Ah yes Side I almost forgot about if he makes it back. That's even harder to kill him in JA than if he hasn't made it back yet.
Being a Returner (one who returns the flag) myself, I don't really know much about capping, when when push comes to shove I can hold my own pretty well. There are some amazing cappers in this game (S/O CTF) and playing in JA is a breeze for them. The bottom line is that S/O CTF was one of the most popular competetive communities (we had a sponsored tournament just a month ago while other people had tossed their game in the box labelled "Useless crap"), and all of us who were hoping for that competetivness in the sequel to the game got canned. We aren't just going to pack up and move to a new gametype, it doesn't work that way. We're trying to balance our gametype so we can play with the same balance and fun you all have.
do you know "stafe jump" move?
Originally posted by the weiner dog!
But as I said and now stand corrected, you do not play 1.03, you do not play 1.04 and you DO NOT EVEN OWN JEDI ACADEMY so please leave.
You have nothing at all to contribute to this thread because you have no idea at all about the things we are discussing.
You know what? ill leave this thread, cause people like you be the most useless players ever, and you make me sick.
CTF in jedimaster level just sucked, because of all you have said.
Change the regen time to slow, and choose less force points, and there you have a more competitive ctf game.
And if you cant kill the capper in one hit, well them make it two.
and speed+absorb+jump+sense? ohh, and protect?lol, are you kiding me?
If they play in team, well then play in team you too.
Find a team solution.
Peace i am out.
Side it's ok we all know you Frenchy’s talk funny.
;)
But he's (and myth) right.
You guys have to keep in mind that the goal is to kill a 90 mph moving target that can leap 100 feet into the air and will be constantly healed and energized by his team mates so he's going to almost always have 100 hp and full force.
To kill said target you must first and foremost, stop his movement.
grip is not an option due to 99.9% of cappers using absorb (and even the dark cappers now can not be gripped and held/slashed by team mates because of the new grip nerf on the line of sight).
push/pull can slow him at times but keep in mind he gets 20 force from each pull so when you run out he's going to have a full force bar and his speed level 3 is going to make him go bye bye right after your final pull (and now depleted force pool).
Kick is not an option because of how slow and restrictive they are with staff kicks.
Guy is camping at the bridge, uh oh he's going to do just like in JK2.. Whap and I get drilled and fall and lose the flag.
lol no wait he ran at me, stopped dead in his tracks and stuck his foot out...
lol later
zoooom
/back to base
Capper from other team does the same.
Now enter 20 minute stalemate.
Vegeta is what we call a noob :D
Originally posted by AxVegetA
You know what? ill leave this thread, cause people like you be the most useless players ever, and you make me sick.
CTF in jedimaster level just sucked, because of all you have said.
Change the regen time to slow, and choose less force points, and there you have a more competitive ctf game.
And if you cant kill the capper in one hit, well them make it two.
and speed+absorb+jump+sense? ohh, and protect?lol, are you kiding me?
If they play in team, well then play in team you too.
Find a team solution.
Peace i am out.
lol "slow" is this thing called "default"...
heh got to love these guys.
:rolleyes:
anyways later and have a good evening.
Screed is what we call a claned noob nerd faggot with mental disorder :D
Originally posted by the weiner dog!
Umm no offense dude but here is a tip to all Lucas Forum members.
Full Force Saber only is the #1 game type in competitive play and has always been.
I'm sorry if I come across as trite or condescending.. but being a casual gamer I'd like to voice my opinion on any kind of MP changes that people are wanting.
Full Force Saber only is the #1 game type in competitive play and has always been.
Hint to the hordes of competitive players on the forums, it's not our (the casual gamer's) concern. The largest consumer group of games.. normally when a minority of gamers aren't fully satisfied with the gameplay they are getting from a particular game, they create their own version. I know this thread is suppose to be recommendations for improvements for the MP aspect of the game (and as I can tell S/O CTF mainly).. So I would recommend you gather all the players that are capable of making a mod, and make one kick ass S/O CTF mod. Cause in reality, like one poster said, you're not likely to get such a fix from Raven, and that's my humble opinion.
Sidebar - I'm hoping for a good mod community with JA, so we all can get what we want out of JA, albeit competitive or casual.
