It may be evident that the Rebels will also have access to a Larger MC cruiser or revamped Home One.
This so called (maybe) counter is shown on image 6 of the 10 images at gamespot (web address below) shown on the far left of the image.
http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/image_viewer/frame_lead.php?pid=932730&img=6&sid=undefined)
It is still a fair bit smaller than a SSD, but who knows it could match the fire power and be the perfect counter. It is definetly far bigger than a normal Imperial Star Destroyer and the Home one in the original EAW
Looks like the Home one to me.
It is Home One. We scaled it up slightly for effect - we may leave it there since it looks cool bigger :) We haven't shown many of the Rebel units yet, but they DO have a counter.
It is Home One. We scaled it up slightly for effect - we may leave it there since it looks cool bigger :) We haven't shown many of the Rebel units yet, but they DO have a counter.
isnt just a bunch of bwings a good counter. lets not overpower a side for the sake of over powering them.
Yes, B-wings and Y-wings will work just as well as they do against normal capital ships, it will just take slightly longer.
I am bereft of details on Rebel abilities in the expansion, but I fail to see why the trademark hordes of Y-Wings, X-Wings, A-Wings, maybe B-Wings, and a few capital ships could not take on *any* enemy mammoth ship... its all in the pop. cap.
If after all I field 4 Imperial Star Destroyers in the normal EAW, I have little left for any other ships. If the enemy has an Ion Cannon, a single shot takes out 1/4 of my total firepower. It can balance.
I also don`t see the Rebels fielding anything larger than a Mon Calamari Cruiser... its not their style. No movement advantage.
I am bereft of details on Rebel abilities in the expansion, but I fail to see why the trademark hordes of Y-Wings, X-Wings, A-Wings, maybe B-Wings, and a few capital ships could not take on *any* enemy mammoth ship... its all in the pop. cap.
Just so long as the Empire didn't bring any corvettes along for support.
I think Thats why we have Tie - Interceptor :D
I wonder how many groups of Ties will be able to be produced by by a SSD just to make the Y Wings, X wings etc.... attacks that bit more difficult.
most likely.... 24 to 30 Squadrons.
Yeah you can tell that it is scaled up because there are 5 damaged points along the side facing us. The normal home one would of have only four damged points on the side. But anything slightly more advanced for the rebellion, i wouldn't put the "Mon Remoida" out of the picture. It's like a stanrard Mon Cal cruiser but much more sleeker and would probably fit in with the time of the Eclipse too.
I like the Home One's new size, but can you please weaken it? The Home One was big, but weaker in firepower than even a regular Mon Cal. Its only real advantage was size and twice as much fighter carrying space.
I hope you don't use the made up Bulwark Cruiser.....I will forsake the expansion if you do...
I like the Home One's new size, but can you please weaken it? The Home One was big, but weaker in firepower than even a regular Mon Cal. Its only real advantage was size and twice as much fighter carrying space.
What kind of hero would it be then? It's like saying Han Solo should have less hitpoints and less firepower then a single stormtrooper because he doesn't wear body armor and only has a pistol for weapon.
Gameplay>Realism
Gameplay>Realism
I personally think that every game designer should have this phrase tattooed on his body - preferably somewhere visible :D
Realism only enhances the gameplay. Each unit has its own unique speciatly and does not directly counter another. And each faction should be good at what it has to do constantly.
Realism only enhances the gameplay. Each unit has its own unique speciatly and does not directly counter another. And each faction should be good at what it has to do constantly.
But that's not exactly the point now is it? You're the one wanting more realism even if it contradicts a basic element of gameplay: Heroes are stronger then regular units.
Asking for realism everywhere is impossible and you know that. Even a game like Rainbow Six is not 100% accurate due to some technical restraints but also gameplay ones. Full realism is not fun to play.
Thats why I like the "allow heroes" feature in skirmish. If heroes give you the s%*ts then turn them off. It might give some semblence or at least the illusion of realism. I like realism alot but the Star Wars concept itself is based on its heroes. It would be nothing without them. Having said that, most of my skirmish games are with heroes off. Get things as realistic as possible, (and as close to canon as possible), but heroes will and should always be an exception. Its like having a very experienced unit; they are damn hard to kill and alot more resourceful.
Heroes are fine with me. They have their place. Although i think they should definatly have less health, but that can be helped by their amazing flying skills(Han Solo) ground stealth, and other factors.
Except that's not how heroes work in RTS games. You can't apply it so easily without breaking gameplay. E@W is not too focused on heroes and making them a micromanaging nightmare isn't the way to go.
Well, as long as points wise heros are not game whacking, I think they deserve to be "larger than life"
Yes this is star wars, and it is totally canon-like to let those heros survive impossable odds before retreating.
