*Hardcovers ! ugh. hyper inflated price and dimensions - never again
I couldn't agree more with this one though :p

More news:
Get it dun yer neck! HD3870 XFire Vs 8800GT Sli with benchmarks!!! (http://en.expreview.com/?p=53)
And surprisingly (or maybe not to some) AMD has done remarkably well in making XFire actually worthwhile, and it's more energy-efficient than Sli and not even that much more compared to a single HD3870!!!
I still would have liked to see some benchies of a single high-end solution (2900XT or 8800GTX) in there to see how these lower cost dual-card rigs would stack up against the hugely expensive single-card solutions...

And more Micro$oft news too lolz:
XP SP3 pwns Vista SP1 (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/27/xp-beats-vista-performance)
"Still it is not all bad. Microsoft's biggest competition is still, er, Microsoft."
^ Amen to that, all the Vista bashing aside, I don't think M$ is crying because people would rather buy one of their OSes over another one, point is: people are buying it, probably faster than their accountants can count the cash that's coming in[/cynical mode]

And some Sony news that's not a sick joke for once:
Blu-Ray pwns HD-DVDs atm (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/27/blu-ray-outsells-hd-dvd)
Maybe the first good news Sony's heard in a while? I hope the Blu-Ray disc makes it though as I'm convinced it's the more superior format (IMO) and the sooner a winner is picked the sooner shops can get rid of having two separate sections in the HD media aisle lolz
Plus that means Sony gets some monies to develop some more good stuff cause the last thing we need is M$ gaining another monopoly in modern technology :xp:

And more Micro$oft news too lolz:
XP SP3 pwns Vista SP1 (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/27/xp-beats-vista-performance)
"Still it is not all bad. Microsoft's biggest competition is still, er, Microsoft."
^ Amen to that, all the Vista bashing aside, I don't think M$ is crying because people would rather buy one of their OSes over another one, point is: people are buying it, probably faster than their accountants can count the cash that's coming in[/cynical mode] It's good to hear that Windows XP SP3 will help improve performance. I hope it's not just an improvement for MS Office though. In any case, it's about time MS put out another service pack for Windows XP. It just annoys me to no end when I think of having to install Windows XP, then SP 2, and then having to download all the stinkin' patches that have come out since SP 2's release. IMHO MS shouldn't go for more than a 12-15 months without a service pack when they are releasing a high number of patches for the OS.

As far as Vista goes, the only reason I have to upgrade is to play DX 10 games. And since not a lot of DX 10 games have come out (that I'm interested in anyway) I'm not in any hurry. And from the looks of things not a whole lot of other people are in a hurry to make the switch to Vista either. :D

^ Couldn't agree more :)

Here's (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/29/amd-messed-christmas) an interesting article on the whole AMD vs Intel situation and what it means to us (the consumer) and what it might bring in the future...

GeForce 9 on the way? (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/30/nvidia-preparing-geforce)
I wouldn't bother too much about this though, but it would be nice to see a card that is capable of running Crysis and Flight Sim X at full blast...

Phenom X3's in February? (http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/601734/rumour-control-triple-core-amd-cpus-in-february-2008.html)
Let's hope AMD take some feedback on board of the early Phenom reviews and do some tweaking before releasing this one to the hounds...Not that the Phenom 9600 is bad or anything, but if it prices the Triple-cores correctly it might be decent competition against Intel's dual-core solutions in the low/mid-range CPU battle...

GeForce 9 on the way? (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/30/nvidia-preparing-geforce)
I wouldn't bother too much about this though, but it would be nice to see a card that is capable of running Crysis and Flight Sim X at full blast... What do you mean? DigiTimes is the original source for this info and they're pretty reliable, aren't they? Actually I've been hoping the GeForce 9 is in the works and would get released sometime next year so I really hope this turns out to be true. I did notice DigiTimes referred to this as D9E so I see the new NVIDIA naming convention (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9506) seems to be taking hold. I'll probably wait for the D9P to release before I decide which one to go with. I want a card that will be able to run games at 1080p with at least medium settings but also won't require me to install a new electrical circuit in my home. :p

I wasn't talking about the reliability of the article Char Ell, more about the whole concept in general ;)

The 8800 isn't quite on its last legs yet IMO, and introducing another range (unless it hardcore only) will only hinder themselves.

