone option is just as plausible. All they'd have to do is throw in some mention about "residual genetic memories" (which have been demonstrated before in Star Wars), and that'd be that.
Still, I wouldn't be surprised if they went with the resurrection option. After all, LucasArts specializes in bogus ideas; a few concepts that were proposed for TFU 1 included the player being sent by Vader to look for Darth Plagueis in order to help him bring Padme back to life, having the player be instructed by Qui-Gon Jinn's ghost, and the secret apprentice being none other than Plagueis himself. Compared to those things, the apprentice just coming back to life is grounded very firmly in terms of plausibility.
It's still better than him coming back to life.
No, it isn't. Seriously.
No, it isn't. Seriously.
Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't mind seeing Starkiller alive, honestly. I thought his character/personality was quite intriguing.
Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't mind seeing Starkiller alive, honestly. I thought his character/personality was quite intriguing.
I second that. The clone idea is stupid, no offense, and i definitely agree that i wouldn't mind seeing starkiller back it wouldnt be the same without him he was a very intriguing and interesting character.
I've been thinking it could be something to do with the Jedi Masters he killed in t he game. Maybe as he lays dying on the floor after Palpatine fried him they spoke to him in a vision and told him how to come back or something like that?
Yeah that probably sounds a bit daft, but anything's better than clones. >_<
i think that maybe Proxy having access to the imperial computing network has "hacked" into the IMP network and used a medical drone as the one that Vader used to rescue Malek just before resurrecting him. So i a way this is very plausible that Malek was rescued by his robot after Vader and Palpatine disposed his corpse as a garbage. That would make sense.
No, it isn't. Seriously.
If they wanted him alive for a sequel, then they shouldn't have killed him in the first place.
I second that. The clone idea is stupid, no offense, and i definitely agree that i wouldn't mind seeing starkiller back it wouldnt be the same without him he was a very intriguing and interesting character.
I agree that cloning him is stupid, but I maintain that it is the least stupid (because it doesn't make the first game's ending a total copout) and most plausible (because every element of it has been done before in the canon) option.
Nonsense; the clone option is just as plausible. All they'd have to do is throw in some mention about "residual genetic memories" (which have been demonstrated before in Star Wars), and that'd be that.You just complicated the story. You now have to explain how it came about. I mean you are seriously going with the idea that cloning Starkiller was planned because they knew what would happen with him, even though the Emperor looked at him as Vader's future replacement.
Then you have to grow him and train him pretty early on. I mean finding another person to do that would be easier than cloning someone to try to be like someone. To program memories.
You're also talking that Palpatine didn't have plans to use him as his future apprentice which was revealed he did.
Then not only did you start this clone off early when Starkiller was a young kid, you grow him, train him, program him with memories; you then send him off to wonder the galaxy wondering what he should be doing with this complicated thoughts. What is the point of that?
Oh, and if you're still going with the programmed memories, how did they get Juno's quotes since they weren't there for that? Especially one we heard her say to Starkiller right before he leaped into the Death Star. Are you still seriously suggesting that? Because if you are, you're going to really have to complicate the story more.
but I maintain that it is the least stupid (because it doesn't make the first game's ending a total copout) and most plausibleStill think it's the most plausible now?
I just thought of another theory, what if Proxy was repaired before Marek went to the Death Star and Proxy went in place of Marek? After all Proxy was trained to use lightsabers, all though he could not use force powers. But in the end it could have been Proxy that was portrayed as Marek dying!
You just complicated the story. You now have to explain how it came about. I mean you are seriously going with the idea that cloning Starkiller was planned because they knew what would happen with him, even though the Emperor looked at him as Vader's future replacement.
Then you have to grow him and train him pretty early on. I mean finding another person to do that would be easier than cloning someone to try to be like someone. To program memories.
You're also talking that Palpatine didn't have plans to use him as his future apprentice which was revealed he did.
Then not only did you start this clone off early when Starkiller was a young kid, you grow him, train him, program him with memories; you then send him off to wonder the galaxy wondering what he should be doing with this complicated thoughts. What is the point of that?
Oh, and if you're still going with the programmed memories, how did they get Juno's quotes since they weren't there for that? Especially one we heard her say to Starkiller right before he leaped into the Death Star. Are you still seriously suggesting that? Because if you are, you're going to really have to complicate the story more.
Still think it's the most plausible now?
BURN!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHA ok im sorry guys i just had to say it. Im starting a new thread so we can talk about how yoda will be in the game that will be more interesting to talk about.