You lied Vegeta, you said you were leaving :mad:
Originally posted by fk | screed
You lied Vegeta, you said you were leaving :mad:
wtf what a lamer
Originally posted by Re\/aN
Hint to the hordes of competitive players on the forums, it's not our (the casual gamer's) concern. The largest consumer group of games.. normally when a minority of gamers aren't fully satisfied with the gameplay they are getting from a particular game, they create their own version. I know this thread is suppose to be recommendations for improvements for the MP aspect of the game (and as I can tell S/O CTF mainly).. So I would recommend you gather all the players that are capable of making a mod, and make one kick ass S/O CTF mod. Cause in reality, like one poster said, you're not likely to get such a fix from Raven, and that's my humble opinion.
Sidebar - I'm hoping for a good mod community with JA, so we all can get what we want out of JA, albeit competitive or casual.
League dont accept mod
Originally posted by Re\/aN
I'm sorry if I come across as trite or condescending.. but being a casual gamer I'd like to voice my opinion on any kind of MP changes that people are wanting.
Full Force Saber only is the #1 game type in competitive play and has always been.
Hint to the hordes of competitive players on the forums, it's not our (the casual gamer's) concern. The largest consumer group of games.. normally when a minority of gamers aren't fully satisfied with the gameplay they are getting from a particular game, they create their own version. I know this thread is suppose to be recommendations for improvements for the MP aspect of the game (and as I can tell S/O CTF mainly).. So I would recommend you gather all the players that are capable of making a mod, and make one kick ass S/O CTF mod. Cause in reality, like one poster said, you're not likely to get such a fix from Raven, and that's my humble opinion.
Sidebar - I'm hoping for a good mod community with JA, so we all can get what we want out of JA, albeit competitive or casual.
Agreed to a degree but keep in mind guys, we paid money just like you did.
I am also all for making a better game for all parties concerned.
When the gunners complain about the delay for the sniper rifle zoom do you see me saying "Who cares what you think, this game is supposed to be focused on sabers so your opinion does not count"?
Of course not.
Same goes for the things put in for the casual gamer.
Personally I think the duel emotes are about as fruity and stupid as a game can get but I'm not going to demand they be removed.
Really if you are a casual gamer, how will these changes affect you?
They won’t.
Software companies make patches for one reason and one reason only.
To make the people who play their games happy and make them want to come back and spend more money on the sequels.
Pure and simple.
And while there was a large number of Jedi Knight Players who bought Jedi Outcast simply because it was the next in the series, a lot of people bought it on word of mouth and based on all of the stellar reviews it was getting because of it's fresh and innovative game play.
Jedi Academy however, was sold 99% on the name and reputation of Jedi Outcast.
You tell a very large portion of those customers to "piss off, play this and like it" and you're only going to drive the sales potential for the next game in the series down even further.
Take a look at Quake 3.
They did a lot of patches but a few were just horrible. It totally messed up the balance and game play.
Now id could have taken the “oh well” road but they listened to their player base, gave their *customers what they wanted and I guarantee you those happy people will be supporting their games for a long time to come.
But let me ask you people this.
If these changes will not effect the casual gamer then why are you so opposed to making them to keep a large customer base (and keep the community bigger and thriving for a long time to come after the initial sale frenzy on launch) around?
Originally posted by Side
League dont accept mod
Perhaps it's the league that should be lobbied for changes then. :ang2:
1 question: why do the casual gamers care if kick and the moves we need are put back into the game. why do they care if the force restrictions are taken out of the game so that s/o ctf is playable again. casual gamers shouldnt give a sht. they dont play this game like us. they dont try in this game like us. they just fck around and swing the saber and are happy that they make sparks and sht. let the competitive players have what we need to play competively. the casual gamers will be happy with whatever. its not like they try to win or anything. they just put the wookie skin on and choose their dual saber and chat with friends while emoting.
