I just learned that the girl from the surveylance camera was found dead. :(
what's up with all these child abduction cases?
WHAT!!!
I was so praying for her!!!!
how awful!
the world is a sick and twisted place.
i think punishment for crimes of this nature should be more of a deterrent than just a few years in prison, because that doesn't seem to stop people from doing this. maybe if they would have their dicks cut off or something more severe, the sick and twisted would think twice about committing these crimes.
Originally posted by Siv
maybe if they would have their dicks cut off or something more severe, the sick and twisted would think twice about committing these crimes.
Well said.
It's scary to think that this guy has three daughters. Sick f***! :mad: I hope he makes a nice little friend in prison.
Well at least they had that video. Now they can FRY his ass! I mean they have the video - they have all the forensic evidence from the car - your looking at a dead man.
But just look at her.... now look at him...... it's just.... so... terrible...
Hang him high, I say. Scum like that shouldn't exist in the world.
If I have a little girl she's not leaving the house...okay...without a big shotgun.
I. Really. Feel. Like. BEATING. UP. THIS! GUY!
Yeah, this really sucks.
Hope that guy dies in prison. :mad:
I've said it for years now, and I'll say it again, "castrate all rapists, and molestors." then place a big block of salt over the wound.
Seriously, these people make me sick. It's a f*cking kid, I mean... come on.
It sickens me that rapists, practically get a slap on the wrist, what they do could be considered worse than murder, in this case it was a double slice to the heart.
Well, that's sad, but...
Originally posted by Siv
the world is a sick and twisted place.
i think punishment for crimes of this nature should be more of a deterrent than just a few years in prison, because that doesn't seem to stop people from doing this. maybe if they would have their dicks cut off or something more severe, the sick and twisted would think twice about committing these crimes.
Do you really believe that carrying out sickly brutal, violent and barbaric punishments on such people would make them any less criminal? Two wrongs does not make one right, perfoming sick and twisted punishments upon the sick and twisted is only twice as bad.
I'll assume that you by "sick and twisted" mean "having mental problems". You'll have to understand that mental diseases and physical diseases are actually quite similar to each other, so what's up with people always treating the two completely different? I mean, if a person got sick with cancer, you'd feel bad for him, but if that person is sick with OCD, you'd want to perform brutal inhuman punishments upon him.
Hang him high, I say. Scum like that shouldn't exist in the world.
Not to be rude, IG-64, but you do not know this person, you know nothing about his mental health, nothing about his childhood, nothing about his genes, nothing about his family... you have absolutly no right to judge him. That counts for all of you. In short, don't judge people you don't know about. Keep in mind that provided the right situation, it might have been you who would kill that little girl (still talking to everyone).
Don't let anger cloud your judgement. Please.
(BTW: Sorry for making this discussion serious, but it's a serious topic and should not contain only the arguments of one side)
"Not to be rude, IG-64, but you do not know this person, you know nothing about his mental health, nothing about his childhood, nothing about his genes, nothing about his family... you have absolutly no right to judge him. That counts for all of you. In short, don't judge people you don't know about. Keep in mind that provided the right situation, it might have been you who would kill that little girl (still talking to everyone). "
Doesn't matter. We should let him off, just because hes mentally ill? Not all people who are retarted go and ****ing rape/kill some one!
:mad:
Only sad people who have a strange idea of the world do this. It just shows how sick and twisted the world really is.
They should bring back capital punishment.
Being retarded is no excuse. Any health condition is no excuse.
Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak
Being retarded is no excuse. Any health condition is no excuse.
Exactly. If they have no control over what they are doing, they should be kept in one of those home things where people take care of them. They shouldn't be on the streets where they can cause harm to others.
Originally posted by Breton
Well, that's sad, but...
Do you really believe that carrying out sickly brutal, violent and barbaric punishments on such people would make them any less criminal? Two wrongs does not make one right, perfoming sick and twisted punishments upon the sick and twisted is only twice as bad.
I'll assume that you by "sick and twisted" mean "having mental problems". You'll have to understand that mental diseases and physical diseases are actually quite similar to each other, so what's up with people always treating the two completely different? I mean, if a person got sick with cancer, you'd feel bad for him, but if that person is sick with OCD, you'd want to perform brutal inhuman punishments upon him.
Not to be rude, IG-64, but you do not know this person, you know nothing about his mental health, nothing about his childhood, nothing about his genes, nothing about his family... you have absolutly no right to judge him. That counts for all of you. In short, don't judge people you don't know about. Keep in mind that provided the right situation, it might have been you who would kill that little girl (still talking to everyone).
Don't let anger cloud your judgement. Please.
(BTW: Sorry for making this discussion serious, but it's a serious topic and should not contain only the arguments of one side)
It would be different if it was your child. :(
Originally posted by Breton
Well, that's sad, but...
