Stinkin rich and stinkin dumb.
lucas doesn't care what people think of star wars and neither do i.
Originally posted by thejeditraitor
lucas doesn't care what people think of star wars
That's a pretty poor attitude for him to take when if it weren't for people loving Star Wars George Lucas would be nothing. :dozey:
i say that because he is making star wars. it's his vision, his story. he's not making it for box office dollars or critical acclaim.
if he was, he would have just quit after ep 1 after everyone bitched about it so much.
in fact that's probably what i would have done.
what i mean to say is he's not making star wars to suit people's specific taste. if he was it would be 4, 5 and 6 all over again with the matrix and lotr thrown in there.
people that hate the prequels don't love star wars as much as they claim. true star wars fans take the films for what they are... lucas' story.
Originally posted by richcz3
Whats funnier is how little George is involved in the looks of his main characters. Your avatar (General Grievous) had his beginings in a spray bottle top submitted by one of his character artists. Yoda's look and height wasn't settled on until pre production started on return of the Jedi. Before production the Director had envisioned Yoda being nine foot man. I've always wondered how well these stories were/are fleshed out especialy the first three episodes.
richcz3
that's not an accurate assessment.
i said he doesn't care about the games.
he definitely cares and takes meticulous time with the star wars films. they take up his whole life. every ship, creature, world, design, everything is judged or created by lucas. what he does is let the artists come up with their own ideas but he has to approve them. just watch the special features on the first 2 episode dvds. he goes over every aspect of the film in pre and post-production hundreds of times to get it the way he wants it.
the reason ep 3 is the last film is because the story is finished and also he will have spent from the end of 1995 to may 2005 on the prequel trilogy. that's 10 years to make 3 films. he doesn't want to do this the rest of his life.
He cares for many different reasons. There's people who work with a passion an people who inadvertanly work in building an empire. He is the later of the two. Less a body of work and more a vehicle of commerce.
As George Lucas readily admits, he has become the corporation he had fought against. At this stage in the game passion has nothing to do with the time he spends developing movies. He has the hoardes of minions to mold and build what he take the time to oversee.
George 2004 would be telling George 1997, "Who's your daddy?" and George 1977 would yell "NOOOooooooo"
richcz3
Originally posted by thejeditraitor
people that hate the prequels don't love star wars as much as they claim. true star wars fans take the films for what they are... lucas' story.
That is such a load of garbage. Loving Star Wars and blindly loving anything that is spawned by George Lucas are two VERY different things. George Lucas lost something in the 20 + years between the OT and the PT, because the PT is missing something, and the changes Lucas made to the OT reek of Prequel-ness.
Now I still LIKE the prequels, don't get me wrong. But I donot LOVE them the way I LOVE the Original Trilogy. IF the prequels didn't exist I really wouldn't mind, but I'd feel like a part of me was missing if there were no Original Trilogy.
it's called nostalgia.
when we see the prequels we're older and things are different.
think about this, for alot of the kids watching the prequels these past few years, that's their ot.
when they get older they might see all of the films but they will have special feelings for ep 1 or ep 2 because that was their first star wars movie. alot of the people on this board are young enough that they either haven't seen the ot or don't remember it.
they are star wars fans from watching the pt.
it's all relative.
Off topic but it seems this should be moved to the Senate Chambers cause its all debate.
I agree with ET BTW.
I wouldn't say this is a serious enough discussion to warrant a move to the Senate.
it's called nostalgia.
But it has nothing to do with nostalgia, the OT is just a better set of movies. The directing is better, the writing is better, the music is more powerful (because the action is more powerful)
The prequels suffer from bad writing, directing and acting, only one of which the OT suffered from (And the OT suffered from bad acting less than the PT)
George Lucas' ego has grown to the point where it's trying to eat itself. He's too full of the image that Star Wars is HIS and HIS alone. Now, the story of Star Wars belongs to George Lucas and he is BRILLIANT for thinking of it, on this you and I can agree.
However George Lucas is not a good writer, nor is he a good director. The OT is so fantastic, and a lot of that stems from the fact that GL had people help him write the screenplay, and in ESB and RotJ he let somebody ELSE direct it.