Originally posted by AxVegetA
Screed is what we call a claned noob nerd faggot with mental disorder :D
http://www.ascendancy.net/tribalwar/Troll.jpg)
Originally posted by noide
1 question: why do the casual gamers care if kick and the moves we need are put back into the game. why do they care if the force restrictions are taken out of the game so that s/o ctf is playable again. casual gamers shouldnt give a sht. they dont play this game like us. they dont try in this game like us. they just fck around and swing the saber and are happy that they make sparks and sht. let the competitive players have what we need to play competively. the casual gamers will be happy with whatever. its not like they try to win or anything. they just put the wookie skin on and choose their dual saber and chat with friends while emoting.
not the way I would word it, but 100% on the mark true.
there are so many posts about either leaving the game alone or making a mod.
I can't say much to the parties that believe the game should never be touched, other than I'm a selfish bastard who enjoys making pointless efforts to change the game in my favor, even if it effects hundreds of others' enjoyment.
However, in this case, i'm not even about promoting a game change that would effect everyone. I just want something that caters to small group of theoretically undeserving, pathetic whiners like myself. In the end, I'm doing the same as anyone else would if JA had proven unsatisfactory in other areas.
Mods will not solve the problem. This method has been tried, tested, and as I've said before, proven false. Let me give you a small list of mods that added no bells and whistles, and merely attempted to improve game play:
JK2++ : An alternative view on how gameplay mechanics should be for JO. IT was done primarily for those disastisfied with CTF, and the backstab phenomenon. This was probably one of the first server side mods that actually introduced lethal, one hit two hit kill sabers, and force power tweaks, like giving people more ability to use speed and jump. While many fans were happy, the pro community was not, and no one ever accepted it. Plus, leagues apparently don't allow mods like that.
Promod: Another alternative to the saber debate. This one created sabers that were about two to three hits, excluding getting nailed by the red stance chop, etc. Also was the only mod out there that actually changed the blocking system. Although it was 'lag dependent' as some critics would call it, Promod blocking was actually quite accurate so long as you had a reasonable ping. I can attest to this. I would have called myself one of the primary players of that mod.
Anyway, I'm sure there were other things out there, like that X mod I keep reading about. The bottom line is that despite good intentions and great ideas, no vast group was willing to accept it. either people were just too stubborn to leave JK 1.04, always insisting that they 'liked' it (or they really did, whatever), or they just weren't into downloading mods and thought everything was another Jedimod. Mods won't work. Raven is the key. That's it. Raven.
Or... someone can find this magical method to stopping an FC from being nearly invincible in S/O CTF play. Either will do.
Ok about that sniper scope deal, I can understand the delay of the scope IF the charge up was a little faster, but as it stands the delay of engaging/disengaging the scope + the charge up delay is just to time consuming.:D
Originally posted by the weiner dog!
-- too big for a full quote.. :)
Well said. I commend your resolve and ability to state your point. These are usually touchy subjects, cause your always going to have party A, that wants things a certain way and party B, that would like thing to stay as is.. Hard to please everybody. I liked the idea of a server-side option, but as far as making certain power moves easier to spam or kicks that is usually abused in other game types, that will affect all gamers, then I say negative. If the changes you are wanting only affect the people wanting the changes then I have no problem what so ever, but when you change something that for the most part is fine, just because of one game type being crippled, then that is not a good reason. IMHO
btw screed ur whole bag of M&Ms have to be purple..haha
Originally posted by [div3rse.jello]
btw screed ur whole bag of M&Ms have to be purple..haha
BLAST! I was hoping to quit tonight. :(
k so far we got 2 dark force power totaly useless
Dark rage,Grip....
Dark rage is so useless cuz of move costing force+u dont get any speed bonus with speed on and grip...WHAT THE POINT OF GRIP IN JKA!u get to watch the guy gettin choked that all....wow
Originally posted by Side
grip...WHAT THE POINT OF GRIP IN JKA!u get to watch the guy gettin choked that all....wow
Throw you saber at him when he's in the air? If you have level 3 grip, you can ram him into walls and throw him about 100 feet in the air, or you can just hold them over a pit and they can't do anything about it, if they force push or absorb they fall to their death.
Flip kick like in JO:
This will take me 5mins to add back into the game, and another 1 to declare a cvar so it can be enabled/disabled.
Force Requirements/Cost of all moves:
I can cvar both of these for each move in 5-10 mins.