^^^
Oh, OK. But if the DigiTimes article (http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20071129PD216.html) is correct and NVIDIA will launch D9E, their top-of-the-line 9th generation GPU, in late February 2008 and the D9P, their midrange 9th generation GPU, in June 2008 then I personally think the 8800 only has a few months before it is eclipsed by NVIDIA's newest GPU. It's about time to retire my 7800 GTX but I'm going to wait until the D9P releases to see how it compares with the D9E, especially since it looks like D9P is supposed to drop down to a 55 nm process from D9P's 65 nm process. Of course this is all contingent on whether DigiTimes is accurately reporting this. ;)

Mind you Digitimes is also the site that had a list of upcoming nVidia GPUs in the 8-series and listed ones like the 8900 etc...So it's all purely speculation I'd say, but nVidia might be jumping on Ati's bandwagon after they switched from HD2000 to HD3000 after all...

A drop to 55nm would be good news for those who want less power sucking and more pixel flying :)

Mind you Digitimes is also the site that had a list of upcoming nVidia GPUs in the 8-series and listed ones like the 8900 etc...Are you sure you aren't mistaking a report you read on CustomPC that cited The Inquirer as their source (http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2373979&postcount=3) for a report from DigiTimes? I've never known DigiTimes to get something like this wrong and curiously enough the CustomPC article's link to The Inquirer's article doesn't work...

With respect to your comment about NVIDIA jumping on ATI's bandwagon, I guess that that is one way to look at it. Of course if one recalls that an 8800 GT was originally designated as G92 and G92 was given the designation D8P in NVIDIA's new GPU naming convention then it seems logical to conclude that when NVIDIA unveils D9E they'll go with something like GeForce 9800 GTX as the retail name, since it will be based on NVIDIA's 9th generation GPU. Personally I thought NVIDIA should have gone with 8900 GT for G92 but maybe that was one of those things that got messed up with the transition to their new GPU naming convention. :p

Nah it was Digitimes allright I remember the layout...I'd look for the page on it but for some reason that's all members only now, strange...lolz

Seems like the internet doesn't support us when we're trying to prove a point :p

Here's a wee update:

GDDR5 by Samsung, world's fastest memory (http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/601746/samsung-develops-worlds-fastest-memory--gddr5.html)

Very interesting, even though it won't be reality for a while, but it might take that long for hardware to catch up with Crysis lolz...I do wonder how the devs tested out the maxed settings on that since no PC on earth can seem to hold its own on it, unless it was at 800x600 :p

The G92 version of the 8800 GTS debuted today. (http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1197381522840.html) It's speced with a 256-bit bus like the 8800 GT but has bumped up timings for all three clocks and an additional 16 stream processors.

Anandtech's review of the 8800 GTS 512 (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3175) says the 8800 GT is still the best bang for the buck though.

I still think NVIDIA should have named these cards 8900 GT and 8900 GTS. It seems a better fit to me since the die shrink has made such a performance difference from the 90 nm version of these GPU's.

The G92 version of the 8800 GTS debuted today. (http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1197381522840.html) It's speced with a 256-bit bus like the 8800 GT but has bumped up timings for all three clocks and an additional 16 stream processors.

Anandtech's review of the 8800 GTS 512 (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3175) says the 8800 GT is still the best bang for the buck though.

I still think NVIDIA should have named these cards 8900 GT and 8900 GTS. It seems a better fit to me since the die shrink has made such a performance difference from the 90 nm version of these GPU's.
Interesting review, I agree that the market is at a high right now, between $200-400 you're spoiled for choice when it comes to bang-per-buck GPUs nowadays, with nVidia still ruling the high end, it looks like Ati is swooping in from below (maybe getting ready to take the top too?)

To keep it in the GPU section:
Tri-Sli 8800 Ultras pwn Crysis at 1920x1200 with everything maxed!!! (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/12/daily-wibble-12dec2007)
Surprisingly it's a bunch of Germans that's managed this feat lolz

To keep it in the GPU section:
Tri-Sli 8800 Ultras pwn Crysis at 1920x1200 with everything maxed!!! (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/12/daily-wibble-12dec2007)
Surprisingly it's a bunch of Germans that's managed this feat lolz

thats definitely interesting for the likes of me - but also dismaying as theres no way im building such a juice sucking pc - Tri sli boards I imagine are strictly ATX only, so imagine the PSU(s) required to power 3 8800s !! :(

I am not surprised at all about the krauts doing this. Germany is the home of some the worlds most talented overclockers..

crysis uber alles !!