Now with the PT it seems he wants to prove to everyone that it was HIM that made it good, he doesn't need help, those other guys did well because of HIM.
Well guess what George, you've got it backwards. You did so well because you had those people helping YOU.
did you work for him are something?
you sure sound angry.
is this david prowse?
well i happen to enjoy the prequels just as much as the ot and people are entitled to their own opinions. you sure are critical of films at nineteen
Good points ET Warrior. Well put.
richcz3
Originally posted by thejeditraitor
well i happen to enjoy the prequels just as much as the ot and people are entitled to their own opinions. you sure are critical of films at nineteen
I never said you weren't allowed to like the prequels, however I AM saying you're not allowed to tell me I don't love Star Wars just because I think George Lucas has lost his mind.
And what exactly does my age have to do with my being critical of movies? I'm only allowed to not like movies if I'm over 21?
no it's because most prequel haters are 30 or older.
and lucas hasn't lost his mind. that's why noone would buy the original star wars because people couldn't understand it and they thought he was out of his mind.
this whole thing about lucas owes the fans is bull.
what about other hit movies? because people like them and bought the merchandise does that mean the creator has an OBLIGATION to make more movies? or to make them the way the public want them made? star wars is the only fanbase i can think of where so many fans of the films turned against the creator of the films.
if lucas hadn't made any prequels everyone would bitch about that too.
he can't win.
Lucas was under no obligations to make the prequels, and I doubt he would ahve taken any flak for NOT making them since nobody would have expected them. Just because a movie is good doesn't mean everybody wants a sequel, some movies have enough merit to stand alone.
However, once Lucas decided to make the prequels he still wasn't OBLIGATED to make them as good as the OT (though I think that was his goal...)
Lucas IS however, obligated to offer the original trilogy to his fans in the best quality available (DVD). Now wait you say, he's done this, but you are wrong. He has not offered me the Original Trilogy that I saw growing up, but this new fanciful version, which is his decision to make I give him that. If he wants to put an ewok and a gungan in every scene of his movie he can go right ahead. But the fact that he is simply ignoring all the cries of the fans to get the Original Trilogy the way we fell in love with it on DVD is asinine and ridiculous.
He DOES owe it to the fans to give us that, because without the fans he wouldn't have enough money to make all his changes, and he never would have been able to produse the Prequels.
Just because it's HIS vision doesn't mean he doesn't owe us anything for making him what he is.
I think episode 3 will make up for all that lacks from 1 and 2. It will cap off all that has been happening and solidify the new movies as a whole.
I hope I'm not wrong, though... :)
However George Lucas is not a good writer, nor is he a good director. The OT is so fantastic, and a lot of that stems from the fact that GL had people help him write the screenplay, and in ESB and RotJ he let somebody ELSE direct it.
Wrong, he wrote the whole Original Trilogy. But after he was done he saw that it was to long for one movie, so he split it up. He also could not direct the other movies because he was only one man and could not be on set, and working with the rest of the crew to. Watch "Building an Empire", it's on the bonus disk of the new DVD set.
And ET he changed the OT to his original vision. He couldn't have done everything that he wanted to do because of the lack of special effects, so when he could he did in the '90s. Again watch the documentary.
Your only nineteen, than you would have not seen the OT how it use to be. Maybe on VHS while you still where in diapers.:) ;) :p
i don't know what to tell you about the non-existent o-ot dvds.
i still have my vhs copies and i can watch them. it would be nice to have a restored old version on dvd but it's more money and there has to be a large enough demand for it.
that's the thing, lucas doesn't like the originals and wants his version to be the only version. i respect that, but i can see how others want the unchanged version. i guess someone needs to make a petition or something.
as for ep 1 and 2 and their sappy moments and dialogue, ep 3 will contrast this so harshly that most casual sw fans, who like the comedy hijinks and all, will be stunned and uncomfortable. this is the genius of lucas.
a poster on tfn was talking about the way ep 3 effects 1 and 2 and 4, 5 and 6. the sappy gungan and little annie moments will be the only innocent moments like that for anakin's whole life. the sappy ep 2 rolling in the grass and kissing padme moments are gone forever. watching the ot and seeing vader you will feel sad for him because you remember those things and the fact that now he's an evil, barely human, killer that has lost everything in his life.
and i guarantee you anakin and padme's moments together in ep 3 will be the complete opposite of rolling in the grass. trust me.