Admin commands that arn't retarded:
I've already coded all of these and I'm ready to port them into JA.
Making grip not lame:
5mins to seek and destroy a stupid Line of Sight If statement and then cvar it.
So I guess what I'm saying is Raven/LA should give me a job or release the SDK so I can fix my server!
Hex I wuv you! Im sure the rest of the competitive community of FF S/O CTF loves you too!:D
Also tell Battousai I said Hi!
All I have to say is this:
Hex, you are god. If I were a woman, I'd have your babies.
OH, and AxVegeta, you say since you've never heard of div3rse we're not big...but keep in mind that div3rse has been around since the release of 1.03...but if you had quit last febuary, you'd be around since 1.04...and div3rse was rather large even then, so...anyone else wanna call shannanigans [/South Park Reference]?
Originally posted by [div3rse.syn]
but keep in mind that div3rse has been around since the release of 1.03...but if you had quit last febuary, you'd be around since 1.04...[/South Park Reference]?
since 1.2 actualy
(off topic but oh well)
and jarjar grip might be useful in TFFA and FFA but in s/o CTF and FF duel it aint worth ****
i seriously doubt u gonna kill a FC with absorb on
and in FF ur only gonna deal a few dmg and ur foe just gonna drain back his health
my bad side. I've only been around since 1.04 :D
Oh and screed...div3rse is the clan that beat FK a month or 2 ago :eek: Don't tell fallen that though, he doesn't seem to want to hear it :eek:
oh, and please note that the previous post was made fully as something playful, not insulting.
Originally posted by Side
since 1.2 actualy
(off topic but oh well)
and jarjar grip might be useful in TFFA and FFA but in s/o CTF and FF duel it aint worth ****
i seriously doubt u gonna kill a FC with absorb on
and in FF ur only gonna deal a few dmg and ur foe just gonna drain back his health
Actually if you team up with another darksider and 1 drain whores em so he has no force (pending theres no energizer with the FC) the other dark sider can grip kick him killing him pretty quickly.
Oh and screed...div3rse is the clan that beat FK a month or 2 ago Don't tell fallen that though, he doesn't seem to want to hear it
You only won cause' I wasnt there :p
lol he's kiddin syn
and a ton of jello for hex
HEX FOR PRESIDENT
sorry shaft
Originally posted by fk | screed
Actually if you team up with another darksider and 1 drain whores em so he has no force (pending theres no energizer with the FC) the other dark sider can grip kick him killing him pretty quickly.
(no offense on this post)
that would only work vs newbies any good team would get someone energizing the FC
you're assuming you get the drain past the absorb...and even then...you hold grip down and I guarentee absorb will be able to turn on...which = full force...so the FC is now gone.
Like I said before, I'm not happy about a software company dumping the job of fixing their games on the shoulders of the mod community but if this is what it takes then so be it.
But I will say it's nice to actually have people who are willing to devote their time into helping the community.
So again, thanks Hex for all the work.
It really is appreciated by more people than just the CTF guys.
I'm also glad that Hex is putting the options to enable/disable certain game play dynamics like the retail release should have done.
My only suggestion to Hex would be although =X= is mainly a saber only clan, lend an ear to the gunners of Jedi Academy because I don't want to see them left out in the cold by the developers either.
they have some issues with things like the sniper zoom delay that is screwing up game play and I doubt they are going to get any different treatment than the silent treatment we have gotten as well (from official sources).
So far I've done my best to collect a team of programmers that I thought could lend a hand in the production of the new mod. Unlike my JO work this will be open source and under development by more then one programmer. We plan to bring things like JA IRC server bots (to relay chat rcon etc), trillian server listings, server side stat tracking, and of course all the rest of the time will be devoted to anything else the community requested.
It has been common practice for me to make all changes an option in my mods. In fact you can run a JO server with xmod on it as if it were a base game (aside from the xmod centerscreen on connect). I will be doing the same and welcome the help of the entire community. If you are interested in helping with the project contact me via something (email, icq, aim, msn, yim, something) with a brief description of what you could do to assist us.
Thanks for the complements guys, but I really don't see myself as a superman or anything. Just another JK junkie server admin looking to help out where he can.