Do you really believe that carrying out sickly brutal, violent and barbaric punishments on such people would make them any less criminal? Two wrongs does not make one right, perfoming sick and twisted punishments upon the sick and twisted is only twice as bad.
I'll assume that you by "sick and twisted" mean "having mental problems". You'll have to understand that mental diseases and physical diseases are actually quite similar to each other, so what's up with people always treating the two completely different? I mean, if a person got sick with cancer, you'd feel bad for him, but if that person is sick with OCD, you'd want to perform brutal inhuman punishments upon him.
Not to be rude, IG-64, but you do not know this person, you know nothing about his mental health, nothing about his childhood, nothing about his genes, nothing about his family... you have absolutly no right to judge him. That counts for all of you. In short, don't judge people you don't know about. Keep in mind that provided the right situation, it might have been you who would kill that little girl (still talking to everyone).
Don't let anger cloud your judgement. Please.
(BTW: Sorry for making this discussion serious, but it's a serious topic and should not contain only the arguments of one side)
i agree with you. i say they should help him and if all else fails put him in a mental home
Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak
They should bring back capital punishment.
Being retarded is no excuse. Any health condition is no excuse.
I highly agree... with everything I quoted you from above... I mean, nowadays anyone who has done something seriously wrong that looks like they're retarded just puts that in the record... so that they will be excused and get a lighter sentence...
Poor girl, at least they found her body and know exactly who did it... I hope the guy gets punished harshly...
Originally posted by ZBomber
Doesn't matter. We should let him off, just because hes mentally ill? Not all people who are retarted go and ****ing rape/kill some one!
:mad:
...which only proves that certain people need more help than others. The question is, will you give it to them, or will you hang them for being ill?
Oh, and BTW: My Demon Hunter is cooler than yours :D ;)
Being retarded is no excuse. Any health condition is no excuse.
How come? If a football (soccer) player gets a disease which forces him to amputate his leg, then it's not like anyone would be pissed at him for not playing, since it wasn't his fault that he can't play anyway. Why should it be any different with mentally ill persons? It's not as if they choose to be "retarded".
Exactly. If they have no control over what they are doing, they should be kept in one of those home things where people take care of them. They shouldn't be on the streets where they can cause harm to others.
I can agree that if they are a danger to others, they should be kept out of harm until they are capable of living in society once again.
It would be different if it was your child.
True, but that's mostly because the case would be more emotional, so you wouln't be able to think properly when it comes to the guilty one.
i agree with you. i say they should help him and if all else fails put him in a mental home
Thanks :)
I highly agree... with everything I quoted you from above... I mean, nowadays anyone who has done something seriously wrong that looks like they're retarded just puts that in the record... so that they will be excused and get a lighter sentence...
I highly doubt prison would be effective to "cure" mentally ill persons. However, just throwing them back away from prison is not a good idea, mentally ill persons should recieve proper treatment so that they will be capable of functioning in society. Prison doesn't do this, so you'll have to look at other methods (and no, hanging is not a good idea either).
Keep in mind that all criminals are mentally ill in one way or another. Well, we all are, actually. Sort of.
Originally posted by Breton
...which only proves that certain people need more help than others. The question is, will you give it to them, or will you hang them for being ill?
Oh, and BTW: My Demon Hunter is cooler than yours :D ;)
How come? If a football (soccer) player gets a disease which forces him to amputate his leg, then it's not like anyone would be pissed at him for not playing, since it wasn't his fault that he can't play anyway. Why should it be any different with mentally ill persons? It's not as if they choose to be "retarded".
I can agree that if they are a danger to others, they should be kept out of harm until they are capable of living in society once again.
True, but that's mostly because the case would be more emotional, so you wouln't be able to think properly when it comes to the guilty one.
Thanks :)
I highly doubt prison would be effective to "cure" mentally ill persons. However, just throwing them back away from prison is not a good idea, mentally ill persons should recieve proper treatment so that they will be capable of functioning in society. Prison doesn't do this, so you'll have to look at other methods (and no, hanging is not a good idea either).
Keep in mind that all criminals are mentally ill in one way or another. Well, we all are, actually. Sort of.
woah you just said everything i wanted to say in my last post but i was to lazy to
Originally posted by Breton
...which only proves that certain people need more help than others. The question is, will you give it to them, or will you hang them for being ill?
Oh, and BTW: My Demon Hunter is cooler than yours :D ;)
How come? If a football (soccer) player gets a disease which forces him to amputate his leg, then it's not like anyone would be pissed at him for not playing, since it wasn't his fault that he can't play anyway. Why should it be any different with mentally ill persons? It's not as if they choose to be "retarded".
I can agree that if they are a danger to others, they should be kept out of harm until they are capable of living in society once again.
True, but that's mostly because the case would be more emotional, so you wouln't be able to think properly when it comes to the guilty one.
Thanks :)
I highly doubt prison would be effective to "cure" mentally ill persons. However, just throwing them back away from prison is not a good idea, mentally ill persons should recieve proper treatment so that they will be capable of functioning in society. Prison doesn't do this, so you'll have to look at other methods (and no, hanging is not a good idea either).