Originally posted by THE BADGER:
Wrong, he wrote the whole Original Trilogy. But after he was done he saw that it was to long for one movie, so he split it up. He also could not direct the other movies because he was only one man and could not be on set, and working with the rest of the crew to. Watch "Building an Empire", it's on the bonus disk of the new DVD set.
Wrong, he wrote and directed A New Hope. (which is the least awesome of the original 3)
ESB was directed by Irvin Kershner and the screenplay was written by Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan
RotJ was directed by Richard Marquand and screenplay was by Lucas and Kasdan.
So why exactly could he not direct ESB and RotJ but he can direct the prequels? What changed? And why did he decide that he didnt' need help writing the screenplay? I feel very confident that if he would have had a professional writer to help we could have been spared lines like "I dont like sand, it's so coarse and rough, blah blah blah make out with me"
Originally posted by THE BADGER:
And ET he changed the OT to his original vision. He couldn't have done everything that he wanted to do because of the lack of special effects, so when he could he did in the '90s. Again watch the documentary.
Your only nineteen, than you would have not seen the OT how it use to be. Maybe on VHS while you still where in diapers.:) ;) :p
I call Bull**** on his entire original vision crap. If it was in his original vision to have Greedo shoot first he obviously could have done that in the original versions. If he'd wanted some young person to fill in for Sebastian Shaw's ghost in RotJ he obviously could have done it. Star Wars did not NEED to be fixed, there was nothing WRONG with Star Wars. And you know what, I've already said it a dozen times but if he wants to make his stupid changes then he should go right ahead and do them. Make a directors cut of Star Wars.
But how often in the movie industry does someone release a directors cut and then BURY the original version so nobody can get ahold of it anymore? They don't, because they have respect for the fans that appreciated the movies. George Lucas has no respect for his fans, and I therefore have no respect for him.
Oh, and the Special Editions didn't come out until 1997. I was already 12 by then, I grew up watching the original versions.
i grew up watching the original versions and saw esb and rotj when they originally came out in the theaters.
so how come i like the changes and you don't?
what makes our opinions different?
how come i have no problem with the prequels and the ot changes and they are such a big deal to you and others?
and lucas wrote the rough draft scripts of esb and rotj then the screenplay writers re-wrote and changed it into a screenplay.
and those 2 films had different directors so george wanted to direct the first prequel himself to set the tone. he felt having someone else direct those 2 that he didn't have enough control over his own movies. it makes sense to me.
he also has a.d.'s and the cgi team doing they're own shots such as the clone wars scenes. he didn't direct those himself. he gave them his ideas and they did everything including new things like camera shakes and zooms and lucas picked what he liked.
i guess i like to think of sw as one big movie, which is what it is. thus, it makes sense to even out the old effects with new ones for continuity. i like each episode of the saga. some parts better than others, but each as a part of one whole story.
I'm tiring at the GL bashing.... I was very heartened by his last comment on the ROTJ DVD.... He commented that he loves the Star Wars movies, but acknowledges that it hasnt been easy, as he has put 30 years of his life into it...
I think i can safely say that none of us have any idea what it must mean to dedicate 30 years of our life to anything, and to do it very much in the public eye..... I salute GL, I really do, he has changed film-making at all levels, and despite him being responsible for Jar Jar :p , I still find his story and dedication to his vision to be quite inspirational...
as for his tinkering with his films.... they're his to tinker with.... end of story. The whole point of Lucas' struggle against the studios and directors guild was so that he could have complete control over his work, which is the right of every artist. Having fought so hard for it, he has deserved that right....
mtfbwya
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
as for his tinkering with his films.... they're his to tinker with.... end of story. The whole point of Lucas' struggle against the studios and directors guild was so that he could have complete control over his work, which is the right of every artist. Having fought so hard for it, he has deserved that right....
Originally posted by ME
And you know what, I've already said it a dozen times but if he wants to make his stupid changes then he should go right ahead and do them. Make a directors cut of Star Wars.
But how often in the movie industry does someone release a directors cut and then BURY the original version so nobody can get ahold of it anymore? They don't, because they have respect for the fans that appreciated the movies. George Lucas has no respect for his fans, and I therefore have no respect for him.
:dozey:
the only problem i have with the prequels is that the technology is better than in the OT...does lucas have any explanation for that?
Originally posted by THE BADGER:
Child:rolleyes:
Well at least you explained the meaning behind that post.....
er...
:dozey:
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Well at least you explained the meaning behind that post.....
er...
:dozey:
hmm...ET, to me it sound like you need to join "OOTA", apart from being one of greedos famous lines...."Oota goota Solo?" it is also a support group for "Obsessed-Original Trilogy Admirers"
here you go, have a card :D
http://www.myimgs.com/data/astrotoy7/ootagootasolo.gif)
:p
mtfbwya
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
here you go, have a card :D
This is where I kill you. :indif:
:xp:
Originally posted by ET Warrior
This is where I kill you. :indif:
:xp:
c'mon ET, you should be flattered, I went to all that trouble just to stir you a little ! Give credit where credit is due, and WORSHIP my mspaint.exe skillzz :p
mtfbwya
I like that card. I still agree with ET.
That card is hilarious :p
I don't whine about old visions etc cause its all GL' idea and i'm glad he came up with it in the first place because i <3 star wars.
"I love star wars... BUT I HATE GL FOR MAKING IT. GAH I HATE GL! WISH YOU NEVER WERE BORN!"
What dumbass admin screwed this thread?
Originally posted by Cpt. Bannon
the only problem i have with the prequels is that the technology is better than in the OT...does lucas have any explanation for that? The prequels show when the universe was free, and full of wonder. In the OT you see it when it's gloomy and ruled by a horrible dictator. One can assume when the emperor came into power, he spent more money on mass production ships and battle cruisers, and the like. Where as the Republic had spent money to make things elegant and appealing, but still workable. One can also assume that the emperor ceased production on a lot of things to make factories to produce his parts for the Death Star. Basically you've seen in past events that when a dictator takes over things go from beatiful to dull and dreary, old and worn. This is because of war, and uprising among those brave enough to fight to regain freedom.
Basically there is a massive war going on in the PT and instead of worrying about making things look pretty the emperor just makes things that work, and work well so he can just crush the rebellion. In the PT the republic didn't have very many enemies and they could concentrate on making things aesthetically appealing.
Originally posted by Alegis
"I love star wars... BUT I HATE GL FOR MAKING IT. GAH I HATE GL! WISH YOU NEVER WERE BORN!"
I hate people that say that. Makes me wanna grab a knife and go groin stabbing.
Originally posted by Sam Fisher
What dumbass admin screwed this thread?
wow, so much respect. I can feel the love drowning me. :dozey:
Originally posted by Sam Fisher
What dumbass admin screwed this thread?
If you mean who split it up into two separate threads, then that was me :dozey:
http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1648002#post1648002)
Sorry, but it might be better for you to have kept the thread together...
Originally posted by Sam Fisher
Sorry, but it might be better for you to have kept the thread together...
Not likely, since the other thread had nothign to do with THIS debate about Lucas, if you want to read the comments about the 115 million that was made on September 21st you can read THAT thread if you want to debate on whether or not Lucas is insane you can read THIS thread :dozey:
Originally posted by InsaneSith
wow, so much respect. I can feel the love drowning me. :dozey:
I feel so appreciated for trying to keep threads on topic and more organized :D
Well I love ya ET and appreciate all that you do for us. :D
now gimme duh MANSECHS!
Originally posted by InsaneSith
now gimme duh MANSECHS!
ere we go yet again :( Sithy's in a penetrating mood :( :p
mtfbwya
All he has to do is release the Original's, and everyone is happy.
Think about it for a second. Lets say Leonardo da Vinci created the Mona Lisa, and showed it to the people, and they loved it. 30 years later, he took it back, made a copy, changed it to have a man, a new location, and added a pony tail. He then showed them the new one, and they thought it was good, but they still liked to original. So Leonardo buried itthe original underground and payed a guard to make sure no one ever saw it again, EVER, claiming that the Mona LIsa is his, and the people are wrong to question his ability to destroy and edit it. Sure, technically, he does. But the fact is the artist gave something to the community, and it's just wrong to take it away. It's like a b**chy wife divorcing a man from her and his children. Ok, maybe thats a bit far, but I hope you catch my drift.
BTW, in the new DVD, if you watch it in slow-mo, they shoot at the same time.
Originally posted by InuYahsa
All he has to do is release the Original's, and everyone is happy.
Think about it for a second. Lets say Leonardo da Vinci created the Mona Lisa, and showed it to the people, and they loved it. 30 years later, he took it back, made a copy, changed it to have a man, a new location, and added a pony tail. He then showed them the new one, and they thought it was good, but they still liked to original. So Leonardo buried itthe original underground and payed a guard to make sure no one ever saw it again, EVER, claiming that the Mona LIsa is his, and the people are wrong to question his ability to destroy and edit it. Sure, technically, he does. But the fact is the artist gave something to the community, and it's just wrong to take it away. It's like a b**chy wife divorcing a man from her and his children. Ok, maybe thats a bit far, but I hope you catch my drift.
yes, Leo could do that, many would get upset, but its his artwork(well technically no because he was commisoned to do it but thats another story :p) ANY ARTIST MUST have the right to do with their work what they see fit, whether consumers and critics agree or not. For example, lets say GL said, OK, Im taking the ewoks out of ROTJ, alot of us would yell HURRAH ! but many many ppl would also whine and complain...... you just cant win ! :p
mtfbwya
Well yes he could do that, but you don't think that it would be WRONG for him to do so? Or at least think it would be like slapping his fans in the face?
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Lucas was under no obligations to make the prequels, and I doubt he would ahve taken any flak for NOT making them since nobody would have expected them. Just because a movie is good doesn't mean everybody wants a sequel, some movies have enough merit to stand alone.
However, once Lucas decided to make the prequels he still wasn't OBLIGATED to make them as good as the OT (though I think that was his goal...)
Lucas IS however, obligated to offer the original trilogy to his fans in the best quality available (DVD). Now wait you say, he's done this, but you are wrong. He has not offered me the Original Trilogy that I saw growing up, but this new fanciful version, which is his decision to make I give him that. If he wants to put an ewok and a gungan in every scene of his movie he can go right ahead. But the fact that he is simply ignoring all the cries of the fans to get the Original Trilogy the way we fell in love with it on DVD is asinine and ridiculous.
He DOES owe it to the fans to give us that, because without the fans he wouldn't have enough money to make all his changes, and he never would have been able to produse the Prequels.
Just because it's HIS vision doesn't mean he doesn't owe us anything for making him what he is.
OH MY GOD, SHUT UP! If you're stupid enough to buy into a crazy man's work you deserved to be ****ed over. George Lucas doesn't owe you jack ****, and you should be ****ing grateful that he even made the original movies. I have watched the OT and the prequals. I see no difference whatsoever except for the better graphics.
About the changes Lucas made to the OT. They are very minor. Greedo Shooting first? Who the **** cares? Making it so you can't see a rope holding up everything? Good. In the special features of the OT DVD's there's some footage from the original, and then from the DVD version. You can see white stuff around the falcon, a rope holding it up, Bespin looks really bad. I think all the changes he made were for the better. And even if they weren't, it's not like he changed the plot or anything.
*Mind your manners* ~ET
I did like the part in your rant, (which I deleted for the flaming and vulgarity) where you made a reference to me as though I were a child, when in fact your post makes me think that you're probably 15-16 years old, so perhaps you should think before you flame. (actually, don't flame at all, it's against the rules.)
Anyways, you need to cool it mister, not only was that outburst unnecessarily rude, it was also pointless. So I have an oppinion on something that you disagree with. OH NOES! Accept that not everybody thinks special effects are the only things that are important in a movie. :dozey:
i think that once ep 3 hits and people can watch the movies in succesion that prequel haters will come to appreciate them more.
maybe not.
there really is no point in arguing because everyone has their own taste.
but without the prequels there would be no...
view of the republic, the separatists or the clone wars..
no jedi fighting together...
none of the new races, worlds, technology...
no backstory for anakin, obi-wan, etc.
i am very grateful for the prequels.
I'm probably in the minority (especially because it seems 'trendy' to dislike the prequels these days), but I watched all of the OT DVDs and then the two prequels in the last couple weeks, and I have to say that I enjoyed them all.
The prequels, to me, seem to work backward. I hated Episode I for the longest time because it was sort of absent and seemed unrelated to everything I knew. Then Episode II came out and I found it much more bearable. The battle scenes on Geonosis were fun and I thought that it was on a similar level to the OT movies. I vowed never to watch Episode I again.
However, I caved since I had watched all four of the others, I watched Episode I again (after watching II) and it actually seemed interesting.
Like thejeditraitor said, maybe the entire prequel set will seem 'better' after Episode III is out, and the set of movies will flow within themselves, rather than seem like tangents.
thejeditraitor: After going to your site (which has some neat pics and spoilers) I can't help but hope that there will be a patch or an add-on for Battlefront that will add some of those cool looking Episode III characters and vehicles ;)
thanks man,
i hope they can as well, except i have the ps2 version boo hoo!
i like what you said about the prequels. they are like "backward compatible".
i think that once all is said and done people will say "i still hate jar jar or the ep 2 dialogue" or whatever but they will see how it all fits together.
it amazes me how lucas can begin the PREQUELS 25-30 years later with the same passion and fire, make things fit together and be doing it sort of backwards to the starting point of the ot. because if you look at it, it's really like positive and negative sides of the story.
-3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3
you have zero as the starting point, the ot and then he goes backwards 3 notches to begin the saga with episode one. kind of like counting backwards to the middle with the ideas and similarities. fans of the ot will really notice how much ep 3 looks like ep 4, 5 and 6. and then, if they stop prequel hating, they can watch them all and see the slow changes.
Everyone has their own opinion. I like all the Star Wars movies...However I'm not a fan of the expanded universe. A lot of people always wondered how Darth Vader came to be and how the Empire got started. Once the Prequels came out people started complaining. People will never be happy with what you give them. I'm sure that if the situation was reversed (Episodes 1, 2, 3 came out first then 4, 5, 6) people would be wondering what happend...Did the Empire take over or what? Now that's a topic for new thread...
Originally posted by thejeditraitor
thanks man,
i hope they can as well, except i have the ps2 version boo hoo!
i like what you said about the prequels. they are like "backward compatible".
i think that once all is said and done people will say "i still hate jar jar or the ep 2 dialogue" or whatever but they will see how it all fits together.
it amazes me how lucas can begin the PREQUELS 25-30 years later with the same passion and fire, make things fit together and be doing it sort of backwards to the starting point of the ot. because if you look at it, it's really like positive and negative sides of the story.
-3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3
you have zero as the starting point, the ot and then he goes backwards 3 notches to begin the saga with episode one. kind of like counting backwards to the middle with the ideas and similarities. fans of the ot will really notice how much ep 3 looks like ep 4, 5 and 6. and then, if they stop prequel hating, they can watch them all and see the slow changes.
The thing I can't decide yet is when my little one is old enough to enjoy these movies, all six will be out. How should she watch them? 4-6 then 1-3 or 1-6? The biggest problem with 1-6 is the big reveal in ESB is diminished...
Not only is the big surprise of ESB diminished, the entire explanation of Jedi and force is ruined in ANH.
I would never recommend anyone watch Star Wars for the first time in actual numerical order. Chronological (by release date) is the only way to go.