I would love to help out Hex, but I know very little about programming and the such. If you need a guinea pig im your man! :D
awsome...i wish i knew programing **** but il try to ask around if they could help
I agree that JA's S/O CTF (if you can even find a server running it) is lame.
I hate to say this because it makes me feel like I'm whining but "back in the day" catching a runner was a matter of timing your bunny hops for better acceleration and top speed. Now every nub can bunny hop as well as I can (since the timing bracket is so decreased, at least from what I can tell), so you have to resort to owning them with dfa around the corner. Which is an old skool and awesome tactic, but no longer really viable. I mean, I can still pull it off because I never used (and still don't use) Force Seeing in conjunction with it. But if I did, the drain on my Force bar would mean after I missed (heh) I'd be totally useless as a returner. Which is garbage.
My biggest issue with JA so far is that each saber style seems to dominate a particular type of game. Single saber still rules the duel school, while dual-saber lays the smack down in FFA and double-saber is the obvious winniner in CTF. That's lame. If I want to use dual-sabers in CTF and still be effectively, I freaking should be able to. Heck, I don't use Throw Lightsaber anyway, why the hell can't I kick with alt fire (even THAT would be something)?
As far as old-skool flipkicking, anyone who played comp-level S/O CTF learned how to kick. The two best kickers were easily =X='s Idiot Savant and fk's Mega Death, but most everyone who played could do it well. I know I pulled off a lot of kicks that demanded timing and precision and almost always resulted in a dead FC. I logged into JK2 the other night, jumped on the div server and proceeded to once again own the nubs (btw who the hell are you people?) on the server with flying pull-kicks on their absorb.
The kicks in JA are lame and nubly. If I kick someone, the chance I can capitalize on their knockdown is so ridiculously slim, especially considering how ungainly the double-saber is. I wouldn't even mind if the kick did 0 damage. As long as I could throw people and then capitalize, it's all good.
I know it annoys nubs when someone who is a comp-level player is thrashing them with superior skills, but that's going to happen. There's always someone better and people who just "play for fun" tend to be at the bottom of the ladder. Catering to them is rather silly. Would you cater a gourmet dining experience to the bacteria on the plates? Doubtful.
Of course, I understand part of the problem. A lot of the skilled multiplayer players didn't actually (and in a lot of cases still have yet to) buy a copy of the game. But it doesn't make the opinion of those of us who did any less valid.
Lightsabers effectively suck in JA. It's a good thing I've learned how to fire the Tenloss rifle with this one second prep-to-fire garbage. It's called "look for saber, shoot guy with saber while he's in the middle of a kata."
Oh and for the sake of all that's holy, what the heck's with the standing shock still while executing high-difficulty moves in MP? They work freaking right in single player! Hex, can you address this? I'd love to be able to use a kata in multiplayer since it's so cool to look at, and actually dying to one would make you feel so nubly.
Know it. Love it. Want it: teh notorious a.r.d.
Originally posted by Rumor
velocity kicks = not possible with staff kick
kicking on the move = not possible on anyone that is moving and has half a brain
flip kicks require you to jump and usually involve using push/pull to get the kickee to come within range and stun them. pull kicking wtih the staff = not possible. Thanks Rumor. I see what your saying. But if a FC is using absorb, aren't you unable to pull them anyways?
Originally posted by noide
1 question: why do the casual gamers care if kick and the moves we need are put back into the game. why do they care if the force restrictions are taken out of the game so that s/o ctf is playable again. casual gamers shouldnt give a sht. they dont play this game like us. they dont try in this game like us. they just fck around and swing the saber and are happy that they make sparks and sht. let the competitive players have what we need to play competively. the casual gamers will be happy with whatever. its not like they try to win or anything. they just put the wookie skin on and choose their dual saber and chat with friends while emoting. Casual gamers do care about winning and losing, just not to the extreme extent that competative players do. We are not satisfied with just "fcking around and swing the saber and are happy that they make sparks and sht." When I play, I try to defeat my opponants and try to score enough to get near the top of the board. That is what the point of the game is, to try and get more kills/points than the other players. I don't get upset if I don't come in first, but I am disappointed if I end up last. I'll even go to the extent of trying to get better at the game by practicing a little bit. Basically, the casual gamer looks to play each gametype as it was intended, and try to achieve the goals specified.