I think its fantastic that just *one game* has thrown the hardware world into chaos, and given "the big two" some focus as to what they should be achieving. Its more than just the nutty enthusiast who wants a juiced system now, its the casual and moderate gamer as well. Im sure it also pleases MS as DX10/gaming is a major part of what vista's future adoption is riding on.

>>until nvidia/ati create a single card that can pull such a feat off, then I will be able to refrain from throwing more $$$ into my little black box ;)

mtfbwya

well, this latest bit of news was fairly interesting. it doesn't really affect me all that much, but for those on a tight budget, this is some good news. its called Hybrid Crossfire, and its a new technique that we'll eventually see with the Fusion CPU's from AMD. basically, it takes an integrated graphics chip and allows it to work with a discrete graphics card plugged into the mobo. the demo AMD was running also showed that their new integrated chipset is fairly capable (in terms of integrated graphics at any rate), but when combined with the new budget Radeons coming out, graphics performance was even better.

more info here (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/13/ati-previews-hybrid-crossfire)

Nice one stinger, I hadn't heard of that before it should definitely be quite interesting for the budget end of the market, which is where most of the sales are anyways...

@ Astro: I wonder what PSU they used for that lolz

On a more serious note, I think GPUs have hit the same wall CPUs have, where it's not the pure horsepower of one chip that counts, but the combined strength of multiple cores working together, which is why (IMO) nVidia and Ati keep pushing their multi-GPU platforms and make X2 GPUs etc...
The heat barrier is one that's not easily overcome, and though die-shrinks can help, having multiple GPUs devide the weight helps even more to achieve great results, if they can only sort their drivers out before they actually release the bloody things!

Edit: Some more news for y'all ;)

KDE 4 pwns GNOME and KDE 3.5 (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/14/kde-uses-less-memory)
The fact that it looks sexier and uses less memory than a previous version and even GNOME is quite an amazing feat, we'll see what the verdict is when it gets released finally...

3-way Sli but only for 8800 GTX/Ultras (http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/601791/nvidia-announces-3-way-sli.html)
For those who have very deep pockets (1.1kW PSU, wtf?) and have a good deal with their electricity provider...At least it can handle Crysis though ;)

Phenom 9900 + Spider platform reviewed... (http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=10648&page=1)
What can I say? Whether we like it or not, Intel rules the scene atm, and there's no stopping them is there...
Though I am pleased that this platform shows promise, promise just isn't enough...A horse can show promise but at the end of the day if it just isn't fast enough it won't win the race...
I really really hope AMD take some feedback on board and learn learn learn from their mistakes (and Intel!)...Hope is not lost though, the HD2000 series was a disappointment to say the least, but the HD3800 series was spot on, so here's hoping Phenoms can do the same...

Some more Tri-Sli Madness

Triple 8800GTX Ultra - pwnz at HD and UHD, kills million trees in process (http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/481/) :p

even though its a recent article - they omit using crysis in the benchies though :p

Also used a 1.1KW PSU - averaging at 750-800w at default settings

Just freakin ridiculous IMO. I love the idea of HD/UHD hi -performance gaming, but this is a *far from efficient* and *freakishly expensive* way of doing it. Most people would simply be better off getting 360/PS3 to experience HD gaming in the interim.

Hopefully the next gen of GPUs from the big 2 will at least achieve the same result from 'plain ole SLI' rather than teh excessive tr-sli. Ideally, we'd all liek that typ of performace from *one card*. It'll happen one day im sure - dont know when though... :(

Loved seeing the CPU ceiling effect on clear display in those snazzily presented benchies ;)

mtfbwya

As far as Phenom is concerned...

Well, there's a problem. A bug in the level 3 cache that's keeping AMD from releasing higher-clocked versions. As CPU load increases, so does the possibility that the chip will hang. AMD has released a workaround but it degrades performance by about 10%. This WILL be fixed in the next revision (B3, I think), so it may be wise to hold off on the upgrade to Phenom until this revision is released. I just can't believe that this wasn't discovered earlier.