I just thought of another theory, what if Proxy was repaired before Marek went to the Death Star and Proxy went in place of Marek? After all Proxy was trained to use lightsabers, all though he could not use force powers. But in the end it could have been Proxy that was portrayed as Marek dying!Then that was a very quick repair. Besides you're actually going to go with that Proxy kissed Juno instead of Starkiller? What would be the point of that because Juno would obviously be in on it.
And that it was PROXY's spirit that floated up into space postmortem in the novel? ;)
:argh: I'm not thinking, lol!
How could that possibly make any sense?
It actually makes alot of sense, starkiller posssibly knew he was going to be killed so he went to kamino to make a clone of himself, the clone died on the death star, problem solved so starkiller could go into hiding or whatever.:thmbup1:
God, please stop the clone talk. This isn't Power Rangers.
It actually makes alot of sense, starkiller posssibly knew he was going to be killed so he went to kamino to make a clone of himself, the clone died on the death star, problem solved so starkiller could go into hiding or whatever.:thmbup1:
:migraine:
I really hope you're joking...
God, please stop the clone talk. This isn't Power Rangers.
And you have never heard of clones in star wars :rolleyes:
Wasn't he brought back to life once already though, Darth brought him back after his "betrayal."
Why is it so hard to assume it happens again?
And you have never heard of clones in star wars :rolleyes:
. . . Did you listen to anything I've been saying? Oh my God, what the crap is wrong with you! :rolleyes:
[Edit] In fact, here. In case you're too lazy to scroll up:
Star Wars has been cloned to death, and I've had quite enough of it already. And it didn't start with the prequels; the Expanded Universe has been doing the evil clone thing for years, from Dark Empire to the Thrawn trilogy.
The point being: Enough damn clones! It's been done to death!
Learn to pay attention and not be such a noob.
You just complicated the story. You now have to explain how it came about. I mean you are seriously going with the idea that cloning Starkiller was planned because they knew what would happen with him, even though the Emperor looked at him as Vader's future replacement.
It's not my responsibility to come up with the why for him being cloned by someone (presumably he would be cloned after his death, but that's neither here nor there). I'm merely pointing out that it is possible and more probable than him being resurrected (something which is relatively rare in-universe, compared to cloning).
Then you have to grow him and train him pretty early on.
They have accelerated clone growth in-universe. As for training, that's tied to the "why" question.
To program memories.
An ARC Trooper (called "Spar", featured in two Karen Traviss novels and a few other EU sources) in the clone army got Jango Fett's memories by accident. It wouldn't be a stretch for a clone of Vader's apprentice to get memories somehow as well (it doesn't have to be deliberate; I'm just pointing out that it's not implausible).
You're also talking that Palpatine didn't have plans to use him as his future apprentice which was revealed he did.
Where did I say that? Again, this is related to the why question, and I never intended to address the why, and as I stated above, in all likelihood if he was going to be cloned, it would be after his death.
Then not only did you start this clone off early when Starkiller was a young kid, you grow him, train him, program him with memories; you then send him off to wonder the galaxy wondering what he should be doing with this complicated thoughts. What is the point of that?
There are too many presumptions in this line of thought. You are presuming that Starkiller being cloned means that Palpatine has to be the one who did it (though he is the most likely person), that residual memories from the original Starkiller had to have been programmed (when even elsewhere in the canon it has been demonstrated that they don't need to be programmed in order to occur), and that he would be sent by the Emperor for no apparent reason on a mission with no objectives or purpose. I'm not trying to explain anything close to the whole story; I'm only highlighting what I consider to be the most plausible explanation for Starkiller being back.
Oh, and if you're still going with the programmed memories, how did they get Juno's quotes since they weren't there for that?
Because, as the condition you refer to in this sentence (the underlined portion) dictates, he somehow possesses the original's memories.
I'm banking on him not being a clone simply because it'd be an awfully awkward plot for him to be cloned and then given his previous memories. It's the same effect as bringing him back to life but feels even more contrived. (Don't get me wrong, bringing him back to life is obviously a contrived way of making a sequel.) And Karen Travis's contributions to canon are among the poorest, so I really don't want to use her as a standard for what sort of thing should go on (whether or not it can.)
It actually makes alot of sense, starkiller posssibly knew he was going to be killed so he went to kamino to make a clone of himself, the clone died on the death star, problem solved so starkiller could go into hiding or whatever.:thmbup1:It takes time to grow clones you know. He would then have to train him and that would take years. Please think things through before you present them.
And you have never heard of clones in star wars :rolleyes:Of course people have heard of them. It's when they're all of a sudden thrust when people don't think things through is what the problem is.
It's not my responsibility to come up with the why for him being cloned by someone (presumably he would be cloned after his death, but that's neither here nor there).After his death? Okay, TFU II is still before ANH. Are you really seriously suggesting that as a possibility?