Keep in mind that all criminals are mentally ill in one way or another. Well, we all are, actually. Sort of.
Well, then, what if he wasn't mentally ill and he was just weak and gave into his wrath in a selfish act to kill an innocent child and then was given "proper treatment" and was praised for his ruthless act? And if he is mentally ill then it seems he is so i'll enough to not be thinking about any of his actions therefore he has no chance in life and should be stopped before he hurts another soul.
Health conditions shouldn't matter period. It's just a tactic they use to get out of their punishment.
They may have not "chose" to be "retarded," but they "chose" to commit the crime.
Tis a sad world we live in. What a shame to hear this happen.
Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak
Health conditions shouldn't matter period. It's just a tactic they use to get out of their punishment.
They may have not "chose" to be "retarded," but they "chose" to commit the crime.
First, I am shocked and disgusted at this crime. I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy(rape and such). I would like a bat and a few minutes with our prize-package here...
...but eneogh of that. Whats happened has happened, and his punishment is out of our hands.
Phreak is right, however. Sometimes its true, but its no excuse.
Its sounds very Darwinistic...
...but if someone is homocidal/pediphile/suicidal, something has to be done to protect ourselves.(well, suicidal, we protect them from themselves)
sick @!#$s like him should just get executed. Mental illness is just a poor excuse. He does not deserve to be taken care of in a special place
Originally posted by IG-64
Well, then, what if he wasn't mentally ill and he was just weak and gave into his wrath in a selfish act to kill an innocent child and then was given "proper treatment" and was praised for his ruthless act?
Anyone who murders another person on "purpose" is acting outside of sanity and thus can be classified as mentally ill, in some way or another.
And if he is mentally ill then it seems he is so i'll enough to not be thinking about any of his actions therefore he has no chance in life and should be stopped before he hurts another soul.
I'm not sure that you realise what you are saying here. Unless I am very wrong, you say that because he is so ill, he deserves to die - myself, I think that being seriously ill is only a reason for needing more help, and he should not be killed for something that is none of his fault and that he is unable to do anything with.
and should be stopped before he hurts another soul
You have my opinions totally mistaken if you believe I simply want the court to say "You are seriously mentally ill, so you can go home now as a free man". People who are unable to function in society should not be released back to it untill they have regained that function.
Basically, you have three choices about this man. You can put him in prison for 10-20 years, but then he will likely be even more dangerous and mental when you let him out again. Or you can put him in for life or deal with him with death penalty, but both of those kills an innocent life and are cruel and injustful. Or you can choose to give aid to the man in form of putting him into some clinic, in hope that he will one day be able to get back to society as a normal man, and he will not be released before that.
So all in all, you can either let a seriously dangerous man free in society after a certain amount of years, or you can take an innocent life, or you can make an attempt on "rescuing" this man and killing or harming no one for the best of all. I favor the last.
Health conditions shouldn't matter period. It's just a tactic they use to get out of their punishment.
As I said earlier, all criminals are mentally ill in some way or another. The idea of punishment for crimes is a horrible flawed one, and it mostly does not work (most criminals are in prison several times, but they don't get any less criminal, do they?). But as I have said too many times already, criminals should not be let free even though they have a poor mental condition.
They may have not "chose" to be "retarded," but they "chose" to commit the crime.
Since the crime is a direct consequense of them having mental issues ("retarded" is not a good word, many mentally ill people are intelligent), I fail to see how you come by the conclusion that they choose to commit the crime when they do not choose to have mental issues.
First, I am shocked and disgusted at this crime. I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy(rape and such). I would like a bat and a few minutes with our prize-package here...
Two wrongs does not make one right, period.
Its sounds very Darwinistic...
...but if someone is homocidal/pediphile/suicidal, something has to be done to protect ourselves.(well, suicidal, we protect them from themselves)
Inprisonment is a poor way of doing this, death penalty is brutal and injustful and takes a life, but at a clinic this person will not go free until mentally normal again. The third choice is the safest way of protecting themselves and others from mental illness.
Or you can put him in for life or deal with him with death penalty, but both of those kills an innocent life and are cruel and injustful.
I fail to see how a murderer, rapist, ect is innocent.
I still believe in death penalty. It may not be "right," but I prefer it over babying criminals in their "prisons."
Damn, it is a sick world that we live in. Yes he MUST be punished by being sent to prison. None of this 'he's got a mental disorder', or some crap like that. That doesn't make him innocent, this is a young little girl who had her whole life ahead of her that was taken away by this crazy guy. Lifetime is prison suits it.
What I was reffering to was that after doing something like that I don't think he'll ever "regain function"
besides, not everything is a mental illness, if you cry or beat the table when your mad, it's not a mental illness, there is a thing called wrath, you know. Some people just give in to thier weakness, and it's not always 'cause their brains are broken.