AMD can't seem to catch a break lately.

I never knew that, thanks Q, so it definitely seems we haven't seen the Phenom's full potential yet, with maybe lower-clocked version able to OC to mad levels like the good 'ol days...

@ Astro: Yes Dual-Sli with a pair of Ultras is gonna be much easier on the wallet methinks :p

Thanks for that review though, looking at the benchies I really can't see what would justify the price of three cards compared to one though...

Heres one for the 'mind boggling' category....

3D Surrounding Gate Transistor Technology could clock 50Ghz (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/08/unisantis_and_ime_3d_transistor/)

Sure its just R&D phase, but the potential for such a thing.... incorporate that design into a fusion CnGPU type chip and the days of discrete video cards will be over.

One day, Im sure we'll look back and laugh, "do you remember when we used to get excited over those monstrously cumbersome graphics cards!" :p

mtfbwya

Heres one for the 'mind boggling' category....

3D Surrounding Gate Transistor Technology could clock 50Ghz (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/08/unisantis_and_ime_3d_transistor/)

Sure its just R&D phase, but the potential for such a thing.... incorporate that design into a fusion CnGPU type chip and the days of discrete video cards will be over.

One day, Im sure we'll look back and laugh, "do you remember when we used to get excited over those monstrously cumbersome graphics cards!" :p

mtfbwya
Very interesting stuff Astro, higher clocks would definitely be nice as it seems to be a hurdle for both CPUs and GPUs nowadays...With Intel focusing a bit more on Ray-Tracing and AMD looking into Fusion processors and such it does look like the days of "zomg this card doesn't fit my case" or "zomg my crappy PSU isn't good enough for this GPU" might be over...

Talking about the Fusion though:
AMD unveils a lot of their upcoming new technologies @ AMD analyst day (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/14/amd-outs-lot-info-analyst-day)

An extremely interesting read, and considering the slow year they've just had, if they can even pull off half of these in the next 12-18 months they might be back in the race, though I fear it could turn out to be another "AMD invents it, Intel perfects it" debacle if they don't start focusing on the immediate market as well...Demand is certainly out there, as Intel seems to be focusing on tweaks and die-shrinks mainly, AMD is going tabula rasa to bring us loads of new technologies...Will the gamble pay off? Is this just a temporary setback as the prepare to annihilate Intel a la P4 massacre?
I sure as hell hope so :)

More news peeps:

16-page Phenom review including overclocking results! (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-phenom.html)
Very interesting stuff, and I think the reviewer is spot on, AMD will have to focus more on the mid-range market and below, which is where the money is anyways, if the price is about 17% below the Q6600, then performance can be allowed that same margin can't it?

It certainly starts to look interesting when you see that Intel is struggling with their vaunted 45nm chips: Clicky (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/21/rumors-swirl-intel-45nm)
It might give AMD a chance to catch their breaths and catch up in the retail side of things whilst getting on with their own 45nm development...

And last up is nVidia's 1Gb 8800GT (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/21/8800gt-stfu-edition)
Should be interesting to see it work on higher resolutions...just wait n see :)

It certainly starts to look interesting when you see that Intel is struggling with their vaunted 45nm chips: Clicky (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/21/rumors-swirl-intel-45nm)
It might give AMD a chance to catch their breaths and catch up in the retail side of things whilst getting on with their own 45nm development... Oi! That Inquirer article on the "issues" with Intel's 45 nm manufacturing was a rather annoying read.
:freakout: "Oh noez, something is going wrong with Intel's 45 nm process but we don't have anything to back this up other than one of their Penryn processors isn't really available for purchase anywhere!" Ridiculous reporting, even if it turns out that Intel is having significant problems with producing 45 nm chips in volume. I don't think I'll bother with reading any more articles from The Inquirer. Their reporting doesn't measure up to the standards I expect.

In other news, DailyTech (http://www.dailytech.com/Images+Leaked+of+the+AMD+Radeon+HD+3450+HD+3470+an) d+HD+3650+/article10125.htm) has an article sourced from MadBoxPC, a Spanish-language website, detailing AMD's new entry-level and mid-range cards that are supposed to launch in January. Nothing in this news that gets me excited since I'm interested in upper end graphics cards but I guess it's a matter of wait-and-see how AMD's graphics strategy works out for them over the next year.