If you crave realism, go join the military. I want an entertaining game, not a physics paper on the theoretical power output of a fictional turbolaser or something similar. As is the case with all things fictitious, be it movies, novels or computer games, realism must be sacrificed on the altar of storytelling. That's how it is. It's why it's called "fiction".
I personally think that every game designer should have this phrase tattooed on his body - preferably somewhere visible :D
Lead by example!
(tapping fingers, waiting for photo of Mr. Torpid...)
(grin)
It may just be me but the SSD and the Eclipse should not be balanced at all!!
You'll get better Gameplay from having to use a number of Tactics than having one ship that can take it out.
Oh look they have the SSD...Build a MC10000 (No such Ship btw) to kill it.
My point is that its so stupid.
The SSD and other ships are meant to be Weapon Bristling ships. They aren't meant to have a direct opponent.
No, but for obvious reasons they're going to have to have SOMETHING to fight it with. Otherwise the game will end as soon as the Empire builds it. Even if the pop cap is really high so you can't take too many other ships with it it would be overpowering. The SSD could simply concentrate its fire on one ship and a time and wipe them out one by one while the Rebels were still trying to bring down its shields.
It may just be me but the SSD and the Eclipse should not be balanced at all!!
You'll get better Gameplay from having to use a number of Tactics than having one ship that can take it out.
Oh look they have the SSD...Build a MC10000 (No such Ship btw) to kill it.
My point is that its so stupid.
The SSD and other ships are meant to be Weapon Bristling ships. They aren't meant to have a direct opponent.
Do you even understand what balancing is all about? In the same post, you talk about wanting it unbalanced yet you talk about the possibility to use a number tactics to take it out.
That is still balancing.
You just assumed that people wanted a Rebel equivalent to the Eclipse. That, I believe, is not what people want or had in mind.
Having smaller ships such as fighters and bombers capable to take down an Eclipse makes much more sense and I think that's what people were thinking about.
the executor and eclipse will likely have no antifighter lasers like the stardestroyer *sigh*
For the sake of balance, if it can't kill bombers, the bombers kill it.
Just because bombers are its weakness doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to protect itself from them at all. I partially agree with Foshjedi in that I don't think the SSD should have an obvious counter like other ships but it should still be possible to destroy when outnumbered by for example about 3 cruisers maybe and/or lots of bombers. Although in the Star Wars universe I think it should be able to take on more but as you say gameplay>realism.
maybe the a wing might be the counter because in the film u see an a wing crash into it it might have to crash near the ssd brige but the bridge might be undestoryable by any other units untill all the other sytems are destoryed
I don't think that they'll implement Suicide Run as a special ability for the B-wing. But like with the ISD and Victory SSD the Executor probably won't have anti-starfighter weaponry; it'll need an escort of Tartans and its own TIEs to defend it from smaller ships.
The SSD was meant to be, to my memory, nigh on invincable. The A-Wings suicide run was(to my recollection)an accident, due to a blast from an anti-starfighter laser. Albeit it would be nice to have the suicide run ability, all you'd have to do is port in A-Wings en masse and the SSD is dead in seconds, therefore rendering the SSD completely useless.
I think prehaps Home One's "Concentrate Firepower" ability will be what you have to use to get rid of the SSD.
EDIT: I do hope the Eclipse has anti-laser weaponry though...
Whether or not it has anti-starfighter lasers is a moot point. Certainly, it can't possibly be as proefficient as a Tartan in destroying fighters.
The ISD in the game can defend itself against fighter assaults, either by sending its own or replying with lasers. It can be hard, but it's doable and the ISD is not totally helpless. The same idea can be easily applied to the SSD.
The SSD was meant to be, to my memory, nigh on invincable. The A-Wings suicide run was(to my recollection)an accident, due to a blast from an anti-starfighter laser. Albeit it would be nice to have the suicide run ability, all you'd have to do is port in A-Wings en masse and the SSD is dead in seconds, therefore rendering the SSD completely useless.
I think prehaps Home One's "Concentrate Firepower" ability will be what you have to use to get rid of the SSD.
EDIT: I do hope the Eclipse has anti-laser weaponry though...
Eclipse and anti-fighters Well we see shadow droid starfighters then???
I don't think suicide runs are feasable for rebels, cause A Wing suicide run is not a "feature", though it mind as well be one cause even Jedi(or chicken) will use this tactic in years to come.
I can see renegrade pirates with a control ship ordering unmanned ties going 'kazes but I don't see Rebels doing it in A wings... maybe gungans in ancient fighters(or retired Z95s) with disposable flight suits ramming around yelling "Meza goin' to die?" would be fun.