"Oh, and BTW: My Demon Hunter is cooler than yours "
Well, I gotta agree with you on that. ^_^
Dude, I just checked the webster site...
Breton(BRETON):
(noun) see "Bleeding Heart for Criminals"
:)
Originally posted by Breton
I can agree that if they are a danger to others, they should be kept out of harm until they are capable of living in society once again....
I highly doubt prison would be effective to "cure" mentally ill persons. However, just throwing them back away from prison is not a good idea, mentally ill persons should recieve proper treatment so that they will be capable of functioning in society. Prison doesn't do this, so you'll have to look at other methods (and no, hanging is not a good idea either).
Keep in mind that all criminals are mentally ill in one way or another. Well, we all are, actually. Sort of.
Sorry man, but I completely disagree with you. You're under the impression that everyone that goes to jail is there because they're mentally ill, and that they're there to be corrected so they can be put back in society.
People who kill, maim, and rape innocent people, and in this case children, deserve death. I don't care if the guy can be "cured" or not - if he's sick enough to take a human life in a cruel and inhumane way, then I want him dead.
My thoughts are out for the family of the girl. And may God have mercy on that sunuvabitch, because I know we sure as hell won't.
Originally posted by Breton
Anyone who murders another person on "purpose" is acting outside of sanity and thus can be classified as mentally ill, in some way or another.
Rubbish. If that were the case, every murderer out that would be using that as an excuse and there would be no prisons, just half a world of mental hospitals.
I'm not sure that you realise what you are saying here. Unless I am very wrong, you say that because he is so ill, he deserves to die - myself, I think that being seriously ill is only a reason for needing more help, and he should not be killed for something that is none of his fault and that he is unable to do anything with.
None of his fault? He raped and murdered a young girl. Who's fault is it, ours? We are all responsible for our own actions and should be held accountable for them. If such actions were without concequence (such as a life term in prison or the death penalty), then what would this world be like? I shudder to think.
but both of those kills an innocent life and are cruel and injustful.
What about this young girls "innocent life" which he chose to take? Hmmmm? He should either have his bollocks cut off or he should fry, full stop.
So all in all, you can either let a seriously dangerous man free in society after a certain amount of years, or you can take an innocent life, or you can make an attempt on "rescuing" this man and killing or harming no one for the best of all. I favor the last.
Lets see. I think I'll pick... FRY.
As I said earlier, all criminals are mentally ill in some way or another.
Untrue. Some are, some aren't. You simply cannot generalize like that. Don't confuse mentally ill with evil.
The idea of punishment for crimes is a horrible flawed one, and it mostly does not work (most criminals are in prison several times, but they don't get any less criminal, do they?). But as I have said too many times already, criminals should not be let free even though they have a poor mental condition.
So you are suggesting that everyone who commits a crime needs to see a shrink instead of going to prison. That is beyond laughable.
the world is full of sick people. i feel so sorry for the girls unfortunate family. i hope that guy gets a severe punishment for what he has done. its terrible that we are fighting terrorism when we have these sickos in our own country
Who is saying the abductor in this case was mentally ill? And what mental illness causes you to abduct and kill young girls?
if that person is sick with OCD, you'd want to perform brutal inhuman punishments upon him.
Having had a father with OCD, I can safely say I have no idea how that was connected with reality. o_O
Oh, and I'd just like to add that I have two young daughters, and if anything like this happened to one of them, I would personally seek the MF out and without hesitation cut his dick off. And no, I'm not just saying it, I mean it. Would that make me mentally ill? I don't think so.
Originally posted by leXX
Oh, and I'd just like to add that I have two young daughters, and if anything like this happened to one of them, I would personally seek the MF out and without hesitation cut his dick off. And no, I'm not just saying it, I mean it. Would that make me mentally ill? I don't think so.
"in the bedroom, the mighty bedroom, the husband sleeps tight"
*1 minute later*
" A weiner chop! A weiner Chop! A weiner chop!"
I'm so sorry, i just couldn't resist. ^_^
I agree with Jed on this. Seems like you are alone on this one Brenton.....
i'm with Jed on this too. A girl with her whole life ahead of her taken away cos of this b@$+@rd.
Originally posted by LeXX
Oh, and I'd just like to add that I have two young daughters, and if anything like this happened to one of them, I would personally seek the MF out and without hesitation cut his dick off. And no, I'm not just saying it, I mean it. Would that make me mentally ill? I don't think so.
I agree with what you said about the criminal bit. Mind you, there ARE some criminals that have mental disabilities but most of them are those immoral pr!cks. But you say that every criminal has a mental disorder. If every criminal is a criminal because of there mental disability, then you can count everyone here (99.99%) a criminal for things like vandalism, stealing, speeding, not putting a dog on a leash, not reporting bank transaction errors in your favour, riding your bike on the footpath. Therefore we here are all criminals with mental disorders. So ridiculous that I'm laughing at it right now!