Hmmm, looks like AMD took some advice and focused a bit more on the lower-end market, which is good for them cause those are the kind of GPUs they'd sell in cheap Dell or other branded systems, which isn't too bad for AMD if it proves to be good value for money...

Dunno if this needed its own thread or not, so I'll drop it here:

XP SP3 Release Candidate 1 is finally here! (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=75ed934c-8423-4386-ad98-36b124a720aa&DisplayLang=en)

Since I've only got this PC and I don't feel up to a great catastrophe, I'll wait a wee while to see how it's received, but at least we know it's coming soon-ish lolz
Anyone who's willing to give it a go, lemme know how it fares ;)

Here's (http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/8/7/687484ed-8174-496d-8db9-f02b40c12982/Overview%20of%20Windows%20XP%20Service%20Pack%203). pdf) a linky to a .pdf that explains everything that's included in SP3 (so far)

lolz...getting rid of the requirement for product activation/key on installation is a good idea - too late for one of the chaps in the other threads though :D

maybe I didnt read it properly, looks like they didnt think it was appropriate to chuck in WMP11 ??

mtfbwya

lolz...getting rid of the requirement for product activation/key on installation is a good idea - too late for one of the chaps in the other threads though :D

maybe I didnt read it properly, looks like they didnt think it was appropriate to chuck in WMP11 ??

mtfbwya
Well, it's pointless in Europe anyways, since the EU would just chase them down like mad dogs lolz...
Though I think I read it was just to keep the weight of it down to a bare minimum of security/enhancement/stabilization/compatibility updates rather than fancy stuff.

Here's another wee update:
Asus to make PDA/Smartphone (http://www.gpsandco.com/articles/newsitem.php?id=5203)
The article is in French but it's got some sweet pics of it and I'm sure the specs don't need translated, and if they do, let me know ;)
I'm glad Asus is looking into this as I'm due to upgrade my contract phone in a couple of months and this one fits exactly into the category I'm interested in...The only thing that bugs me is that the screens looks quite small on both sides, which could be its downfall as there's stiff competition out there in this category of phones nowadays and some are just as powerful with like massive touch screens and such.
I'll wait and see what the verdict is :)

Perl 5.10 was released on Dec 18. It's been 5 years since Perl 5.8 came out.

Significant new features

The new smart match operator implements a new kind of comparison, the specifics of which are contextual based on the inputs to the operator. The result is that all comparisons now just Do The Right Thing, a hallmark of Perl programming. Programmers can also capture matches based on names, rather than position in the expression. In addition, the regular expression engine has been tweaked, tuned and sped up in many cases.

Building on the smart-match operator, Perl finally gets a switch statement, and it goes far beyond the kind of traditional switch statement found in languages like C, C++ and Java.

Other improvements include state variables that allow variables to persist between calls to subroutines; user defined pragmata that allow users to write modules to influence the way Perl behaves; a defined-or operator; field hashes for inside-out objects and better error messages.

Interpreter improvements

It's not just langauge changes. The Perl interpreter itself is faster with a smaller memory footprint, and several UTF-8 and threading improvements. The Perl installation is now relocatable, a blessing for systems administrators and operating system packagers.

http://www.perlfoundation.org)

NegSun and TK, ta for win and pearl links (I missed them over christmas). :)

As for intel's 45nm problems: One thing I can see that has an impact on processor development in general is that the structures are now small enough to get near the tunneling border already. 'Conventional' materials can only be so thin before things start to get pretty dodgy.

Hmmm, looks like AMD took some advice and focused a bit more on the lower-end market, which is good for them cause those are the kind of GPUs they'd sell in cheap Dell or other branded systems, which isn't too bad for AMD if it proves to be good value for money...

Dunno if this needed its own thread or not, so I'll drop it here:

XP SP3 Release Candidate 1 is finally here! (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=75ed934c-8423-4386-ad98-36b124a720aa&DisplayLang=en)

Since I've only got this PC and I don't feel up to a great catastrophe, I'll wait a wee while to see how it's received, but at least we know it's coming soon-ish lolz
Anyone who's willing to give it a go, lemme know how it fares ;)

Here's (http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/8/7/687484ed-8174-496d-8db9-f02b40c12982/Overview%20of%20Windows%20XP%20Service%20Pack%203). pdf) a linky to a .pdf that explains everything that's included in SP3 (so far)Little late but I installed the err, pre-RC1 version of SP3 and found it to be pretty damn awesome.

