It's not like the moths said "hey look, the trees are covered in soot. Let's make black babies!"
Of course they didn't, that's stuff left for Harry Potter.
The moth issue was pure natural selection with two already existing variations in the population. The moths evolved, but they evolved before the environmental change, not after it. They were simply selected for after it.
The black moths weren't in London in my scenario, only the white ones were. If the black ones were around they would have died off because whites were better suited for the environment before the climate change.
What happened was all of a sudden the white moths are slowly dying due to the climate change and then,TA-DA! There is a genetic mutation which made one of the white moths black! "Holy Smokes!" Says all the white moths. "That black moth is my kinda man!". So the black moth ten reproduces with the white moths. He then passes along his black trait to his offspring and then... POOF! There are a few new black moths. The black moths reproduce and reproduce, while the white moths are being picked off by Crows faster then George Bush's eye-lids during a speech to the American Public. Pretty soon the black moth is like... "WTH, where did my parents and all the other white moths go?".
Then he forgets all about it and parties with his black moth brotheren.
The End
Your definition makes no distinction between adaptation and evolution. I reject it. :xp:
You're being stubborn xD
The black moths weren't in London in my scenario, only the white ones were. If the black ones were around they would have died off because whites were better suited for the environment before the climate change.Well that's not exactly how natural selection works. Natural selection doesn't automatically result in species extinction if they're less suited -- there would simply be far less in the population. They wouldn't all die.
And by the way, I was talking about real moths. ;)
You're being stubborn xDI'm not being stubborn, I'm being logical. :p
Of course biology is known for having 18 words for the exact same thing...
Well that's not exactly how natural selection works. Natural selection doesn't automatically result in species extinction if they're less suited -- there would simply be far less in the population. They wouldn't all die.
Of course it would take a while, I'm not saying it automatically happened.
http://www.rspb.org.uk/youth/learn/adaptation/how/index.asp)
That may help explain my point. Though it is a little children's website. hahah
And by the way, I was talking about real moths.
I was referencing to a real situation as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution)
I'm not being stubborn, I'm being logical. :p
Whatever you say. :)
there is clearly some considerable research going into the disproving of the theory of evolution.
Well, you could say same for any theory. Any.
I, sadly, didn't see even a word suggesting that they don't really conflict at all. (although, to be fair, that might be considered a seperate theory, it's gotten so emotional.) And we live in a world of idiots, one of which I do not deny to be.
Both of them need to be taught, obviously. As was said before, if there's such debate, the anwer is not clear, and students need to be told "Some people think this, other people think this, etc., but you need to decide for yourself." It almost makes me want to become a teacher just to put my two cents of sense into the education system.
What happened was all of a sudden the white moths are slowly dying due to the climate change and then,TA-DA! There is a genetic mutation which made one of the white moths black!
Seems like quite a coincidence, if you ask me.
Seems like quite a coincidence, if you ask me.
Indeed. Coincidences do happen. Obviously not frequently enough, since everyday 150 species go extinct.
Coinsidence? Not really, lets asume there is a 0.01% chance of a moth being born with a mutation turning it black. That makes it 1 in 10 000, moths are not exactly a threatened specie, so lets asume there are 100 000 (there is probably a lot more) moths. That makes 10 moths ready to prove their worth once the soot strikes.
Both of them need to be taught, obviously.
Not in science class, because one is science, the other isn't. It's really quite simple, one uses the scientific method, the other dosen't. I don't have anything against it being taught as a part of religion (a la: "many religious people believe...), but keep things that aren't science out of science class, m'kay?
Coinsidence? Not really, lets asume there is a 0.01% chance of a moth being born with a mutation turning it black. That makes it 1 in 10 000, moths are not exactly a threatened specie, so lets asume there are 100 000 (there is probably a lot more) moths. That makes 10 moths ready to prove their worth once the soot strikes.
I think he was meaning it was a coincidence that one would be produced at the time the soot struck. Also in my scenario there were no black moths before the soot. But it was just a simple scenario.
I get your point though.
The point I was trying to make was that there will be individuals with the mutation before it becomes usefull, theese tend to die young and fast until/unless the situation change. He seemed to think that those mutations didn't occur until it was needed.
You already claimed your scenario was real. It's either real or made up -- can't be both. If you're talking about a real scenario during the industrial revolution then there was already a small population of dark moths before the soot.
You already claimed your scenario was real. It's either real or made up -- can't be both. If you're talking about a real scenario during the industrial revolution then there was already a small population of dark moths before the soot.
My scenario is based on that event, not the event itself.
However, if you would like me to find you a better event/scenario I will...
Perhaps you'd enjoy the series (
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=potholer54) then. :)
Already a step ahead of ya. Watched most of them already :D
Silly Kirk Cameron
The point I was trying to make was that there will be individuals with the mutation before it becomes usefull, theese tend to die young and fast until/unless the situation change. He seemed to think that those mutations didn't occur until it was needed.
It seemed to be what you were implying. You said the White Moths were dying, and THEN there was a mutation. Obviously, having black moths beforehand and then the color ratios skewing, is a classic nearly textbook (as is was theoretical) example of evolution. Or adaption.