Originally posted by ZBomber
"in the bedroom, the mighty bedroom, the husband sleeps tight"
*1 minute later*
" A weiner chop! A weiner Chop! A weiner chop!"
I'm so sorry, i just couldn't resist. ^_^
I agree with Jed on this. Seems like you are alone on this one Brenton.....
don't laugh, don't laugh, do--- :Prplgh: :lol: :rofl:
No, let him reform like Breton says. Let him live with the guilt of his crimes. If he doesn't get reformed, then...well I'm a fan of the guillotine myself...
Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak
I fail to see how a murderer, rapist, ect is innocent.
All your actions are decided not by you, but by how your brain works, how you were raised and what's happening around you. Neither of these three things do you have any control of. That's why I say criminals are "innocent", because they have no control what-so-ever over what they do, as their actions are preceeded by factors they have zero choice over.
I still believe in death penalty. It may not be "right," but I prefer it over babying criminals in their "prisons."
Killing people because they have solvable problems? In that case, kill everyone who gets below C at school. Killing people because they are ill? In that case, kill all patients at hospitals. Two wrongs does not make one right, honestly.
Originally posted by Jedi Luke
Damn, it is a sick world that we live in. Yes he MUST be punished by being sent to prison. None of this 'he's got a mental disorder', or some crap like that. That doesn't make him innocent, this is a young little girl who had her whole life ahead of her that was taken away by this crazy guy. Lifetime is prison suits it.
Problem is, the entire reason for why you want to send him to prison is as revenge. You seem to believe that everything will be fine if you ruin two lifes rather than one. This is, however, very untrue. One life is already gone, and there's nothing to do about it. The question is, would you want to get another life gone?
]Originally posted by IG-64
What I was reffering to was that after doing something like that I don't think he'll ever "regain function"
I would say it's well possible he will regain function if provided sufficent care. And if he don't, well, then we try further, no one will let this guy back to society when still dangerous.
besides, not everything is a mental illness, if you cry or beat the table when your mad, it's not a mental illness, there is a thing called wrath, you know. Some people just give in to thier weakness, and it's not always 'cause their brains are broken.
Pretty much all of you keep the border for mental illnesses way too high. Despite the popular belief, having mental disorders does not mean being psycho. If you are unable to function in society (i.e. being criminal), then that's a mental disorder in itself. Not being able to deal with your anger is also a mental disorder. So all criminals are mentally ill, as I said.
Originally posted by Jed
Sorry man, but I completely disagree with you. You're under the impression that everyone that goes to jail is there because they're mentally ill, and that they're there to be corrected so they can be put back in society.
And this impression is false? Why? And BTW, prison can't correct very many minds, it's a bad way of punishment as the criminals often get worse during their time locked away from society.
People who kill, maim, and rape innocent people, and in this case children, deserve death. I don't care if the guy can be "cured" or not - if he's sick enough to take a human life in a cruel and inhumane way, then I want him dead.
Just as Jedi Luke, your only argument for wanting him dead is as revenge. I hate to repeat myself, but revenge only makes it twice as bad. Why take another life? You won't bring back the little girl by killing someone, in case you didn't know.
My thoughts are out for the family of the girl. And may God have mercy on that sunuvabitch, because I know we sure as hell won't.
Yeah, I'm sure the girl's family will get so much happier if you kill another innocent.
Originally posted by leXX
Rubbish. If that were the case, every murderer out that would be using that as an excuse and there would be no prisons, just half a world of mental hospitals.
My point all along is that mental disorder among criminals is not an excuse, it's a fact. And why is the idea of no prisons and only special clinics so repulsive to you? Making criminals be able to understand their actions and thus be able to function in society is a much better alternative than locking them up and throwing away the key.
None of his fault? He raped and murdered a young girl. Who's fault is it, ours? We are all responsible for our own actions and should be held accountable for them. If such actions were without concequence (such as a life term in prison or the death penalty), then what would this world be like? I shudder to think.
It's nobody's fault. It simply happened, and I for one, unlike certain others, am not going to try to find a scapegoat to put the blame on. And you are wrong if you believe my opinion is that such actions should be without consequence, I simply believe that these consequences should be to discover why this happened, and then attempt to solve the problem when you've found it. This is an opinion that is not based on emotions of hatred and despise, nor pity and love for eveyone, but rather by what's the best for all.
What about this young girls "innocent life" which he chose to take? Hmmmm? He should either have his bollocks cut off or he should fry, full stop.
The girl's innocent life taken away was a pity, but it's already happened and that's it. Being unnecissary brutal and inhuman won't solve anything, it won't bring anyone's life back.
Lets see. I think I'll pick... FRY.
Then you choose vengeance above understanding. Sad. :(
Untrue. Some are, some aren't. You simply cannot generalize like that. Don't confuse mentally ill with evil.