NegSun and TK, ta for win and pearl links (I missed them over christmas). :)

As for intel's 45nm problems: One thing I can see that has an impact on processor development in general is that the structures are now small enough to get near the tunneling border already. 'Conventional' materials can only be so thin before things start to get pretty dodgy.
Definitely true...
Thing is, if Intel gets the Nehalem 45nm architecture spot on, AMD will be in even more trouble as it's struggling to get its 65nm Phenoms bug-free and up to spec ATM.

... if Intel gets the Nehalem 45nm architecture spot on ...Absolutely. Then again, everyday use isn't nearly as controlled as a lab environment, what if intel's spiffy processor conks out everytime a cell-phone gets close? I guess there'll be more interesting news on that topic. Let's wait and see. :)

Oh, btw, in order to ease the wait: slainte mhath :guiness:

Here's another wee update:

Phenom 9900 (2.6Ghz) review (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/29/first-inqpressions-amd-phenom)
It looks like even the higher-clocked Phenoms can't quite bring the goods either, even though it's probably still caused by the L3-cache so AMD really needs to get their finger out and get us either higher clocks or better price/performance ratio or preferably both...I agree that K10 needs a major kick up the arse if it's going to rival the now aging Core2 architecture and even stand a remote chance against Nehalem...

^ I really wonder what the story is behind that dratted Level-3 cache. This seems to be the one thing that prevents the phenom to get anywhere. Somehow, that doesn't fit in with the rest of the design at all.

If I do buy a mac in '08, there'll be no AMD troubles at my end but this is really intrigueing.

NegSun, a piffy inquirer article does not maketh a review... we will let you get away with it, assuming you are drunk with christmas cheer :p

some more reviews here:
>Legit Reviews Nov 19 2007 (http://www.legitreviews.com/article/597/1/)
annoying thing about this article > its "gaming" benchies are given at low spec only, which shows relative performance of the CPUs well, but is not really practical. As has been done in other reviews, showing how the CPU marks plateau compared to GPU demands would have put some of those results in context for gaming. Also, there is no comparison to the Q6700, which would have been handy ;) (Although there are some Q6600 numbers in there)

>Neoseeker Dec 19 2007 (http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/phenom_9900/)

>Overclockers Club Dec 23 2007 (http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/amd_phemon_9900/)

I think the conclusions made by the neoskeeer reviewer are important > the winner is indeed the consumer ;)

For those that want a 1337 gaming rig, I think it has been demonstrated that performance, especially at higher rez, is really locked in with what your GPU can muster. This is a curious contest, but unfortuantely, outside the realm of benchies, its becoming a pissing contest, with not a huge amount of practical carryover. If youre going to have a magnificent/expensive CPU, your gaming performance at least, will still be limited. Of course, the profile of how teh CPU picthes in will change with developments in mainbaords/GPUs/Apps...as it always does :p

Price is going to be a significant issue, even before AMD rolls out there 45nm.

The comparable Intel Q6700 is listed at newegg at $539.00, whereas the scuttlebut (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20071129130057_AMD_Aims_Higher_Price_Points_with_F) orthcoming_Phenom_Chips.html) seems to be AMD is going to be pricing the 9900 at the $350 mark.

My Wallet's Conclusion:
For me, Im going to sit this battle out for the moment ;) I'll be interested in the 45nm numbers and the pricing of the 3Ghz CPUS when they come out. Other than that, Im more interested to see what those clowns ATI and nvidia can do try get "tri-sli" numbers on one card, and with much lower power demands. I think I'll be waiting at least 12 months :p

mtfbwya

Lolz well the reviews all say the same though don't they?

Intel wins this round hands down, and until the 45nm AMD "Stars" CPUs roll out and the Phenoms are a bit more settled (and hopefully down in price and up in performance) I wouldn't bother looking at anything else just now if you're well off...

I've seen some very well priced AM2+ boards lately, so I think I'd go for one of those with an X2 5000+ Black Edition which can give you as much performance as a 6400+ on air cooling apparently...And after that just slap an AM2+ True Quad in there once they've been around a bit longer and maybe switched to 45nm by then.

Seeing as I've got a 130nm Athlon XP just now, switching to a 65nm wouldn't exactly be heartbreaking, even if it is the aging Athlon64 X2.

I wouldnt even worry abou that too much negsun...upgrading a GPU is where gamers are going to see the most benefit atm. A 3850 or 8800GT will give them performance jumps beyond staying with with a lower end card and changing CPU from x2 ro x4 alone, whatever brand > thus is the crux of my rant :)

Let intel and AMD R&D fight it out...Hopefully their marketing depts.will follow suit ;) At the end of the day, thats the most important aspect of it all for us consumers :p

mtfbwya

I wouldnt even worry abou that too much negsun...upgrading a GPU is where gamers are going to see the most benefit atm. A 3850 or 8800GT will give them performance jumps beyond staying with with a lower end card and changing CPU from x2 ro x4 alone, whatever brand > thus is the crux of my rant :)

Let intel and AMD R&D fight it out...Hopefully their marketing depts.will follow suit ;) At the end of the day, thats the most important aspect of it all for us consumers :p

mtfbwya
Aye if I build my new system anytime soon it'll be an HD3850 with an X2 5000+ Black Edition...But it wouldn't hurt to have an AM2+ mobo for future uprgading, cause since it's got PCIe 2.0 on it with double the bandwith the graphics as well as the processor would benefit from that kind of mobo I think...Even though they still have to iron out some of the bugs, by the time I get round to getting it I'm sure it'll all be settled.

First info on NVIDIA's GeForce 9600 GT (D9M) has shown up on various tech websites. I like DailyTech so I'll post a link to their article on the 9600 GT. :D <click here> (http://www.dailytech.com/NVIDIA+Details+GeForce+9600+GT/article10218.htm)

An NVIDIA representative is reported to have said that performance of the 9600 GT is almost double that of the 8600 GT. Heh. Considering how poorly the 8600 GT fared in a lot of reviews I'm not sure that is as impressive as it sounds. :smirk2:

In any case, I'm more interested in info on D9P and D9E than D9M. I expect we'll be hearing more official info about NVIDIA's 9000 series graphics cards come February.

The specs of that 9600 look sexy for a mid-range card though, if it performs as well as it should, and its got the right price, the HD3850 might start to break a sweat :p

I'll jump on your nVidia 9-series bandwagon Char ;)

GeForce 9800 GX2 pics leakage! (http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/601851/rumour-control-geforce-9800-gx2-pictures.html)

If the price of this beauty is sweet enough and it can outperform the 8800Ultra, and if nVidia get their Sli drivers sorted in time by its release (you'd think that was common sense huh?), this card could cause a massacre...That's a lot of ifs and buts though, not to mention AMD/Ati is working on a dual-GPU card as well, so we'll just have to see which one will pwn the most, and for what money.

Yay 8800GS mid-range cards (http://en.expreview.com/?p=160)

Radeon 3850, watch out!

^^^
Hmmm... Am I the only one who thinks people shouldn't bother with the 8800GS? I mean, why buy an 8th gen mid-range card when you know the 9th gen mainstream card is going to launch within the next couple of months?

I guess NVIDIA wants to offer comparably priced competition to AMD's 3850/3870 since the 8800 GT never made their announced price range of USD$200-250. But since I know the 9th gen cards are coming pretty soon I'm just not interested in anymore 8th gen offerings.

ah, theyve finally entered the 9xxx series :D I hope the 9990 lives up to the relative coolness of its associated number :p I wonder if they'll go with 10K after that ?? :p

Im not sure Im a fan of the x2 revival though. Being a former 7950GX2 owner, theyre relative cost and power consumption didn't make dual PCB/GPU cards an ideal choice from an efficiency point of view. One would be better off SLI-ing two 8800GTs perhaps ??

mtfbwya

New Intel Processors! (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ0MSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==)

waugh, i knew i should've waited a bit more to upgrade :S

New Intel Processors! (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ0MSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==)

waugh, i knew i should've waited a bit more to upgrade :S
lolz, more a$$ kicking headed towards AMD :p

I liked the article on the Phenom 9600 Black Edition on that site as well, thanks! At least it shows the Phenom can reach those higher clocks, so that chip sounds quite nice for enthusiasts at least...