Up to that point, casual gamers and competative players are about the same, apart from how strong the desire to win is. Where the difference comes in is how we want to be able to achieve the goals set by the gametype. The casual gamer wants to have weapons that reflect what has been seen in the Star Wars movies and books. We want a game the to some extent represents the universe that we are supposed to be playing in. This more or less means lightsabers and blasters, etc. The thing that made flipkicks so unpopular with casual gamers was not that there were kicks at all. On the contrary, most casual gamers would agree kicks definitely have their place along side the other weapons, and that it certainly fits in the Star Wars mythos (thus the popularity of staff kicks). Where the problems arose as far as we were concerned was with the implementation. I think the biggest issues were that the damage went right through to health and that you weren't open to attack in the middle of the kick, that you could defend against another saber but not against a kick (apart from getting ut of the way), and to a lesser extent because of how it looked (not like a kick). But ultimately, it was because kick was a more potent weapon than the lightsaber. This does not reflect what the lightsaber is supposed to represent potency-wise.
Speaking more or less for casual gamers, I do not want to see flipkicks return part and parcel as they were in JO, for the above reasons. I would be much more open to a solution to improve gameplay either through changes to improve the lightsaber, or improving the lightsaber and adding a more "accurate" form of kick. As for improving gameplay, I don't think too many casual gamers would get too upset if the changes were an improvement from an effectiveness standpoint, and fit into the universe the game is supposed to represent.
What you are confusing casual gamers with above is RPG players. From what I have seen, RPGers do not want to play the gametypes at all. They want to use the game to do things totally alien to what the game was designed to play like. I suspect you might be right is saying they may be happy with just sparks and swinging their sabers (although they don't seem to use their sabers at all anyway). In the RPG thread that has just started up, it appears that many are interested in "pretending" that their characters have nothing to do with Jedi at all. This attitude is very different from your normal casual gamer.
So in a nutshell:
Competative JO/JA gamer: Wants to win by any means necessary, regardless of any basis for his "tools" in Star Wars.
Casual JO/JA gamer: Wants to win, but wants his tools to reflect what is in the Star Wars universe. Because of this, we are not fond of kick as it was implemented in JO.
RPG JO/JA gamer: Wants everything to be exactly as it is in Star Wars, regardless of whether it makes a balanced game. This is because they don't play the game at all, and so balance issues don't matter to them.
I still believe that if a alteration in gameplay is really necessary that it is possible to have a solution that will satisfy both competative and casual gamers. Flaming aside, I think competative players are meeting resistence from casual players because bringing the old kick back does not satisfy both parties. Some competative players might not care a lick what casual gamers want (and vice versa) but I think we have a right to be happy about JA too. :)
pulling and pushing still stuns them (just doesn't score a knockdown), but you have to be very precise or you will just give them more force and they will get away. someone post the demo called "kicking goodness" that has idiot savant defending the flag in ff/so ctf.
well another difference about *MOST casual gamers/rpgers is they have an extremely large e-ego and if they get fragged it seems like the end of the world to them. that i just don't get.
competitive players get fragged? so what, they go back and try again instead of bitching about it.
Originally posted by Prime
Thanks Rumor. I see what your saying. But if a FC is using absorb, aren't you unable to pull them anyways?
They still stop moving briefly with Absorb. They just don't get pulled towards you or pushed away. It's easy to nail a sitting duck of a target. I'm more than willing to come show you in JO if you want, Prime. Or maybe Grinteh has some demos of me...hm...
Casual gamers do care about winning and losing, just not to the extreme extent that competative players do. We are not satisfied with just "fcking around and swing the saber and are happy that they make sparks and sht." When I play, I try to defeat my opponants and try to score enough to get near the top of the board. That is what the point of the game is, to try and get more kills/points than the other players. I don't get upset if I don't come in first, but I am disappointed if I end up last. I'll even go to the extent of trying to get better at the game by practicing a little bit. Basically, the casual gamer looks to play each gametype as it was intended, and try to achieve the goals specified.