Read what I said to IG-64. And the idea of evil is a religious one, and as this is not a religious discussion, I have no plans on discussing this. Suffice to say, I don't believe in it, and neither should you.
So you are suggesting that everyone who commits a crime needs to see a shrink instead of going to prison. That is beyond laughable.
Why? If you are so sure of it, why don't you provide me with some counter-arguments?
Originally posted by The Cheat
the world is full of sick people. i feel so sorry for the girls unfortunate family. i hope that guy gets a severe punishment for what he has done. its terrible that we are fighting terrorism when we have these sickos in our own country
Just as many others at this forum, you want to punish people for being ill. Isn't that "sick"?
Originally posted by Redwing
Who is saying the abductor in this case was mentally ill? And what mental illness causes you to abduct and kill young girls?
1. Read my response to IG-64
2. I doubt you can point at a single illness and say "That's the one!". However, he is unable to function properly in society as he seems unable to understand his actions, and that's a mentall illness in itself.
Having had a father with OCD, I can safely say I have no idea how that was connected with reality. o_O
Sorry, just a bit of translation problems. But my point remains the same, OCD was just an example of what he might have suffered of (which he didn't (translation problems)).
Originally posted by leXX
Oh, and I'd just like to add that I have two young daughters, and if anything like this happened to one of them, I would personally seek the MF out and without hesitation cut his dick off. And no, I'm not just saying it, I mean it. Would that make me mentally ill? I don't think so.
Giving into anger like that rather than sense and understanding, you'd make a horrible Jedi...and cutting off people's genitals like that does indicate that you would be unable to control yourself when facing a highly emotional situation, so that's a way of mental disorder, I'm afraid. Keep in mind that this was not meant as an insulting remark in any way.
Originally posted by ZBomber
I agree with Jed on this. Seems like you are alone on this one Brenton.....
Oh, I'll manage ;)
Originally posted by Jedi Luke
I agree with what you said about the criminal bit. Mind you, there ARE some criminals that have mental disabilities but most of them are those immoral pr!cks. But you say that every criminal has a mental disorder. If every criminal is a criminal because of there mental disability, then you can count everyone here (99.99%) a criminal for things like vandalism, stealing, speeding, not putting a dog on a leash, not reporting bank transaction errors in your favour, riding your bike on the footpath. Therefore we here are all criminals with mental disorders. So ridiculous that I'm laughing at it right now!
Again, I'll have to point at what I responded to IG-64. And yes, we all have a mental disorder in one way or another, but as everyone else here, you seem to believe "mental disorder" means "totally phsyco", something which is not the case. No one are mentally similar, so we all have mental disorders, indeed. It's just that some disorders are worse than others, and needs to be cured for this person to be able to function in society, even though most disorders are of no problem.
Copernicus was laughed at too, anyway.
Originally posted by Breton
All your actions are decided not by you, but by how your brain works, how you were raised and what's happening around you. Neither of these three things do you have any control of. That's why I say criminals are "innocent", because they have no control what-so-ever over what they do, as their actions are preceeded by factors they have zero choice over.
What are you on about that we have no control over ourselves?!? :confused: . Us (humans) act on self awareness, not by instinct. That being said, he is AWARE of what he did to this young girl.
Btw, I am therefore innocent for vadilising, stealing, speeding, underage drinking, even when I knew what I was doing. :p
Originally posted by Breton
Killing people because they have solvable problems? In that case, kill everyone who gets below C at school. Killing people because they are ill? In that case, kill all patients at hospitals. Two wrongs does not make one right, honestly.
People who get C's at school, patients at hospital do not abuse and take away someone's life. I bet the girl's family are next to a nervous breakdown as for such a terrible loss and to bury their own child. [/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by Breton
Problem is, the entire reason for why you want to send him to prison is as revenge. You seem to believe that everything will be fine if you ruin two lifes rather than one. This is, however, very untrue. One life is already gone, and there's nothing to do about it. The question is, would you want to get another life gone?
Answer: YES!! Would you let this guy walk free because he has a 'mental problem and no control over himself?' More children would fall victim to him. More innocent lives (not him) will be spent.
Originally posted by Breton
I would say it's well possible he will regain function if provided sufficent care. And if he don't, well, then we try further, no one will let this guy back to society when still dangerous.
It may be possible but unlikely. You are born the way you are. It's all in the genetic makeup. He cannot deny his natural attractions, therefore is a danger to society, therefore must be secluded from society in some way. To keep others safe.[/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by Breton
Pretty much all of you keep the border for mental illnesses way too high. Despite the popular belief, having mental disorders does not mean being psycho. If you are unable to function in society (i.e. being criminal), then that's a mental disorder in itself. Not being able to deal with your anger is also a mental disorder. So all criminals are mentally ill, as I said.
Well, I'm a mental case then, and I think 99.999999% here are.
Originally posted by Breton
And this impression is false? Why? And BTW, prison can't correct very many minds, it's a bad way of punishment as the criminals often get worse during their time locked away from society.
OMG!!! They've KILLED SOMEONE, DESTROYED A FAMILY and you're talking about 'that's too harsh a punishment?!?!?!?!?!?!? No punishment subconciouslly makes people tell themselves that they can do it again and again.
Originally posted by Breton
Just as Jedi Luke, your only argument for wanting him dead is as revenge. I hate to repeat myself, but revenge only makes it twice as bad. Why take another life? You won't bring back the little girl by killing someone, in case you didn't know.
No we can't bring the girl back but we can stop the same guy from taking MANY MORE YOUNG GIRLS' LIVES. His death vs 16 other girls: I choose his death.[/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by Breton
Yeah, I'm sure the girl's family will get so much happier if you kill another innocent.
They'll feel happy knowing that the guy who took their own child has been taken care of. They will not sympathise with that guy at all
Originally posted by Breton
My point all along is that mental disorder among criminals is not an excuse, it's a fact. And why is the idea of no prisons and only special clinics so repulsive to you? Making criminals be able to understand their actions and thus be able to function in society is a much better alternative than locking them up and throwing away the key.
Making them understand their actions?!? Hahahahahahah :D, don't make me laugh. These guys have ABSOLUTELY NO MORALS OR CONSCIENCE AT ALL!!!! You can't give them one as it's the way they are!!
Originally posted by Breton
It's nobody's fault. It simply happened, and I for one, unlike certain others, am not going to try to find a scapegoat to put the blame on. And you are wrong if you believe my opinion is that such actions should be without consequence, I simply believe that these consequences should be to discover why this happened, and then attempt to solve the problem when you've found it. This is an opinion that is not based on emotions of hatred and despise, nor pity and love for eveyone, but rather by what's the best for all.
It doesn't SIMPLY happen. Killing someone isn't something SIMPLE that you wake up and think 'I think I might simply kill someone today'. The fact is that HE KNOWS WHAT HE DID and he must be punished!!
Originally posted by Breton
The girl's innocent life taken away was a pity, but it's already happened and that's it. Being unnecissary brutal and inhuman won't solve anything, it won't bring anyone's life back.
That being will result in it happening again and again.
Originally posted by Breton
Again, I'll have to point at what I responded to IG-64. And yes, we all have a mental disorder in one way or another, but as everyone else here, you seem to believe "mental disorder" means "totally phsyco", something which is not the case. No one are mentally similar, so we all have mental disorders, indeed. It's just that some disorders are worse than others, and needs to be cured for this person to be able to function in society, even though most disorders are of no problem.
You make it sound so simple to 'cure' someone when it really isn't. The fact is that it CANNOT BE CHANGED, HE CANNOT CHANGE, it's sad, but that's the way he is. He knows what he did and cos he has no conscience or morals, he doesn't give a $h!t. Therefore this guy who took away a little girl's life MUST, I repeat MUST be punished!!!
Originally posted by Breton
Then you choose vengeance above understanding. Sad. :(
I... just. Agh. I don't even know what to say. Just.
VOMIT!
What kind of pappy crap have you been fed?
Vengeance isn't the best thing in the world, but by no means will I empathize with him.
Originally posted by Breton
All your actions are decided not by you, but by how your brain works, how you were raised and what's happening around you. Neither of these three things do you have any control of. That's why I say criminals are "innocent", because they have no control what-so-ever over what they do, as their actions are preceeded by factors they have zero choice over.
Killing people because they have solvable problems? In that case, kill everyone who gets below C at school. Killing people because they are ill? In that case, kill all patients at hospitals. Two wrongs does not make one right, honestly.
Problem is, the entire reason for why you want to send him to prison is as revenge. You seem to believe that everything will be fine if you ruin two lifes rather than one. This is, however, very untrue. One life is already gone, and there's nothing to do about it. The question is, would you want to get another life gone?
I would say it's well possible he will regain function if provided sufficent care. And if he don't, well, then we try further, no one will let this guy back to society when still dangerous.
Pretty much all of you keep the border for mental illnesses way too high. Despite the popular belief, having mental disorders does not mean being psycho. If you are unable to function in society (i.e. being criminal), then that's a mental disorder in itself. Not being able to deal with your anger is also a mental disorder. So all criminals are mentally ill, as I said.
And this impression is false? Why? And BTW, prison can't correct very many minds, it's a bad way of punishment as the criminals often get worse during their time locked away from society.
Just as Jedi Luke, your only argument for wanting him dead is as revenge. I hate to repeat myself, but revenge only makes it twice as bad. Why take another life? You won't bring back the little girl by killing someone, in case you didn't know.
Yeah, I'm sure the girl's family will get so much happier if you kill another innocent.
My point all along is that mental disorder among criminals is not an excuse, it's a fact. And why is the idea of no prisons and only special clinics so repulsive to you? Making criminals be able to understand their actions and thus be able to function in society is a much better alternative than locking them up and throwing away the key.