I'm merely pointing out that it is possible and more probable than him being resurrected (something which is relatively rare in-universe, compared to cloning).Did it ever occur to you that Starkiller never really died and that he was presumed dead? That's not resurrection.
They have accelerated clone growth in-universe. As for training, that's tied to the "why" question.That is not it. I'm point out the flaws in the idea of cloning Starkiller.
An ARC Trooper (called "Spar", featured in two Karen Traviss novels and a few other EU sources) in the clone army got Jango Fett's memories by accident. It wouldn't be a stretch for a clone of Vader's apprentice to get memories somehow as well (it doesn't have to be deliberate; I'm just pointing out that it's not implausible).I see the Multiplicity movie factor being played, but if that is the case, the memories would be at the moment of cloning. Not after.
Where did I say that? Again, this is related to the why question, and I never intended to address the why, and as I stated above, in all likelihood if he was going to be cloned, it would be after his death.So you're saying that within a 1 to 2 year time period, he was able to grow up, then trained to be as powerful as he was before, which did take well over a decade before. Are you really going to go with that?
I have already contradicted every aspect of your clone theory. If I can do that, don't you think that means it won't happen that way? Think about it!
After his death? Okay, TFU II is still before ANH. Are you really seriously suggesting that as a possibility?
Not exactly a possibility. My gut says that they're going to bring him back to life, so I'd say it's more of an option that I wouldn't put past LucasArts.
Did it ever occur to you that Starkiller never really died and that he was presumed dead? That's not resurrection.
Of course it occurred to me. I looked over it and decided that that idea is absolutely bogus, because even if you believe that he survived that explosion at the end based on the fact that he has no visible wounds in the game (and assume that Vader and Palpatine are ****ing morons), we still have the novel (which is just as canon as the game) spelling out in no uncertain terms that the apprentice, regardless of what happens to him later, died. Even if the game leaves it ambiguous, the novel fills in the gap.
I see the Multiplicity movie factor being played, but if that is the case, the memories would be at the moment of cloning. Not after.
Even if that was an established in-universe law of cloning, LA could use any number of methods to ignore or neutralize such a rule.
So you're saying that within a 1 to 2 year time period, he was able to grow up, then trained to be as powerful as he was before, which did take well over a decade before. Are you really going to go with that?
I don't see any reason to believe that he would be as powerful or skilled as his original self was. As for the growth speed, that wouldn't be a problem for LA to explain, what with crazily-fast cloning cylinders from the Thrawn trilogy, and the like. There's also Sith magic/alchemy, which they could use as a handwaving device for how he grows so fast without going bat**** insane, while retaining his Force sensitivity, and so on (Sith magic can do pretty much anything the writers want it to; it's a very versatile plot device).
I have already contradicted every aspect of your clone theory. If I can do that, don't you think that means it won't happen that way? Think about it!
I don't see how your ability to say that my theory is wrong changes any of it. Besides, there is no doubt in my mind that LA will go with the resurrection option, because it's simpler than the cloning one and I don't think that LA (even at its worst) would expect anyone to believe that Vader and Palpatine just didn't notice that he was still alive. I still maintain that while every explanation for his return is less than desirabe, the cloning explanation is the least implausible, and that's why I'd prefer it. Of course, I don't expect it to happen the way I think it should at all (for starters, I don't think the apprentice should be brought back in the first place). What I'm arguing is that if LA wanted to, the cloning option would work at least as well as any other explanation: hardly great, but could be worse.
The clone thing is a bad idea but what other options are there? Unless he is so powerful he brought himself back to life but that seems unlikely does it not? We're just gonna have to wait for it to come out and have a rational explanation
The clone thing is a bad idea but what other options are there? Unless he is so powerful he brought himself back to life but that seems unlikely does it not? We're just gonna have to wait for it to come out and have a rational explanation
I agree,it's the lesser of 2 evils.
I surely like it better than the "Omg!!! he's still alive" thing
He came back to Life because TFU was the biggest selling SW game ever, Money>> Plausible Stories
But I'm sure he survived by not dieing in the first place, Star Wars is all about Relaunching/retcon/re-imagining atm
Wasn't he brought back to life once already though, Darth brought him back after his "betrayal."
Why is it so hard to assume it happens again?
Exactly. Great point.
Because Rahm Kota felt him become one with the force?
Bah; ultimately, it doesn't matter anyway. He "lives" because Lucas Arts was lazy and felt more like making a game with shiny graphics and implausibly large super rancor monsters that'd draw in cheap money than put in effort and make a game with a logical plot.