Here's my feel. Balance is needed in RTS games for the sake of gameplay. But a certian amount of realisim must be held onto. The game is real enough becasue it doesn't(as far as I can tell) make up ships that act as counters to others. i.e. Rebellion. They made a "Bulwark Cruiser" which was the rebel equivilant. But keep this in mind. In FoC you play as the pirates against everybody else. Which means if you have the Eclipse the counter is most likely the SSD. Why? Because you are fighting everybody else, it would make sense that you would have to fight something that has near the same amount of power that you have.
It is Home One. We scaled it up slightly for effect - we may leave it there since it looks cool bigger :) We haven't shown many of the Rebel units yet, but they DO have a counter.
XD pls leave it at that size, the Home One is supposed to be bigger than the liberty class crusiers ( think thats the name of the other mon cal crusiers we have in the pic, no sure). I asked for this in other post
In the films Home one does not appear to be much bigger than the Defiance.
One point I would like to make is why can you only build the winged version of the mon calamari star cruiser. There was more than one of the unwinged version at the battle of endor. You could give them a different abilty to the winged version.
I would like to see the Bulwark Cruiser again in Rebelion/Supremacy it was the rebels main counter to the SSD.
The other point I would like to make is that the rebels main strength is there fighters. The whole point of the rebels was they used guerrilla tactics in the films not all out shows of force.
NO BULWARK. That was the worst ship ever. It was made up as a Rebel "counter" to the SSD, which they would never have, and wouldnt build it anyway.
And Sithman, think Assault Frigate MKII, Tartan, and Broadside Cruiser. Plus they made the Marauder a "Missle Cruiser"
It is Home One. We scaled it up slightly for effect - we may leave it there since it looks cool bigger :) We haven't shown many of the Rebel units yet, but they DO have a counter.
Im guessing MC-90? Althoughnot quite as powerful, almost. More than enough to bring down an Executor with some help.
http://www.eyeonstarwars.com/trilogy/vehicle/images/mc_star.gif) vs
http://history.wolfslair.org/98_Feb/sstd.gif) = MASSIVE FUN BATTLES!!
What the? The MC-90 was closer to a counter for the Imperial Star Destroyer MKII. Considering that it took 2 MC-80s to even think of challenging a MKI, the MC-90 was the first ship that could actually bring it down on its own. But even 5 of these could take on a SSD.
Yeah, 2-3 could challenge an Executor. Might not necessarily win, but cripple it, atleast.
I hope you don't use the made up Bulwark Cruiser.....I will forsake the expansion if you do...
What are you talking about??? there was only one anyway
One Bulwark? In Rebellion I had a whole fleet of the things...
I also don`t see the Rebels fielding anything larger than a Mon Calamari Cruiser... its not their style. No movement advantage.
I concur.
I love discussions of realism and "Star Wars", that is rich, real rich :giggle1:
I love discussions of realism and "Star Wars", that is rich, real rich :giggle1:
Was gonna say the same thing. Realism + Star Wars = Laughable. The reason why Star Wars is so fun to watch is because it isn't realistic, sure some parts were inspired by westerns and ww2 but the rest is just good story telling.
As for the SSD, a handful of mc80's could bring it down, it's just a matter of positioning and tactics. I already have numerous ways to bring it down and I haven't even seen it in play yet. Bombers with a fighter screen is already a sure bet.
I'm going to repeat something that's been said a few times, primarily by the esteemed master o' mod FoshJedi. A giant counter ship simply is NOT the Rebel style. The Alliance To Restore The Republic was about subterfuge, speed, fighter strength. Their Mon Calamari Cruisers were very rare in the Rebellion fleet. Later on, as the Rebel Alliance transforms into the New Republic and then in the wake of the Yuuzhan Vong war into the Galactic Alliance (btw, if we ever see a Yuuzhan Vong game, I will literally bawl tears composed of pure happy joy), we start seeing some of the bigger ships, like the MC-80b Mon Remonda class, the MC-90 Defiance class, the Viscount and Strident classes of Star Defender. Now that it's a legit government, it has both the resources and legitimacy as a government to field massive battlecruisers. However, the expansion takes place in the Death Star II, Later Stages of Rebellion era, and the Alliance just didn't have a huge cruiser fleet at that time.
The point has been raised, and I again raise it, that the Executor and Eclipse classes, while being very intimidating and impressive, does NOT imbalance the game. B-Wings, Y-Wings, those alone with support from X-Wings, A-Wings, and Corellian vessels for TIE defense, can lay low one of the big ships. Like another guy said about the pop cap, if he has four ISDs and one gets taken out with an ion, and those ships took up all his popcap points, the Rebels CAN take those ships down.
Like the dev said, though, in the very end, gameplay over realism, always.
that is a fanon Pic of a MC-90, Stri, NVM about the one ever mad thing, wrong ship