More update folks:
1Gb HD3850!!! And an AGP version too! (http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=11067)
Sexay stuff!!! The 1Gb might be a bit overkill like the article said, but still, especially at higher resolutions it can come in way handy!

I'd get the AGP version if my system wasn't hindered by the other components in that way...

Wow:

New Mac Pro (http://www.huliq.com/46799/apple-introduces-new-mac-pro) has 2 Intel Xeon Quads, meaning 8 cores! Official Mac Pro info (http://www.apple.com/macpro/technology/processor.html)
Too bad they jammed a 2600XT in there, hellooo electricity bill!
Very nice lolz, especially when you look at the entry level price tag as well $2,799...Ouch!



On the same kind of note:
Intel's Skulltrail does 4Ghz on Air cooling (http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=11066)

Hate to admit it, but Intel nailed this one...2 Quads on one motherboard being able to reach 4Ghz on air is nothing to sniff at.
The price tag on these is even more extreme though, for you Yanks, Ј3,000 for a "basic" Extreme Skulltrail system translates to about $6,000!

what are reviewers up to damnit!!

Smaller, quieter, cheaper, more efficient is how progress should be made. These power hungry, cash guzzling replacements for your heater will be ignored by most consumers, even enthusiasts for that matter..

Most 'enthusiasts' I know are always complaining they need to upgrade their 2 year old system(due to mainly being students), thus the meddles with the OCs etc :p

I'd like to see numbers on whether a 1GB framebuffer actually makes a significant difference(apart from to the bank balance of course)

Intel couldnt really fail with their 45nm IMO, the revamp they did with C2D set them on a development pathway to get to where they are now. This seems to be where AMD are stagnating. The 'quad from the ground up' strategy hasnt paid off yet. If priced appropriately, they could still sell well though, which is all they need to keep them keeping on with their spiders and pumas and whatnots :p

Still, until AMD roll out their 45nm CPUs, the almighty judges of the CPU pissing contest(whoever they are) cant rightfully call a 'true quad' winner ;)

For me though, the a$$kicking handed out by crysis to the high end cards in HD/UHD has dulled my keen-ness to upgrade anytime soon ;)

mtfbwya

^ the positive aspect about the new supersized gear is that 'sensible' gear will drop to more amiable prices. If I still decide to buy a mac, it'll be quite a bit cheaper once a sufficient number of users gets the hots for the latest stuff. :)

The question is MJ - do you really need a Mac?? I know I dont - even being a fan of Final Cut Pro doesnt justify the cost of such a thing to me. If it werent for ze games, Id be happy with linux. As I like gaming -- and I like the control/flexibility of DIY-PC, it will always be windows for me. Cant beat those smallforms IMO - small, efficient and pack enough punch to game alongside those monstrosities ;)

For those that have some money to spare, and in particular are graphic/design/visual arts and film professionals, then mac all the way. Everyone else is wasting their money AFAIC. The vaunted mac "ease of use" is no way a justification for the pricetag for some of those things...

mtfbwya

The vaunted mac "ease of use" is no way a justification for the pricetag for some of those things...
Mac lover that I am.. I couldn't agree with you more... Unless you have a specific need for a Mac (or it's proggies), they just aren't (sadly) a viable option in today's computer market.

Don't get me wrong, they're definitely no waste of silicon...my Mac is a beast, but for most of people's needs (and/or desires) nowadays.. you're going to be more upset than you may anticipate. I have a Mac, with bootcamp.. but I also have a standalone true-blue PC which gets used much more often ;)

@ Astro: you're right, old chap, I'm only playing on the thought for - as I said elsewhere - ease of use. The prospect of buying a regular machine along with another guitar seems a lot more enticing, come to think of it. As soon as I get it past the missus, I'm likely to choose the latter option. :)

I'll jump on your nVidia 9-series bandwagon Char ;)

GeForce 9800 GX2 pics leakage! (http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/601851/rumour-control-geforce-9800-gx2-pictures.html) I'll see your GX2 and raise you an ATI R680 (http://www.gamespot.com/events/ces2008/blog.html?topic_id=26147126&tag=blog;title;1), featuring dual GPU's and an estimated USD$400-500 price tag. Heh. Bet you didn't think I would pull an ATI card out, did ya? ;)