Nah, the true casual gamer is all about exploring the game for interesting stuff, not really playing competitively. It's silly to try. Those of us who do play competitively usually have a lot more practice under our belts. Most casual players don't even look beyond duel for long. Although Siege is very popular, I'll admit. But mostly with competitive players.
Up to that point, casual gamers and competative players are about the same, apart from how strong the desire to win is. Where the difference comes in is how we want to be able to achieve the goals set by the gametype. The casual gamer wants to have weapons that reflect what has been seen in the Star Wars movies and books. We want a game the to some extent represents the universe that we are supposed to be playing in. This more or less means lightsabers and blasters, etc.
And that's certainly played up in the single player mode. You have to pick and choose your weapons and all that fun stuff.
The thing that made flipkicks so unpopular with casual gamers was not that there were kicks at all. On the contrary, most casual gamers would agree kicks definitely have their place along side the other weapons, and that it certainly fits in the Star Wars mythos (thus the popularity of staff kicks). Where the problems arose as far as we were concerned was with the implementation.
Nobody in their right mind would say kicking is or was at any point perfect, but removing it entirely except for the lame staff kicks wasn't the right answer. Making it a Force skill...that might have been the answer.
I think the biggest issues were that the damage went right through to health and that you weren't open to attack in the middle of the kick, that you could defend against another saber but not against a kick (apart from getting ut of the way), and to a lesser extent because of how it looked (not like a kick). But ultimately, it was because kick was a more potent weapon than the lightsaber. This does not reflect what the lightsaber is supposed to represent potency-wise.
Kicking took some degree of skill, especially in a kick-fight. In a saber fight, the skill was mostly relegated to who could land a couple of strong hits (and knowing the saber tricks usually didn't help much).
Speaking more or less for casual gamers, I do not want to see flipkicks return part and parcel as they were in JO, for the above reasons. I would be much more open to a solution to improve gameplay either through changes to improve the lightsaber, or improving the lightsaber and adding a more "accurate" form of kick.
Most of the guys who want kick back wouldn't mind a smaller hitbox kick. It'd just mean a wider gap between the practiced and the "unpracticed," however.
As for improving gameplay, I don't think too many casual gamers would get too upset if the changes were an improvement from an effectiveness standpoint, and fit into the universe the game is supposed to represent.
Well, for all intents and purposes, Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy are barely scraping by as a non-Infinities entity. Possibly only because of the popularity of the Dark Forces brand name and Kyle Katarn.
What you are confusing casual gamers with above is RPG players. From what I have seen, RPGers do not want to play the gametypes at all. They want to use the game to do things totally alien to what the game was designed to play like.
It's hard to differentiate one type of terrible player from another, usually. They're both dead before you have time to ponder it, and some more fodder is usually heading your way.
I suspect you might be right is saying they may be happy with just sparks and swinging their sabers (although they don't seem to use their sabers at all anyway). In the RPG thread that has just started up, it appears that many are interested in "pretending" that their characters have nothing to do with Jedi at all. This attitude is very different from your normal casual gamer.
Is it? RPGs are a major market-share of computer gaming. Major. Heck, even LucasArts produced one. That's saying something. Ten years ago, "back in the day" you had two options: Dragon Warrior or Final Fantasy. Or maybe if you were old skool you had Crystalis or Zelda or something. But most of the time, it was Dragon Warrior or Final Fantasy. Now, there are literally dozens of RPG titles to choose from. You can't say that an RPGer is "different from a normal casual gamer" because they ARE the normal casual gamers. Maybe casual FPS players are different, though.
Competative JO/JA gamer: Wants to win by any means necessary, regardless of any basis for his "tools" in Star Wars.
And we will, whether or not Raven wants to do the patch work themselves. Hex has already proven he can do better work than they can (just loadup xmod for JO, it's pretty clear it's about 4x better than standard JO).
Casual JO/JA gamer: Wants to win, but wants his tools to reflect what is in the Star Wars universe. Because of this, we are not fond of kick as it was implemented in JO.
Why would the casual gamer care? He's a casual gamer. If it's not exactly perfect, would he even know? I doubt it. Nobody seems to mind the fact that you can run on the walls (which isn't something we see in the Star Wars universe outside of Dark Forces). Nobody seems to mind that they can flip off walls (again, unique to DF). Why should one more little thing matter? It shouldn't.