It's nobody's fault. It simply happened, and I for one, unlike certain others, am not going to try to find a scapegoat to put the blame on. And you are wrong if you believe my opinion is that such actions should be without consequence, I simply believe that these consequences should be to discover why this happened, and then attempt to solve the problem when you've found it. This is an opinion that is not based on emotions of hatred and despise, nor pity and love for eveyone, but rather by what's the best for all.
The girl's innocent life taken away was a pity, but it's already happened and that's it. Being unnecissary brutal and inhuman won't solve anything, it won't bring anyone's life back.
Then you choose vengeance above understanding. Sad. :(
Read what I said to IG-64. And the idea of evil is a religious one, and as this is not a religious discussion, I have no plans on discussing this. Suffice to say, I don't believe in it, and neither should you.
Why? If you are so sure of it, why don't you provide me with some counter-arguments?
Just as many others at this forum, you want to punish people for being ill. Isn't that "sick"?
1. Read my response to IG-64
2. I doubt you can point at a single illness and say "That's the one!". However, he is unable to function properly in society as he seems unable to understand his actions, and that's a mentall illness in itself.
Sorry, just a bit of translation problems. But my point remains the same, OCD was just an example of what he might have suffered of (which he didn't (translation problems)).
Giving into anger like that rather than sense and understanding, you'd make a horrible Jedi...and cutting off people's genitals like that does indicate that you would be unable to control yourself when facing a highly emotional situation, so that's a way of mental disorder, I'm afraid. Keep in mind that this was not meant as an insulting remark in any way.
Oh, I'll manage ;)
Again, I'll have to point at what I responded to IG-64. And yes, we all have a mental disorder in one way or another, but as everyone else here, you seem to believe "mental disorder" means "totally phsyco", something which is not the case. No one are mentally similar, so we all have mental disorders, indeed. It's just that some disorders are worse than others, and needs to be cured for this person to be able to function in society, even though most disorders are of no problem.
Copernicus was laughed at too, anyway.
Ok, let me clear this up for you, first of all, who are you to tell me what I should, and should not believe? Secondly, if I get my wallet stolen, and I get mad because of it, it's not because I have a "mental disorder". No matter what you say about it, that is still just an assumption and I do not believe it is true. I'm mad at you right now and the reason for that is that I am a human being and I have emotions, the brain is far more complex than you think, I feel sympathy towards her and wrath towards him, that is a normal emotion and it is not from some twisted ecuation from my childhood. You have the assumption that if a human isn't happy then he is mental and anyone that studies human consciousness or even has just a bit of common sense can tell you that that is wrong. You can sit there and ponder in your own little twisted world but leave me alone about it because I believe in human desision and there is nothing you can say about it, so stfu.
Originally posted by IG-64
Ok, let me clear this up for you, first of all, who are you to tell me what I should, and should not believe? Secondly, if I get my wallet stolen, and I get mad because of it, it's not because I have a "mental disorder". No matter what you say about it, that is still just an assumsion and I do not believe it is true. I'm mad at you right now and the reason for that is that I am a human being and I have emotions, the brain is far more complex than you think, I feel sympathy torwards her and wrath torwards him, that is a normal emotion and it is not from some twisted ecuation from my childhood. You have the assumtion that if a human isn't happy then he is mental and anyone that studies human consiousness or even has just a bit of common scence can tell you that that is wrong. You can sit there and ponder in your own little twisted world but leave me alone about it because I believe in human desision and there is nothing you can say about it, so stfu.
Cheers IG! You tell him! ;)
Yeah, I'm sure the girl's family will get so much happier if you kill another innocent.
Another innocent?! Please, he is FAR from innocent.
I would like to thank Breton for turning this into a valid discussion, rather than the redneck lynch mob it was turning into.
To cite the example, "youd want to kill this guy if it was your own daughter/sister" yes, that may be true, grieving for such a tragic loss is a very complex emotional process, of which anger and being powerless(to rectify events) are dominating emotions. The taking of the perpertrators life sates these emotions. If someone close to the girl turned up and killed the man in question, *their* motivations can be understood(and dealt with by a court of law accordingly). I simply think it is unhealthy for an entire society to develop this same mindset. It all comes down to fear in the end, and the fear that a horrific event like this would generate in the broader community. Unfortunately, a community bred on fear is an inherently violent one.
now I am beginning to see what Mike Moore was talking about in "Bowling for Columbine", I am glad I do not live in the US......
Revenge is not Justice.......Justice is not Revenge
rather than getting into a flame fest which would be *completely disrespectful* to the young lady's memory - I will instead dedicate this verse to her. May her soul swim to Heaven quickly
* * *
from The Soul's Storm by Emily Dicksinson
I went to heaven
'Twas a small town,
Lit with a Ruby,
Lathed with down.
Stiller than fields
At full dew,
Beautiful as pictures
No man drew.
***