RPG JO/JA gamer: Wants everything to be exactly as it is in Star Wars, regardless of whether it makes a balanced game. This is because they don't play the game at all, and so balance issues don't matter to them.
That's hardly true either. A knowledgable RPGer would know the second you try to make your mark on Star Wars is the second it ceases to be "as it is." I'm sure balance issues matter to enough of them that they might complain, but they're not a very vocal group on a whole.
I still believe that if a alteration in gameplay is really necessary that it is possible to have a solution that will satisfy both competative and casual gamers.
Doubtful. It's like a car company saying "Our Super Sport car will satisfy both casual and competitive drivers." Yeah, for all twenty seconds it takes that competitive driver to get under the hood and start boring the engine block, replacing air filters, stripping and placing a new exhaust system...a competitive person wants more. Period.
Flaming aside, I think competative players are meeting resistence from casual players because bringing the old kick back does not satisfy both parties. Some competative players might not care a lick what casual gamers want (and vice versa) but I think we have a right to be happy about JA too. :)
Be happy right now. Don't patch. Problem solved, right? I mean, that's what happened in JO. Everyone played the patch they liked the results of. That worked out fine. I mean, we've got the sequel don't we?
However, you're obviously not a "typical casual gamer" so in the future, don't attempt to pass yourself off as such. It's a poor attempt to insult our intelligence. Just represent your opinion and nothing more.
First off... The only way to satisfy all parties is to give them each settings that can be changed the way THEY like it. This will draw competitive players to servers where there are not 20min standoffs between teams or duelists... RPG and fanboys to servers with flashy saber fights and emotes... and the casual gamer to all of the above.
Second, there is no need to throw punches in a forum over these issues. It seems right now that the FF/SO CTF community is a little upset on the baseja. It also seems that there is a growing number of people complaining about default hit detection and saber damage.
On another note I sort of looked into how blocking works a bit in JA and why people are complaining that they arn't blocking. If you notice there is a large bug in saber blocking on an idle character. As far as I can tell if you stand at a certain distance the blocking character won't even respons to attacks. There is also issues with hit detection on characters ducking. Major issues that should be looked into in the next version.
Originally posted by =X=Master HeX
First off... The only way to satisfy all parties is to give them each settings that can be changed the way THEY like it. This will draw competitive players to servers where there are not 20min standoffs between teams or duelists... RPG and fanboys to servers with flashy saber fights and emotes... and the casual gamer to all of the above.
Second, there is no need to throw punches in a forum over these issues. It seems right now that the FF/SO CTF community is a little upset on the baseja. It also seems that there is a growing number of people complaining about default hit detection and saber damage.
On another note I sort of looked into how blocking works a bit in JA and why people are complaining that they arn't blocking. If you notice there is a large bug in saber blocking on an idle character. As far as I can tell if you stand at a certain distance the blocking character won't even respons to attacks. There is also issues with hit detection on characters ducking. Major issues that should be looked into in the next version.
Just curious but does ghoul2 make any difference in your tests?
Actually is it even ghoul2 this time around or something new?
Reason I ask is back in Jedi Outcast it had some interesting results (to say the least) when enabled.
I believe it's totally ghoul2 related. It's poor code that causes your saber to pass through someone without doing any damage. Same reason why if someone ducks and swings they don't end up headless if you pass a red swing through their head. It needs work, which we should see in the next patch or two.
Um...I hate to say it...but I kinda like MP in JKA. I totally agree with Weiner Dog here, but there is a simple solution:
MODDERS, YOUR TIME IS NOW!!
Seriously, if we get some good mods up in here to make the game a little more like JKII in terms of damage and insta-kill moves, but keep the new stances, maps, player models, and other great things in JKA, we could be looking at a GREAT MP experience. Unfortunately...I cant mod. At all. Period. I tried once...but ended up screwing my JKII file so much that i had to re-install the game...so perhaps some pro modders should take this one :D If modders can make great mods like ForceModII and JediMod, then why not JKA? And if THAT doesnt work...at least we all still have our copies of JKII :p
:duel: